When will Mourinho be sacked?

Mr C said:
we know his agent has been trying to get him out as a fact. I'd assume his client knows about that.
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But isn't this a truism? I mean every agent wants their player to move because it means commission and dosh for them. That doesn't mean that Pogba has to have that at the forefront of his mind every time he talks to the press. He also might have not been thinking that much about what he was saying. He strikes me as quite a spontaneous guy who isn't always that calculating.
 
Don't forget, Raiola trying to get Pogba out started last season. Around the Jan transfer window I think he contacted City of all clubs. And as I said, he wouldn't do that without speaking to Pogba first.

Pogba also said this week (I think as I only read teh headline) he's found it hard to focus on football this season after the WC. I don't think Jose has done anything wrong by Pogba to be honest, a few other things but not by Pogba. That is all his own doing.
 
You "think" he contacted City? Sounds like you are not sure. It's possible of course. Anyway, in my job it's not wrong for me to look at what my possible options are if I'm not happy where I am. He said he's found it hard to focus on his football after the WC? You seem to be reading something into this. What if he's just being honest?

You also forget that Jose did criticise Pogba in public after the Wolves game. He angrily singled out his mistake in midfield and said nothing about his creation of our goal. He has consistently not allowed Pogba to be the player that he can be by restricting him in a way that he wasn't at Juve (mind you he's done that to most of the team) . Pogba then understandably reacts to Jose's attack with an angry counter attack and expresses what many United fans are feeling about his defensive football. This is certainly not his own doing.

Liam Brady pointed out recently that it has always been a bit of an unwritten rule that you keep criticisms in the dressing room and don't go public with it. It's unbelievable that this aspect of Jose's management slips so easily under people's radar. If that happened in my workplace there would be all sorts of tensions and my boss would be disciplined or sacked by his board. If the Pogba feud ends up being the demise of Jose then it will be Jose's doing.

Public criticisms of players is playing with fire and it's unnecessary. What did Jose think he was going to achieve by it anyway? :rolleyes:
 
I know they tried to get him into city, I THINK it was in February. If you think that’s fair enough then fair play to you. To me it shows how little respect they have for United and their fans.

Yes and he was honest about struggling, then don’t have a go at manager when your not trying your best. And for me, a top class player wouldn’t be struggling. All the best players win, then move on to the next challenge.
 
To get back to the thread, I think they’ll keep him until at least Christmas now. Hopefully they have turned a corner.
 
I struggle to believe Itsallinthemind wasn’t aware of Pogba trying to move to City to be honest. Every man and his dog knew. I think it’s a case of ignore what’s obvious make an argument out of what you can. If he isn’t willing to take what is public knowledge in to account it’s a pointless discussion.
 
You mention Liam Brady. But ignore Gary Neville. Who was more influential to Fergie and his success. Gary Neville points out the board and the players are the people to blame and says he likes Mourinho and wants him to stay. That doesn’t match your argument though so you go with Brady.
 
Neville has a history of backing managers. He continued to back Wenger until the end. I reckon most Arsenal fans are pleased how the team is progressing under the new manager.
 
To say he backed Wenger is just rewriting history and false. He praised Wengers sides he built whilst saying he’s no longer the same manager and needs to leave. He called the 2 year contract a smoke screen and said he wouldn’t see the contract out.
 
That article isn’t from last season it’s the season before. Last season Neville said numerous times Wenger has to go. Neville does back giving managers time but he also points the blame where he should and has a lot more knowledge on the workings of United than Liam Brady and knows when to call it a day as he did with Wenger last season. Like calling the 2 year contract Wenger got after the article you posted a smokescreen.
 
I mean we don’t know 100% but my guess is he’d quite like to move these are his peak years he’s just won the World Cup and he knows Utd are miles away from doing anything serious especially in Europe and I don’t think Utd is a nice place to be right now.

His agent doesn’t do things without his blessing that isn’t how it works he’s clearly told his agent see what’s out there and the reports are Barca would like him but don’t have the money to buy or pay him hence why they made us a stupid offer in the summer.

If Mourinho goes things might change but I don’t think it will mean Pogba stays for 5 years and becomes a legend he probably stays for this season maybe next then moves this lad is never going to hang around in one place for to long.
 
IDFD said:
That article isn’t from last season it’s the season before. Last season Neville said numerous times Wenger has to go. Neville does back giving managers time but he also points the blame where he should and has a lot more knowledge on the workings of United than Liam Brady and knows when to call it a day as he did with Wenger last season. Like calling the 2 year contract Wenger got after the article you posted a smokescreen.
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Neville has not said on numerous occasions that Wenger has to go. A quick google search would indicate he has never said Wenger should be sacked.

I don't understand the relevance of the smokescreen point?
 
A quick google of ‘Neville on Wenger’ was enough to provide plenty of evidence that Neville didn’t continuously back Wenger. I can only assume you don’t regularly listen to Gary Neville’s podcast. But the point stands whatever way you try and shape it Neville thought Wenger had to go. Neville thinks the board are the bigger issue. Liam Brady is nothing more than a fan with an attitude problem.
 
It seems to me that you can find plenty of evidence to back any argument. It's actually called having an opinion and people have vastly differing opinions on all subjects and they will always be sure they are right. The Jose subject will be the same. Some will want to keep him, probably more will want him sacked.
 
I think most of us see the benefit in replacing him. But some of us can see it will change nothing long term until changes at higher level are made.
 
At this moment in time I couldn’t care if Mourinho stayed of left the thing that irks me is the fans that would rather us lose to get rid of him. The fans that bang on about Mourinho being the problem and failing to realise it doesn’t matter who you get in this club is rotten at the core. The people that instead of loving the club are pulling against it. After the Newcastle game the majority of people were bouncing in a great mood and happy to come back from 2-0 down and get 3 points and then there were segments of people actually annoyed. They made me more pro Mourinho again because I’d rather side with the guy trying and getting it wrong than with the support that actively want us to lose. I can never side with that.
 
IDFD said:
A quick google of ‘Neville on Wenger’ was enough to provide plenty of evidence that Neville didn’t continuously back Wenger. I can only assume you don’t regularly listen to Gary Neville’s podcast. But the point stands whatever way you try and shape it Neville thought Wenger had to go. Neville thinks the board are the bigger issue. Liam Brady is nothing more than a fan with an attitude problem.
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'Neville on Wenger' does not provide evidence that Neville didn't continuously back Wenger. There's a difference between being critical after a bad performance and thinking that a manager should be sacked. I have never listened to Gary Neville's podcast, however any quotes made in the podcast would have been published by newspapers and therefore easy to find through Google. Please provide examples of where Neville said Wenger had to go?
 
IDFD said:
You mention Liam Brady. But ignore Gary Neville. Who was more influential to Fergie and his success. Gary Neville points out the board and the players are the people to blame and says he likes Mourinho and wants him to stay. That doesn’t match your argument though so you go with Brady.
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Brady was indirectly referring to United and was making the point about what is generally accepted in football and has been for years (and in life for that matter). The unwritten rule that you keep criticisms in the dressing room unless there is a very good reason not to. This is a principle which you see illustrated in all of football, many sports and most of life /politics etc. It's a well established principle that a manager breaks at his peril and when people start doing it in life it often creates bad feeling and disunity. That's why people stay away from public criticisms.

But really I shouldn't have to explain this to you. You know this already and you also know that Mou breaks this principle regularly and is thus playing with fire. He gets away with it when he's winning , but now he's not. As you know , there are many walks of life where you just wouldn't get away with it at all. I don't care what Neville thinks , the principle is still valid because it's based on life , people and human nature. People do not like being publicly shamed or isolated for criticism. It's not motivating and it creates bad feeling. But you're intelligent....figure it out for yourself and stop hiding behind Neville.
 
IDFD said:
I struggle to believe Itsallinthemind wasn’t aware of Pogba trying to move to City to be honest. Every man and his dog knew. I think it’s a case of ignore what’s obvious make an argument out of what you can. If he isn’t willing to take what is public knowledge in to account it’s a pointless discussion.
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So let's accept then that he was seeing if a move to City was possible. So what? Maybe you call him a traitor then? Maybe that's disruptive to the team? But that would offer us no understanding of WHY he might be looking elsewhere. As others have pointed out , we can't blame him. United look a zillion miles of other big clubs and maybe Pogba is thinking about what he would like to say to his grandchildren about the things he has won? He's had a taste of winning big with France and wants it again and we all know life is short.

Man United players of the past wanted to stay because we were going somewhere. De Gea looks like he's feeling it too. We have to move past this partisan small minded stuff to actually see what's really happening. Do we blame Ronaldo for not being "loyal" too?
 
IDFD said:
At this moment in time I couldn’t care if Mourinho stayed of left the thing that irks me is the fans that would rather us lose to get rid of him. The fans that bang on about Mourinho being the problem and failing to realise it doesn’t matter who you get in this club is rotten at the core. The people that instead of loving the club are pulling against it. After the Newcastle game the majority of people were bouncing in a great mood and happy to come back from 2-0 down and get 3 points and then there were segments of people actually annoyed. They made me more pro Mourinho again because I’d rather side with the guy trying and getting it wrong than with the support that actively want us to lose. I can never side with that.
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Ok , let's clear this up , so follow the thinking. I believe he's part of the rot not just a victim of it. I believe that the longer Jose stays this season the more likely we are to miss out on CL football and the more matches we will lose. I actually think that if he goes now and we get someone else in then we have at least a chance of rebuilding the season and winning more games. I also think that if we had lost badly against Newcastle then Jose might well have gone (we'll never know now).

If Jose had gone a week ago then I would be feeling much more positive about what we might do this season and be expecting a more successful season (and a more exciting one). Why? Because if we got a Sarri or an Emery in then they have shown what's possible with a team in a fairly short period of time. So actually I think that it would be good for our season and we would get more points and have more success and above all a change in mood.

Now , I know you don't believe that , but given that I do believe that then what should I feel about United coming back against Newcastle? Should I rejoice in the short term delusional adrenaline that comes from fooling myself into thinking Jose will somehow "turn it all around" because we beat a woeful team in the last minute? Or would you not expect me to be experiencing some disappointment when I realise the long term implications of that Sanchez goal? A realisation which for me might well mean weeks more rotten toxicity and poor football and therefore MORE LOSSES. If I feel that a loss against Newcastle would have meant a better season for us overall does that make me some traitor to the cause?

Of course I'm glad that United showed some fight and the players did that and that the fans got some pride back. Of course. But I've been around too long now to delude myself into too much bliss. Ignorance is not a luxury I can afford any more. Call me a traitor if you want. Tell me to go and stand on the Kop if you like , but at least I'm consistent with what I believe is best for this club. The sooner he goes the better and if that means some painful losses then so be it.

If you want to just eat your steak and pretend then that's your choice not mine.

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It’s simple for me if the fans don’t all agree that the manager is the right man then he probably isn’t.

You look at other clubs they’re all united behind their manager we are over 2 years in and the club is ripping itself apart it has got to stop and I think the obvious thing to do to change it is to remove Mourinho.

We can argue all day about does he do this on purpose or not but history has shown once it goes this way it’s never returned to normal and it hasn’t bought success because all this just doesn’t feel worth it.
 
jsp said:
It’s simple for me if the fans don’t all agree that the manager is the right man then he probably isn’t.

You look at other clubs they’re all united behind their manager we are over 2 years in and the club is ripping itself apart it has got to stop and I think the obvious thing to do to change it is to remove Mourinho.

We can argue all day about does he do this on purpose or not but history has shown once it goes this way it’s never returned to normal and it hasn’t bought success because all this just doesn’t feel worth it.
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I suppose you're right really. Wise words. It kind of feels like Real and Chelsea all over again.

I don't really want to feel the way I do and I'm sure IDFD doesn't want to be having ding dong arguments with me about Jose. I don't want to be having a go at him. We'd all be better off getting together. I'm not the problem and neither is IDFD and the Jose fans.

This is my problem with what this man brings to a club. He just can't help but be antagonistic and divisive. Even I've caught the bug. o_O
 
One thing I will agree on is that I don’t like the back and forth between both parties. I do think you’re slightly obsessed with Moutinho out as you rarely comment on any other issues. But I get that it’s because you think he’s the main problem.

At the end of the day with everything said and done we all just want what’s best for the club and none of us are getting what we want.
 
Come on guys big group hug!

This is basically how I feel all Utd fans will react to him going everyone on both sides puts down there weapons and says what were we even arguing about.
 
IDFD said:
One thing I will agree on is that I don’t like the back and forth between both parties. I do think you’re slightly obsessed with Moutinho out as you rarely comment on any other issues. But I get that it’s because you think he’s the main problem.

At the end of the day with everything said and done we all just want what’s best for the club and none of us are getting what we want.
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I've come to see that the way the club is run is pretty awful and I see Jose as just a symptom of that. We are a club that is probably complacent , stuck in past glories and looking for short term results (Jose?). We are aware as a club that we are not up there like we used to be and that other clubs have caught up and overtaken us (like Jose is out of date). We also have a board structure that is fragmented and chaotic but also quite stubborn when it comes to doing things a certain way. We are not creative enough as a club or thinking about bringing players on or developing youth properly.

It's not a coincidence then that we end up with a manager who reflects many of these qualities. He's fragmented in his decisions and sometimes chaotic (like our transfer policy) , living off past glories like a floundering wounded giant of the Premier League (like United? ) and unable to take a good hard look at himself (like woodward?). Maybe he's actually the perfect fit for us in the sense he just mirrors what is going on at the top.

We are trying to become a galactico , quick results club whilst forgetting we are a football club first and foremost. Maybe it's the board I'm really angry at , not Jose? He's just the focus right now.
 
yeah, the board is awful, Jose isn't helping, I don't kNow if that's because of the board, because of the players or just becasue he can't be bothered.

News at the weeked of a possible Saudi buyout. I don't think I want a Saudi owned club.
 
Our last 4 league games have been 2-0 down vs Newcastle come back and win. 1-0 down before going 2-1 up and then drawing 2-2. Beating Everton 2-1 and then coming back from 1-0 down to win 2-1. Has he earnt himself a bit of time?
 
I would like to see a new manager in the summer. Who would replace Mourinho at this stage of the season? I am still of the belief that the right manager would get the team functioning as a unit and consequently the players performing to a higher level. It's conceivable that two of the better players this season might not be at the club if Mourinho had his way.
 
IDFD said:
Our last 4 league games have been 2-0 down vs Newcastle come back and win. 1-0 down before going 2-1 up and then drawing 2-2. Beating Everton 2-1 and then coming back from 1-0 down to win 2-1. Has he earnt himself a bit of time?
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Next 2 games could be ugly as these teams aren’t the sort of team who will let you recover from a bad start.

He’s bought some time but the crisis is only ever 1 game away until he solves why this team starts so badly we cannot keep starting games so poorly.

It’s not all his fault players are culpable but it seems like the manager can see what’s going wrong and solve that problem but he can’t predict how they’ll start and punish them from minute 1.
 
I can't find a Jose thread with games won etc like the other managers.

So this is a good place?

Our friend Souness, who likes nothing better than having a dig at united, apparantly had a go at Jose's reaction last night of putting a hand to his ear. Said it could cause a riot.

Mcarthy shut him down immediately, said something like, I don't think you can comment after planting a flag in the middle of the pitch in Turkey :D
 
Mr C said:
Our friend Souness, who likes nothing better than having a dig at united, apparantly had a go at Jose's reaction last night of putting a hand to his ear. Said it could cause a riot
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And yet Souness makes a good point. Jose has no class and instead of talking about a huge away win we are talking about what he did. He's classless. I hate the guy.
 
Mr C said:
I can't find a Jose thread with games won etc like the other managers.

So this is a good place?

Our friend Souness, who likes nothing better than having a dig at united, apparantly had a go at Jose's reaction last night of putting a hand to his ear. Said it could cause a riot.

Mcarthy shut him down immediately, said something like, I don't think you can comment after planting a flag in the middle of the pitch in Turkey :D
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The worst thing is, when there is valid criticism and points to be made about United not being this or that, being out of form etc - then fair enough, these guys are pundits and it is their job to judge and make points about what they are seeing, and a lot of the time you tend to find yourself agreeing with comments that are being made - unless of course your a myopic fan when it comes to your team getting a few digs !

Graeme Souness is an absolute weapon and needs booting off coverage on our games, im bored of him ! well and truly bored of Pogba's useless, Mourinho is the grim reaper, United this, united that.

For me, Dispised him as a player, Dispise him as a pundit - got a chip on his shoulder with anything regarding United and always will.

I'd rather listen to some of the BT sport lot like Mcmanaman or Owen, thats saying something.
 
RichH2016 said:
And yet Souness makes a good point. Jose has no class and instead of talking about a huge away win we are talking about what he did. He's classless. I hate the guy.
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Souness didn’t make a good point. Jose could have walked over shook every fans hand in the stadium bought their grans a cup of tea and we’d still be talking about José. You know why? Because you guys have made it like this. Every bad result and every poor performance you’ve got in the managers back you’ve made him out to be the devil incarnate you’ve made him the central figure that has to be spoken about every game.
 
RichH2016 said:
And yet Souness makes a good point. Jose has no class and instead of talking about a huge away win we are talking about what he did. He's classless. I hate the guy.
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Souness once walked out into the middle of the pitch and planted a Galatasary flag in the middle of the Fenerbache pitch.

Mourinho might have poked someone in the eye but if you want to talk about the sort of behaviour that could and did start a riot and lacks any class Souness is not on to be pointing fingers and this is coming from someone who quite likes him and is a massive fan of his behaviour as Galatasary manager lol
 

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