Racism in Today's Multi Cultural Society

IDFD said:
Certainly have done in the last decade. That’s why Theresa May struggled to defend the cuts and why promises were made at the last election to reverse the cuts.
Click to expand...

she just made cuts! that is not what is being suggested here, police will get cut and the money used in other areas. Did you read the article about Camden New Jersey?
 
Mr C said:
Just seen an interesting video, it's on Facebook so it might not work.

It's very interesting, it starts with the fact the peaceful protest of footballers going on one knee was booted down. In fact Trump started causing division then by saying these people are anti American and are disrespecting the army.

Black Lives Matter & The Question of Violence | Gary Younge
Click to expand...

Was on the phone so couldn't send those both at the same time. I don't think this linked to where you wanted it to. Wasn't a video.
 
Mr C said:
she just made cuts! that is not what is being suggested here, police will get cut and the money used in other areas. Did you read the article about Camden New Jersey?
Click to expand...

I was pointing towards the fact there was a blatant correlation between the cuts and the crime rate.

Yeah I read the article. That isn't firstly what the Minneapolis is doing. They're talking of dismantling their Police force. (Which won't happen this ridiculous promise is getting veto'd at the higher level.) Then back to Camden. 25 murders in a population of 80,000 isn't a fantastic endorsement. Though the cuts obviously are.

And you cannot compare a city of 80k to a city of 450k. It's like comparing Mole Valley to London and thinking the same methods could possibly work.

Would you like the police in your local community to be dismantled? Do you think it's a good idea for the UK?

More social funding should happen. But not at the amiss of Police. You want to start dismantling police forces in the US and cause them to walk around unarmed then you better be unarming the public. There is a massive societal problem in America with their guns and until you remove that making any cuts to the police force in terms of equipment and numbers isn't a sensible idea.

But most important Camden reformed their police not dismantled it.

nypost.com

Camden, NJ, did police reform right — not that radicals will pay attention

The recent unrest over the death of George Floyd is turning into a debate over how to change policing in America. The radical hotheads are more interested in blowing up policing as we know it than …
nypost.com nypost.com

Almost all police were rehired.

My main care is about the idea of it here though. I in no way will feel safe with these sorts of dismantling of the English police force. Who I feel are taken a major unfair attack at the moment.
 
Mr C said:
oh thats weird. works for me :-/
Click to expand...

Does now that i'm up and moved from my phone to my laptop. Video didn't display on my phone. Will give it a watch.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
O-Dog said:
But what is the cause of that statistic, its history, context? Guess it must be the feckless blacks fault. After all, they've been given every opportunity, haven't they.
Click to expand...

Do you ever feel individuals are to blame for their actions? Or that the parents are ever to blame for their actions. Or is it always the governments and societies fault?
 
IDFD said:
I was pointing towards the fact there was a blatant correlation between the cuts and the crime rate.

Yeah I read the article. That isn't firstly what the Minneapolis is doing. They're talking of dismantling their Police force. (Which won't happen this ridiculous promise is getting veto'd at the higher level.) Then back to Camden. 25 murders in a population of 80,000 isn't a fantastic endorsement.

And you cannot compare a city of 80k to a city of 3.6m. It's like comparing Mole Valley to London and thinking the same methods could possibly work.

Would you like the police in your local community to be dismantled? Do you think it's a good idea for the UK?

More social funding should happen. But not at the amiss of Police. You want to start dismantling police forces in the US and cause them to walk around an armed then you better be unarming the public.
Click to expand...

What I think, if the current method isn't working, it's working fine where I am btw, then maybe some sort of change needs to come in. (made up scenario) Now if police going to domestic crimes escalate all the time, then maybe rather than say 2 or 4 cops turn up, maybe 1 or 3 cops with a trained counsiler in domestic abuse goes along, then yes that is one police job cut, but not the numbers attending.

Like I say, I don't know, but in theory that makes sense to me.
 
IDFD said:
Do you ever feel individuals are to blame for their actions? Or that the parents are ever to blame for their actions. Or is it always the governments and societies fault?
Click to expand...

it's all linked, government cuts leads to poverty that leads to crime. Goverment cuts has meant all the local youth schemes have gone too.
 
Shoot said:
We are already seriously short on police through Tory cuts. The force is already under serious pressure. We need more not less.
Click to expand...

Yes but we are even shorter in terms of social spending which might prove to be more proactive in reducing crime rather than being reactive to crime which is what the police are. The police turn up after something has happened they don't spend time in communities trying to sort out why these things happen.

Spend money on improving these areas give kids access to better schools, give parents access to proper social support networks, invest in better social housing (more in America than UK), encourage small business owners etc. Basically try and make the parts of these big cities in America a nicer more peaceful place to live with a long term vision. Don't just send in the cops on mass over a few broken windows as that might give you a short term bump in statistics but it doesn't solve the problem.

As @Mr C posted above Camden New Jersey has seen a massive improvement by trying something different and maybe it's time to try something different because the current approach hasn't worked in the long term.
 
Just read this stat which people won't like as it goes against what they want the picture to be:

'In the past 10 years, 163 people have died in police custody in England and Wales according to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).

Of these 163 deaths: 140 were white, 13 were black and 10 were from other minority groups.'
 
So what's the % split of UK population and how many of those deaths were in suspicious circumstances.

We can all find numbers and throw them around but they need to have something behind them to support your point.

BLM is a response to unlawful police killings of black men and women and the way the first reaction of the police department is always to try and sweep it under the rug. Black people are unhappy about it and trying to do something about it. Yes black on black killings are a problem but they are not just linked to this and others are trying their best to sort out the crime problem amongst the black community but this is about the way the police are treating people when they are called.

Everyone needs to stop trying to change the argument.... I am aware that wasn't the original point of this thread.
 
It isn’t changing the argument. It’s proving that the whole narrative completely false.

You have a problem with people dying at the hands of the police then say it. But to only have a problem depending on the colour of that persons skin? Ridiculous.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


CAUTION: POLICE KILLING. VIEWER DISCRETION. News broadcast. Watch with caution it’s grim to see. Police Brutality is a problem to people of all races and to decide only one lot of brutality matters isn’t something I find agreeable. Especially when if you look at it through the numbers and crime committed instead of proportional representation then both here and the US a White person is more like to be hurt by the police than a black person. It’s a false narrative being used to push an agenda.

And I get it’s a lot easier to read the media. #blacklivesmatter and be quiet than look any deeper and have an opinion that differs. My opinion wouldn’t be controversial at all though if we truly did live in a racist society.
 
If Churchill gets removed I think you’ll be looking at all our anarchy. He’s seen an a British icon and someone that symbolises their British attitude.

I couldn’t really care for statues myself. But Churchill is probably considered the greatest Brit of all time(?) and to discard him from history won’t sit right with many.

You’ve got Anthony Joshua saying ‘Don’t shop at their shops. Only shop in black shops’ and you’re telling me this movement isn’t creating more divide? The irony or him fighting in Saudi Arabia with the money grab is not lost though.

And the fact we’re silencing people. And you aren’t even allowed to talk about other race issues in society at the moment is just crazy. Than in itself is racist.

Are blacks treated poorly by the police. Without a doubt. This is something that does need to be looked at but we need to stop then also having so much involvement with the police.

Are blacks more likely to die at the hands of the police than whites? Not if they aren’t committing a crime.
 
wow, the argument on this thread jumps all over the place.

Nobody is saying white lives don't matter, nobody is saying the police are not brutal towards white people. None of that is being said. The protest were started because a black man was tortured to death on film and nothing was done about it. A larger % of black people in the US die at the hands of the police than white. That is a fact. But it's not just about that. It's about racism in its entirity. And to keep saying the protests are wrong because white people die to too is unacceptable. Something needs to be done about racism.

As for the statues, I'm in two minds. I don't think they should be taken down, it's denying our past, even if much of it was awful. I mean to talk about violence in the marches, just take the English Empire and the violence and carnage caused there. I think the statues should remain with plaques giving the full history. I do believe street names and buildings should be renamed though.

As for Churchill, I don't know much about him other than a few speeches during the war. I have no idea if he was a racist though.
 
Surely you have to question why white people have not been so outspoken about the way other white people are being treated by the police then? Or do we not care because it's generally happening to poor white people?

Rather than trying to discredit a community who've said f*ck this we've had enough it's time to stop? The BLM movement are at least trying to do something about it and if it stops happening to black people then it probably stops happening to white and other people as well because it will be a complete change in attitude from the police.

The whole statue thing becomes very messy as like you've said Churchill is an icon of British wartime success as our leader during WW2 but he also did some pretty horrible sh*t. That statue isn't their because of what we he did in India or other places it's there to honour what he did during the war but can you separate one from the other?

The statues of people who profited from owning slaves probably do need to go they certainly shouldn't be forgotten we shouldn't ever forget our past both good and bad but some of these memorials to past success maybe do need to go. I don't think people should tear down anymore but the fact that the one in Bristol finally came down says that it is now time to have this discussion properly and see some action taken.

Britain has never felt so divided but I think that's largely down to 10 years of austerity governments and add in to that Brexit referendum the country has been split down the middle over all sorts of things.
 
I'd say over here it's because we don't have such a problem in the first place. As I said I think the police do on whole a fantastic job. (and that's from someone whose received a beating at the hands of them). Over in America i'd say it's because as cultures we aren't as quick to jump to the defense of criminals in our society. We believe in do the crime pay the time. Also I think white people are more likely to own guns and they know that any police reform has to come with gun reform. They go hand in hand and we all know that those crazy white Americans don't want to give up their guns.

As a community if their name and motto is going to be black lives matter then they should be outraged with black deaths in the riot instead of pretending they haven't happened or blame ANTIFA for them. Currently both sides are blaming ANTIFA for differing things. It would be fantastic if they could stop (all) lives dying at the hands of the police. But until they stop the violent crime which predominantly involve a black man and guns being in society then this just simply isn't going to happen.

In terms of Statues it's about where you draw the line. The Tate is up for being renamed. Henry Tate never owned any slaves, was never involved in any slave trading. But made his money in the sugar trade. And the argument is he wouldn't have made as much money if slavery didn't exist.
 
Mr C said:
As for Churchill, I don't know much about him other than a few speeches during the war. I have no idea if he was a racist though.
Click to expand...

If you'd asked me Saturday then i'd have had no idea he was a racist. But looking at it he appears he certainly was a massive racist. So much so that his racist views have a wiki page that was formed ages ago. The Bengal famine seems to be the big one.

en.wikipedia.org

Racial views of Winston Churchill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Mr C said:
Nobody is saying white lives don't matter, nobody is saying the police are not brutal towards white people. None of that is being said. The protest were started because a black man was tortured to death on film and nothing was done about it.
Click to expand...

This is literally exactly what is being said. Facts are being ignored. There was a BLM activist on the news yesterday that said 'Whites don't have to worry. Not a single white man gets killed by the police.'

She also said 'black on black crime doesn't exist'.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


The actual debate between those two is boring and nothing meaningful said. But on social media and your average English person believes not a single White person is killed by American police. And are shocked to find out they are.

And yes something does need to be done about racism. Racism is rife around the world but I don't believe it to be the major problem in England or the states that it's being made out to be.
 
wow, thats a stong comment. Literally every one of my black friends has been racially abused. It's a huge problem in the UK and the States.

Ok, in southern Uk there might not be many people going around calling people names. But you look at business and that is hugely white biased. Like many industries.

And I go back to my first point, you'll never know, because you're not black. To say it's not a major problem is a strong thing to say. And to say it's not major, isn't that like saying I have a little cancer, either I have it or I don't. Either there is racism or there isn't, not sure it can be graded.
 
here's a stat, on the news the other day.

A poor white kid gets worse exam results than a poor black kid. The poor white kid gets employed quicker than the poor black kid.
 
That's terrible however I'd hazard that the majority of your friends are older and a lot of the racial abuse they received wasn't in the last two decades.

I do agree that board rooms are majority white. However 3% of the country are black. The country is majority white. You aren't going to get equal representation because there isn't equal representation in the country. Sterling yesterday said 50% of managers should be black. It would make no sense for that to be the case. And if one premier league manager is black then they are actually 'over' represented in terms of proportionate representation.

As for the exam results for kids. I had my first job well before my exam results came out and entry level jobs will take that in to account as much at 16. If true then obviously it's something we need to work on changing.
 
Mr C said:
wow, thats a stong comment. Literally every one of my black friends has been racially abused. It's a huge problem in the UK and the States.

Ok, in southern Uk there might not be many people going around calling people names. But you look at business and that is hugely white biased. Like many industries.

And I go back to my first point, you'll never know, because you're not black. To say it's not a major problem is a strong thing to say. And to say it's not major, isn't that like saying I have a little cancer, either I have it or I don't. Either there is racism or there isn't, not sure it can be graded.
Click to expand...
That's a nonsense comparison. Racism exists and always will, it cannot be eradicated.
 
The extend of all this racism talk and actions, protests, violence etc must now be having a negative effect. It certainly has where I am concerned.
I can no longer be bothered talking about it and switch over when there is media coverage due to the amount of crap that is going on.
Where focus should be about ensuring there is never another George Floyd case its now all about Francis Drake and Captain Cook. What a total load of bollocks. feck off!
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Police officers going about their day being chocked out.

Indefensible behaviour. This is the direction we’re heading in.
 
IDFD said:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Police officers going about their day being chocked out.

Indefensible behaviour. This is the direction we’re heading in.
Click to expand...

You know what the problem was. There was 2 racist coppers there. If their was only 1 racist copper and a social worker everything would have been alright.
Can you here the racism cries? fecking joke.
 
Shoot said:
That's a nonsense comparison. Racism exists and always will, it cannot be eradicated.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I never said otherwise. What I said was it can't be graded, you can't be a little bit racist, either you are or you're not. There can't be a major problem with racism, either there is a problem or there isn't. You don't need the little or major. To say it's not a major a problem is accepting a small amount is ok.
 
Shoot said:
You know what the problem was. There was 2 racist coppers there. If their was only 1 racist copper and a social worker everything would have been alright.
Can you here the racism cries? fecking joke.
Click to expand...


I imagine those people will get arrested and prosecuted. If not then take to the streets and protest like they did when the police officers in the states were going to get away with it.

What it sounds like you're saying on here is, racism is ok, becasue black people cause trouble so it's their own fault. That video doesn't even look like it's part of the protests. It looks like a random act of violence. Of course either scenario is unnaceptable, but they don't look protestors.
 
No they aren’t protesters. I said 10 days ago. BLM encourage violence and then it always escalates. You think a racist attack on a police officer is coincidence? Or would you not call it a racist attack because it’s back guys attacking a white male officer?

Now there are fake reports of assault so they can attack police officers.

No one is saying racism is okay. I’m saying BLM do the opposite of uniting races and cause more divide and hatred.

This weekend is going to be absolute carnage in this country. The murder rate this weekend was already up on normal.

You cannot demonise the police officers make out they’re all evil racist and then not expect a spike of attacks against them. And for what? What have the UK police really done majorly wrong in the last year? That’s 27 officers injured in the last 5 days now that have been reported.
 
I don't think BLM encourage violence at all, I think violent people use all casues to be violent, which is why most protests end up in violence.

It's not dividing me, I think racism should be curbed any we can and all criminal damage/violence should be prosecuted. I have always thought that and always will.

If you are of a certain mind, then yes maybe it will enflame your thoughts.

I also think the government should invest more in poor areas of towns and cities.
 
It isn’t a question of does BLM encourage violence. (The movement not the statement). They do.

As for not creating more divide you’ve obviously lost touch with the feel of the nation over here because we’re on knife edge with people calling for the army to be bought in and restore safety to the streets.
 
yeah, probably I am out of touch

But I do look at the papers, and they seem more bothered about JK Rowling :D

The red tops are linking that video clip you showed to the protests which is disingenuous.

My whole point on this thread, is something needs to be done about racism, and investment is needed in the poor boroughs. That's all.
 
Tommy Robinson has created an anti black lives matter movement for this weekend. He’s not calling it that and is saying that it’s definitely not that. But that’s what it is.

It’s called ‘Democratic Football Lads Alliance (DFLA)’

Their aim is to protect the British War time statues. Mainly the Churchill one. But I think we can both see how putting together a group of people full of hate and another group together that are being fed lies that everyone hates them ends up.

And of course they’re linking it to the protest. Without those protest does the incident happen in your opinion? You’ve fed a load of poor black youths this opinion that all white police officers hate them and that the nation is out to put them down. You’ve enhanced their feelings that the nation is racist towards them and awoken their racist feelings towards white officers.
 
Like I said, all protests bring out the violent people, both sides. It's a great chance for the far right to promote themselves. But I don't think you should not do what you believe in, like protesting againt racism, just because it's going to bring a few nutters out of the woodwork.

The real problem I see with this, in the US, is they have a racist president, he's not going to do anything to curb racism, in fact he promotes it. So what is going to happen when the protests go on, and nothing is done.
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Back
Top