Racism in Today's Multi Cultural Society

Shoot said:
Firstly, if you do not see any harm in it maybe you should refer back to the video IDFD posted on Thursday. And although as far as I can see today's protests were peaceful, they are unlawful! It is likely they only reason the are not being dispersed is that it would likely lead to riots.
The country is being held to ransom at a dangerous time. All this talk about how lives matter when they simultaneously put lives and the health of the country at risk with these gatherings.
And this does not only relate to the way police treat them, listening to what the protesters have to say provides no evidence of that and as I have already said that issue should never have transferred to these shores at this time.
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Spoke too soon, violence erupts in Whitehall and what moron decided it was a good idea to vandalise the statue of Winston Churchill?
 
fecking charming behaviour, you keep defending it @jsp
These people are exactly what Trump calls them. Outlaws and Anarchists. And what I call Opportunist Rabble Rousers.
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Where am I defending it?

The vast majority of protests that require the police to monitor them have flash points and people get arrested.

No different to Tommy Robinson and all those football lads alliance types marching through London because they hate Muslims eventually someone pushes to far and the police push back and when the police push back they push back hard because they're out numbered.

You are correct a lot of the people jumping in will be the type of people who just want to see the world collapse Dominic Cummings would be proud of them.
 
Shoot said:
fecking charming behaviour, you keep defending it @jsp
These people are exactly what Trump calls them. Outlaws and Anarchists. And what I call Opportunist Rabble Rousers.
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The scenes I’ve just witnessed on the news are beyond deplorable. A lot of people probably don’t even know why they are there - they are just there to cause trouble. Couple that with the fact we are in an ongoing pandemic that hasn’t gone away, it has made my blood boil.
 
jsp said:
Where am I defending it?

The vast majority of protests that require the police to monitor them have flash points and people get arrested.

No different to Tommy Robinson and all those football lads alliance types marching through London because they hate Muslims eventually someone pushes to far and the police push back and when the police push back they push back hard because they're out numbered.

You are correct a lot of the people jumping in will be the type of people who just want to see the world collapse Dominic Cummings would be proud of them.
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jsp said:
By the way @IDFD I read your post and it's obviously someone who's really read up on this issue which I haven't and it's hard to look in on it as a white male saying you lot are talking nonsense but if the black lives matter movement which mainly seems to relate to the way police treat them means things improve for everyone then I see no harm.
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That's your message right there and to me seeing no harm in it is as good as defending it. It's fecking deplorable behaviour, it is lawlessness on the streets of Britain because of the actions of US police officers.
I don't defend any of the other groups you mention either, they are equally deplorable so no good throwing that at me.
The only thing these people have done is make Trump right! They are outlaws and anarchists. Oh, no sorry they have achieved another thing, they have defeated their own purpose (or at least what they claim their purpose to be) as they will gain no sympathy or respect.
From seeing scenes like that, from a fecking baying mob the only people who have my respect is the British Police Force who showed immense restraint until pushed right to the limit and then fought back fisty cuffs to defend the PM's residence which was their primary purpose. One of those cops in particular should have been marched right into Downing St for the PM's personal thanks and should possibly even be commended for his actions and conduct. Can you imaging being in that position, that fecking baying mob, being so outnumbered but standing steadfast and showing such bravery. I wish I could shake the mans hand now.
These scenes when we have a fecking pandemic on our hands. That quite simply is the cause of this baying mob who were never going to go home until they had caused such mayhem.
 
Shoot said:
That's your message right there and to me seeing no harm in it is as good as defending it. It's fecking deplorable behaviour, it is lawlessness on the streets of Britain because of the actions of US police officers.
I don't defend any of the other groups you mention either, they are equally deplorable so no good throwing that at me.
The only thing these people have done is make Trump right! They are outlaws and anarchists. Oh, no sorry they have achieved another thing, they have defeated their own purpose (or at least what they claim their purpose to be) as they will gain no sympathy or respect.
From seeing scenes like that, from a fecking baying mob the only people who have my respect is the British Police Force who showed immense restraint until pushed right to the limit and then fought back fisty cuffs to defend the PM's residence which was their primary purpose. One of those cops in particular should have been marched right into Downing St for the PM's personal thanks and should possibly even be commended for his actions and conduct. Can you imaging being in that position, that fecking baying mob, being so outnumbered but standing steadfast and showing such bravery. I wish I could shake the mans hand now.
These scenes when we have a fecking pandemic on our hands. That quite simply is the cause of this baying mob who were never going to go home until they had caused such mayhem.
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That comment is about the black lives matter movement as a whole not the small group who latch on to it and decide to use it for violence against the police. It’s not about violence it’s about highlighting the issue of how black people think they are being treated inhumanly by the police. As I’ve said a lot of the people at these protests won’t be there for these reasons they’re just people who are pissed off but don’t let the minority ruin it for the majority.

From what I’ve seen yesterday the police did a good job in the UK when they needed to step in they did but most of the time they stood off and allowed things to happen peacefully. Trying to enforce social distancing on a protest was a battle that could never be won.
 
The police should start arresting more of these morons. Bricks and bikes being thrown at horses. Horses with broken noses. How’s this helping the fight for racism? All it’s doing is creating a divide not uniting people. Especially at the moment when we have a pandemic going on.

The R rate has risen back towards 1. It’s 0.95 in London and I wouldn’t be surprised to see strict lockdown laws put back in place. Especially with the delay to track and trace.
 
Those who act like tw*ts should be getting arrested and people an element of self policing is required for that stuff it's the same with a football crowd if you as a group don't tell the idiots to tone it down chances are all of you are getting your heads smashed in when the police turn up. You either call them out on it or make sure you get away from them so the police sort it out.

The pandemic stuff is a different issue here the government lost control of the lockdown weeks ago when they started relaxing rules without clarity plus the whole cummings thing. I don't think we'll be going back to lockdown they might delay schools going back but Britain will be open for business by the end of the month when the furlough tap has is turned off. They're lucky the sun has disappeared this week so people who aren't out protesting aren't gathering in parks, gardens, beaches etc. Politics not science is dictating the policy now and that policy is we all need to get back to work.

The only way things will go back to lockdown is if the death rates suddenly start to spike rapidly.
 
So we now know that the main aim behind BLM and what they want from these protest is to defund the Police. Both in the US and the UK.

Is there anyone that actually thinks this is a good idea on this forum?

If so why?

You're talking about bringing us back to a complete state of lawlessness.

www.nytimes.com

Minneapolis Will Dismantle Its Police Force, Council Members Pledge (Published 2020)

Saying the existing Police Department cannot be reformed, a majority of the City Council has promised to rethink public safety from the ground up in the wake of George Floyd’s killing.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Never realized I had a subscription to it until you'd said that.
 
Looking at it and talking to people and seems like this basically signs Trumps 2020 election victory.

It just got even harder for Biden to toe the line and even easier for trump to paint the democrats as anti police and anti law and order.
 
the model they want to follow in Camden New Jersey seems to have worked though, in the second link.

It's not to descend into lawlessness as you stated.

The election is a difficult one, I guess it was on here I read going up against a second termer is really difficult. They voted Trump in before, so I don't see why they won't again, I'm not sure this affects it either way, Just like Boris and Cummings. It's been completely dropped that Cummings did what he wanted and now Boris is talking about fining people for doing similar. I'm not sure Biden is a decent candidate. One of my best pals lives in the US I could ask him about Bidens appeal.

As for these protests, I stand by something needs to be done to combat racism. I don't stand by any violence though. And that's pretty much what all my black friends are saying. They have all experienced it, something needs to be done, but not by harming people or property.
 
IDFD said:
So we now know that the main aim behind BLM and what they want from these protest is to defund the Police. Both in the US and the UK.

You're talking about bringing us back to a complete state of lawlessness
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That is a gross oversimplification of a complex issue. I suspect willfully so: it reeks of your hatred of the Black Lives Matter movement.
 
I have no problem saying I’m not a fan of the BLM movement. I explicitly stated such numerous times. I don’t like violent causes and I don’t like the way they manipulate stats, blatantly lie and use the uneducated masses to do their dirty work. The leaders want more power in society and couldn’t give a toss about the black lives they lose along the way. Otherwise they’d be majorly in to combatting the fact that the biggest danger to a white mans life in America is a car accident and the biggest danger to a black mans life in America is another black man.


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However defunding of the police leads us to a lawless society. We can’t police ourselves otherwise we wouldn’t have so much crime in the first place. Did you even read the article I posted?

I was speaking to a friend that leaves in Minnesota (met playing an online game never in real life) and he said he’s terrified after these announcements of what it looks like in 6 months time.

Do you like the idea of defunding the police in the UK?

The fact we’re praising that there were only 25 murders in a city of just 80k says it all.
 
The idea of defunding the police is to help fund social programmes so the police don’t have to deal with things they shouldn’t be dealing with mental health issues for example. Things that can be better dealt with by others who are trained in this and can focus on solving them rather than just dump it on the police who aren’t really setup to deal with it.

Basically reduce the scope of their job by spending money elsewhere with the aim being that better funded social programmes will stop things escalating from a social problem to a criminal one.
 
jsp said:
The idea of defunding the police is to help fund social programmes so the police don’t have to deal with things they shouldn’t be dealing with mental health issues for example. Things that can be better dealt with by others who are trained in this and can focus on solving them rather than just dump it on the police who aren’t really setup to deal with it.

Basically reduce the scope of their job by spending money elsewhere with the aim being that better funded social programmes will stop things escalating from a social problem to a criminal one.
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What are you saying, the BLM folk are moving into the mental health sector now?
 
Shoot said:
What are you saying, the BLM folk are moving into the mental health sector now?
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No my response was to the idea of defunding the police it’s not about having no police it’s about having a police force that fits into modern society and adapts to the current needs. The people who are suggesting a solution is to defund the police are saying better social care in the areas that need it most will likely reduce the amount of police required as things will get sorted before police need to intervene.

I haven’t read up enough on it to say if I support it or not but I can understand the logic more police hasn’t solved the problem with crime in a lot of cities less police actually focusing on the serious things they need to enforce might be a better solution.

Train and hire specialists to deal with social issues and don’t jump dump everything with the police as they admit they’re not geared up to deal with it.
 
jsp said:
No my response was to the idea of defunding the police it’s not about having no police it’s about having a police force that fits into modern society and adapts to the current needs. The people who are suggesting a solution is to defund the police are saying better social care in the areas that need it most will likely reduce the amount of police required as things will get sorted before police need to intervene.

I haven’t read up enough on it to say if I support it or not but I can understand the logic more police hasn’t solved the problem with crime in a lot of cities less police actually focusing on the serious things they need to enforce might be a better solution.

Train and hire specialists to deal with social issues and don’t jump dump everything with the police as they admit they’re not geared up to deal with it.
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We are already seriously short on police through Tory cuts. The force is already under serious pressure. We need more not less.
 
Less police has without doubt proven to cause an increase in crime.
 
Shoot said:
We are already seriously short on police through Tory cuts. The force is already under serious pressure. We need more not less.
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Or we need the police to be free of all social care and mental health care responsibilities. Refund social care and mental health services.
 
IDFD said:
I have no problem saying I’m not a fan of the BLM movement. I explicitly stated such numerous times. I don’t like violent causes and I don’t like the way they manipulate stats, blatantly lie and use the uneducated masses to do their dirty work. The leaders want more power in society and couldn’t give a toss about the black lives they lose along the way. Otherwise they’d be majorly in to combatting the fact that the biggest danger to a white mans life in America is a car accident and the biggest danger to a black mans life in America is another black man.


Fundraiser by UKBLM Fund : UKBLM FUND
UKBLM FUND organized by UKBLM Fund

However defunding of the police leads us to a lawless society.
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Absolute nonsense. Reads more like Prejudice and paranoia than reality.
 
There's no prejudice to posting facts. Just like it isn't prejudice to say 52% of murders in America are committed by 3.5% of the population. Black Men aged 18-40. It isn't racist to say 90% of blacks that are murdered are killed by blacks. It's naive to think both of those aren't major problems in society it just doesn't fit with the narrative being pushed.

Black people are 27 times more likely to violently attack a white man than vice versa. A police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black person than the other way around. I've not given any opinion on these for you to call me racist or prejudice. Just given you the facts to show the current agenda doesn't fit the statistics.

Black people are disproportionately involved with the police because they commit a disproportionate amount of the crime. George Floyds killing was a disgusting act but the current level of racist accusation being pushed upon the institution and people apologizing for being white just doesn't fit with the narrative of the last few yrs that the actual statistics provide if you look them up.

Maybe you'd prefer to heart it from a black man than a white one.
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Or get Thomas Sowells opinion on systematic racism

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IDFD said:
Snip
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Dubious statistics without context.

The vox pop by the ex cop is just opinion, adds nothing.

Why is the black person's experience in the USA as it is? What are the causes, the history, the context?

Why, for over 100 years after the abolition of slavery, were large numbers of black people arrested on trumped up charges and forced to work in servitude until their hefty fines were deemed paid?

Why did racial segregation last until the second half of the last century?

Where did all the ingrained racism that caused the above disappear? Has it disappeared?
 
O-Dog said:
Why is the black person's experience in the USA as it is? What are the causes, the history, the context?
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The statistics aren't dubious. They're just statistics that give you context of what crime is like in America and the actual pandemic and biggest problem facing black men in America being black on black crime. I linked the FBI's website with all the statistics the other day.

"We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison.'' - Obama in 2008.

Do you know the percentage of Black Americans that grow up without a father on the scene? 75%. Do you not think there is a correlation there?

As for context I think it's important to always look at both sides of the story and I prefer to work with facts than opinion. Always have done.

I'd have to assume the ingrained racism moved along with the times. For example your great great Grandparents would have been racist as it was the society they lived in. Is that still ingrained in you or have you like time moved forwards.
 
IDFD said:
I can only assume you're being sarcastic here? You think the cuts to our policing numbers and the rise in crime aren't linked?
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No. My partner, for close to a decade, managed the dept that collated, correlated, verified, analysed and published the crime figures for the Met. She laughs at any simplistic correlation between police numbers and crime rates.
 
IDFD said:
"We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison.'' - Obama in 2008.

Do you know the percentage of Black Americans that grow up without a father on the scene? 75%.
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But what is the cause of that statistic, its history, context? Guess it must be the feckless blacks fault. After all, they've been given every opportunity, haven't they.
 
O-Dog said:
No. My partner, for close to a decade, managed the dept that collated, correlated, verified, analysed and published the crime figures for the Met. She laughs at any simplistic correlation between police numbers and crime rates.
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So it's purely coincidence that they do correlate?
 
IDFD said:
Less police has without doubt proven to cause an increase in crime.
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You're being very sensationalist, you should write headlines for The Sun :D

The burst of activity on this thread is because you said BLM want to create Lawlessness, because of what Minneapolis counsillors want to do. And less Police causes more crime.

In theory that may be correct, that less Police = more crime. But as the article said earlier, if done properly it doesn't. Minneapolis want to follow Camden in New Jersey, which was one of the most dangerous cities, and now is not. They didn't cut policing, they redirected funds so as to get the right people in the right areas.

Getting trained people into the right area's, some of which the police go into with no training causing further damage, results in Police cuts, but cuts crime.

Now I don't know, I have only read the facts on the articles posted. And it would seem, in the one case where it's been trialed, redirecting some police money, into area's where more trained people can help, has worked.

So no, there is no Lawlessnes, in fact people are being more lawful, and the crime rate has not gone up with less police, it's gone down.
 
Just seen an interesting video, it's on Facebook so it might not work.

It's very interesting, it starts with the fact the peaceful protest of footballers going on one knee was booted down. In fact Trump started causing division then by saying these people are anti American and are disrespecting the army.

Black Lives Matter & The Question of Violence | Gary Younge
 

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