The race to make top four 2023/24 edition

Justin Cider said:
It used to be trying to explain the rules of cricket was the hardest thing when somebody showed a passing interest(usually after a few pints in the pub), but now it's trying to explain why the team that finished 4th in Serie 'A' the previous season, was playing a team from the Premier League who finished 3rd the previous season are meeting in the Champions League.

It needs a rebrand, I don't know something like the European Cup might work ....

The third team dropping down is a nonsense(but that will have been driven by the cubs), but if they do the best 3rd place teams continues in the Champions League it would not only give the teams a 2nd chance it would make the groups more interesting as every match would have something hanging on it ....

The recent AFCoN was insane because of the best 3rd place teams having a chance to progress, the eventual winners the Ivory Coast finished 3rd in their group and even managed to get beat 4-0 along the way, but nobody can say they didn't deserve to win it, well maybe a few million Nigerians ....

And on seeding, I think they should do away with it all together, or just seed clubs who were Champions in their respective Leagues the season before to keep them apart in the early phases.

As I've said Spurs and Villa will be fine if they finish 5th,
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I mean you can never explain the name bit like "The World Series" in baseball it doesn't make literal sense but you just have to accept it. They should actually call the new version the UEFA Premier Cup.

I think the drop down was done to try and give the europa league a bit more glamour for the knockout rounds. I personally think it cheapens the competition as we lets face it those who drop down don't take it seriously.

The seedings are better now as the top seed teams are all league winners plus the current holders and europa league winners. That actually makes sense.
 
jsp said:
I mean you can never explain the name bit like "The World Series" in baseball it doesn't make literal sense but you just have to accept it. They should actually call the new version the UEFA Premier Cup.

I think the drop down was done to try and give the europa league a bit more glamour for the knockout rounds. I personally think it cheapens the competition as we lets face it those who drop down don't take it seriously.

The seedings are better now as the top seed teams are all league winners plus the current holders and europa league winners. That actually makes sense.
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Was it that? There's still some big name clubs in the Europa League, similarly in the Europa Conference League. Every team, or nearly every team that makes the round of 16 in the Europa League this season would not look out of place(club history, trophies etc etc) in the last 16 of the Champions League in any given season, and the teams that make the QF's in the Europa Conference League will all be well known around Europe with a tradition of winning trophies in their own country. The way some people talk you'd think the Europa Conference League is made up of clubs like Accrington Stanley and Stenhousemuir ....
 
Justin Cider said:
Was it that? There's still some big name clubs in the Europa League, similarly in the Europa Conference League. Every team, or nearly every team that makes the round of 16 in the Europa League this season would not look out of place(club history, trophies etc etc) in the last 16 of the Champions League in any given season, and the teams that make the QF's in the Europa Conference League will all be well known around Europe with a tradition of winning trophies in their own country. The way some people talk you'd think the Europa Conference League is made up of clubs like Accrington Stanley and Stenhousemuir ....
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Yeah I think that was the desire as it came in when they re-launched the UEFA Cup as the Europa League. They wanted big sides in it to help sell the TV rights the only way of doing that was this drop down idea.

Last 16 isn't set yet in Europe currently it's last 24 there's 8 group winners already into the second round. The 8 runners up in the europa group are currently playing the 8 3rd place champions league sides.
 
jsp said:
Yeah I think that was the desire as it came in when they re-launched the UEFA Cup as the Europa League. They wanted big sides in it to help sell the TV rights the only way of doing that was this drop down idea.

Last 16 isn't set yet in Europe currently it's last 24 there's 8 group winners already into the second round. The 8 runners up in the europa group are currently playing the 8 3rd place champions league sides.
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Hell of a gamble as we know certain clubs who if they can't qualify in the top two will want to give the Europa a swerve, not sure the TV companies will be wanting to cough up more if Grasshoppers Zurich, Ujpest Dosza and the like drop down.
 
Justin Cider said:
Hell of a gamble as we know certain clubs who if they can't qualify in the top two will want to give the Europa a swerve, not sure the TV companies will be wanting to cough up more if Grasshoppers Zurich, Ujpest Dosza and the like drop down.
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Not sure any club really think like that.

Very rarely are both qualification spots sorted before the final game in the group stage so you still have to go for it in the final game.

Being in Europe in some form is always better than not being in it even if I think this season it is actually a bit of a blessing for us with all the change going on.
 
jsp said:
Not sure any club really think like that.

Very rarely are both qualification spots sorted before the final game in the group stage so you still have to go for it in the final game.

Being in Europe in some form is always better than not being in it even if I think this season it is actually a bit of a blessing for us with all the change going on.
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There are still some groups where it is obvious who will finish in the top two after two games, and the last 4 games are to decide who finishes top, and it's often the other two teams say no after you Claude for a Europa League place, more so for the less glamorous sides if they are competitive in their own League. Very few clubs can compete on two fronts, just the way it is.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
What could have been if not for late goals for Villa and Spurs.
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Pretty certain nothing. This isn't a week we would have gained on them. Now it's going to be a week we lose even more ground. I still think we can catch Spurs, but it's over catching Villa.
 
Don’t see us catching either of them damage was done in the first half of the season.

That Villa goal was a bit of a killer as Luton had battled back and had them on the ropes but Emery made 4 subs all in 1 go and it took the momentum away from Luton.
 
jsp said:
Don’t see us catching either of them damage was done in the first half of the season.

That Villa goal was a bit of a killer as Luton had battled back and had them on the ropes but Emery made 4 subs all in 1 go and it took the momentum away from Luton.
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Luton have been having a real go, I've seen some very entertaining games at Kenilworth this season. I hope they manage to stay up, especially over dull Forest. They are so, meh.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Luton have been having a real go, I've seen some very entertaining games at Kenilworth this season. I hope they manage to stay up, especially over dull Forest. They are so, meh.
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Yeah my worry would be second season syndrome, remember Huddersfield upsetting a few teams in their first season and stayed up then getting massively found out in season two.

I would quite like to see Forest stay up but they look like a sinking ship
 
Sideshow Bob said:
So what result do we want between Villa v Spurs?
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Villa aren't catchable at this point barring a total meltdown, so I'd say a Villa win. Then hope we can get past spurs and pray that fifth spot qualifies us for the CL.
 
McGinn's challenge was a disgrace - he actually stayed on the pitch hoping for VAR to overturn the red. Disgusting stuff.
 
I saw it up to 2-0, Villa just imploded.

I do think teams are starting to work out that high line and wonder if the midweek game took a bit out of them.
 
Villa have a really tough run in.

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This is our final 10 games

Brentford a
Chelsea a
Liverpool h
Bournemouth a
Newcastle h
Burnley h
Palace a
Arsenal h
Brighton a

Sheff Utd h
 
Sorry Justin, but it isnt. No chance.

we are not good enough, we are dropping points in 5 of those games
 
I don't like the look of any of those games to be honest. The way we play, we could genuinely lose them all. Normally I would go through each teams games and award points based on what I think would happen, but it's impossible to do that right now. You could guess a few I suppose, like Arsenal and Liverpool, I don't see any points in them games for us, the rest it's up for debate with this team. Top four is gone though, the other two teams above us are more consistent and simply have more points.
 
Who was being negative I just posted our remaining fixtures.

Could do with Villa sticking in Europe for a few rounds those extra games add up.

70 points still feels to me like the minimum we need which is 23 points from 30 available.
 
Yep that's the sort of form the top 3 will be thinking will be enough to win the title.

We basically need the two teams above us to totally implode.

As for the 5th spot place West Ham losing to Freiburg and Brighton getting pumped by Roma last week didn't do us any favours.
 
jsp said:
Yep that's the sort of form the top 3 will be thinking will be enough to win the title.

We basically need the two teams above us to totally implode.

As for the 5th spot place West Ham losing to Freiburg and Brighton getting pumped by Roma last week didn't do us any favours.
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Imagine if Kanes goals keep Spurs out of Europe
 
We are so up and down that we could conceivably go a run and win three or four in a row but by the same token we could lose three or four! It’s hard to say whether we can get top four because of this consistency but wouldn’t rule it out.

Villa still have Europe to contend with and the pressure of chasing teams could get to them. They’ve done fantastically well all season but no doubt they have a blip in them.

Not sure we will catch Spurs to be honest but as fifth is a CL possibility, I do believe we can catch Villa.
 
Only bad news yesterday for Spurs was Van De Ven, looked like his hamstring went again but they've got a bit of cover for him now with the lad they signed in January.

Other than that they're basically back up to full strength and only have the league to focus on.

Had a look at the 5th place rankings currently.

1st Italy 16.571
2nd Germany 15.500
3rd England 14.625

In terms of this weeks games we need Arsenal to go through in the Champions League, we ideally need PSV to knock out Dortmund and we probably want both Italian sides to go through as that knocks Spain further back. Italy running away with first spot isn't really a problem.

Then for Europa we need West Ham to knock out Freiburg, Brighton are basically out and Liverpool are basically through. In the conference League we need Villa to knock out Ajax.
 
Mr C said:
Sorry Justin, but it isnt. No chance.

we are not good enough, we are dropping points in 5 of those games
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Oh well let's not bother trying then ....

Till that fat Lady clears her throat you just never know, football bloody hell ....
 
jsp said:
Who was being negative I just posted our remaining fixtures.

Could do with Villa sticking in Europe for a few rounds those extra games add up.

70 points still feels to me like the minimum we need which is 23 points from 30 available.
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Not everything is about you @jsp ;)

It's the thread in general, and if anything the remaining fixtures you so kindly provided gives me more hope that we can still achieve T4
 
Justin Cider said:
Not everything is about you @jsp ;)

It's the thread in general, and if anything the remaining fixtures you so kindly provided gives me more hope that we can still achieve T4
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How many points do you think we'll need to finish top 4?

I keep using 70 as a bench mark but at current pace Villa/Spurs are both on track for 74. I think they'll stumble a bit which is why I've said 70 to hit that Villa need 15 points from 30 and Spurs 17 from 33.

There's also the bloody goal difference which is basically an extra point for them unless Utd start handing out a few thumping's in those last 10. Reckon we need to put about 15 past sheffield utd to clear that deficit.
 

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