Loan Watch 2021/22: Donny van de Beek at Everton

[Sideshow Bob]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[SuperRash]

Got 30 minutes off the bench last night. Things are improving for our Donny!

 

[O-Dog]

Got 30 minutes off the bench last night. Things are improving for our Donny!

Didn't do much with those minutes, by all accounts. Although first game, new manager, etc. etc.

Needs to start making an impact pretty quickly.

 

[jsp]

Really think he's got a problem because surely him and Dele are fighting for one spot.

Given they've signed Dele surely he's going to get the first crack at nailing down that starting spot.

Everton are seriously now in a relegation battle.

 

[Mr C]

I think all Evertons subs were due to injuries, so probably not quite the formation Frank wanted. Maybe he was out of position,

 

[jsp]

Well looking at last night it was setup by Lampard as 3-4-3 with two number 10's behind the main striker which was Richarlison. That formation was used quite a lot by Lampard when he was at Chelsea he went 4-3-3 in his second season and it never really worked and he eventually got sacked and Tuchel went straight back to the 3-4-3.

If Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are both fit then you expect both of them to start leaving one more spot in that front 3 which is up for grabs.

I didn't see the game but looks like Everton just kept getting done on counters they had 60% of the ball but Newcastle managed 20 attempts on goal to Everton's 11.

For me from a football point of the move to Palace made so much more sense he's just jumped from the frying pan straight into the fire with Everton.

 

[RichH2016]

Really think he's got a problem because surely him and Dele are fighting for one spot.

Given they've signed Dele surely he's going to get the first crack at nailing down that starting spot.

Everton are seriously now in a relegation battle.

I think unfortunately he was loaned out to the wrong team at the wrong time. After loaning him Alli became available and surely they will give the priority to Alli who can be there long term?

 

[jsp]

I think unfortunately he was loaned out to the wrong team at the wrong time. After loaning him Alli became available and surely they will give the priority to Alli who can be there long term?

The thing was there was still time to back out he knew before the deal went through that Dele was coming so he should have pulled out.

Think the biggest draw to Everton was location his partner is currently pregnant so I doubt he wanted to move to South London for 6 months.

I mean lets be honest if he can't get in a team ahead of Dele Ali his career really is over that lads been awful for about 3 years now Spurs have pulled off a blinder getting rid of him.

 

[IDFD]

Played his first 90 minutes today. Had most touches, most passes, most tackles and most aerial duals won.

In a midfield 2 alongside Allen.

 

[jsp]

Against Leeds arguably the easiest team to play against in the league at the moment.

Good on him hopefully he keeps it up.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[RichH2016]

I mean yes it was against Leeds but he looked good. He got about the pitch, he got tackles in, he kept it simple but also looked to pick those forward passes and he played some clever one touch passes. He looked like he had a really good awareness of who was around him.

 

[SuperRash]

It’s amazing when you have a manager who trusts you. From the highlights he was excellent in a midfield two.

Ole never fancied him from the start and it’s hard to come on for 5-10 minutes and make an impact. By the end his confidence here was basically crushed, so when he did play you could tell he was playing within himself.

Chuffed he got a start yesterday and getting the plaudits because he’s had a tough time here so far.

 

[RichH2016]

Ole never fancied him from the start and it’s hard to come on for 5-10 minutes and make an impact. By the end his confidence here was basically crushed, so when he did play you could tell he was playing within himself.

And when he did start it was as part of a team that was completely rotated (or at least for the most part).

 

[jsp]

Think we need to judge him over the whole spell not one good game against a poor side.

positive is hopefully he’s got himself in the team now so he needs to show he deserves to stay there.

 

[RVN]

At least he getting what he never got here which is a fair opportunity.

 

[jsp]

At least he getting what he never got here which is a fair opportunity.

if he played like that when on the pitch in a Utd shirt he’d have had more chances.

The reason chances were limited was because when he played he often did bugger all.

 

[RVN]

if he played like that when on the pitch in a Utd shirt he’d have had more chances.

The reason chances were limited was because when he played he often did bugger all.

I do agree with you but you can't underestimate the feeling of a manager believing in you and wanting you in their team.

 

[SuperRash]

I agree to some extent about him not taking his chances when playing for us under Ole - however he surely knew he wasn’t favoured and that’s got to hit your confidence. Plus he was usually given a few minutes here and a few minutes there. Granted he got some starts and didn’t perform - but the team was so poorly coached and had very little direction that it would have been hard for a lot of players to come in and make an impression.

 

[jsp]

His problem at Utd has always been Bruno he was never going to take his spot and with the freedom Bruno is given you want two solid centre mids behind that which he just isn't.

Maybe a new manager might favour VDB over Bruno but I just can't see a system where those two ever fit in the team together.

 

[Justin Cider]

His problem at Utd has always been Bruno he was never going to take his spot and with the freedom Bruno is given you want two solid centre mids behind that which he just isn't.

Maybe a new manager might favour VDB over Bruno but I just can't see a system where those two ever fit in the team together.

Well he should be in a secure unit then, and not Managing Manchester United, and I say that as a fan of the lad(VdB)

 

[jsp]

Well he should be in a secure unit then, and not Managing Manchester United, and I say that as a fan of the lad(VdB)

Scholes highlighted the problems Bruno can cause and if we're going for Ten Haag or Poch who want players to operate in a system rather than as individuals Bruno will be a problem.

Bruno is a great player but when he is a problem in a system because he needs freedom to be at his best.

 

[Justin Cider]

Scholes highlighted the problems Bruno can cause and if we're going for Ten Haag or Poch who want players to operate in a system rather than as individuals Bruno will be a problem.

Bruno is a great player but when he is a problem in a system because he needs freedom to be at his best.

So does Donny, and he seemed to fit in well in Ten Haag's system at Ajax.

 

[jsp]

So does Donny, and he seemed to fit in well in Ten Haag's system at Ajax.

Donny fit the system though Ten Haag played 4-2-3-1 and the 10 had a more defined role from what I've read he wasn't allowed to go wherever the hell he wanted and try whatever he wanted.

This is what Bruno currently seems to do when the team is chasing a goal he loses his discipline and that's a problem as he leaves a huge gap in the middle of the pitch which is why teams bounce through us so easily.

 

[SuperRash]

Scholes highlighted the problems Bruno can cause and if we're going for Ten Haag or Poch who want players to operate in a system rather than as individuals Bruno will be a problem.

Bruno is a great player but when he is a problem in a system because he needs freedom to be at his best.

You know we’re not supposed to talk about Bruno.

 

[jsp]

You know we’re not supposed to talk about Bruno.

It's give and take with him if he's giving you 20 goals and 20 assists in a season you can live with the problems he creates from a defensive point of view but when he isn't giving us that the defensive stuff becomes a problem.

 

[Justin Cider]

Donny fit the system though Ten Haag played 4-2-3-1 and the 10 had a more defined role from what I've read he wasn't allowed to go wherever the hell he wanted and try whatever he wanted.

This is what Bruno currently seems to do when the team is chasing a goal he loses his discipline and that's a problem as he leaves a huge gap in the middle of the pitch which is why teams bounce through us so easily.

Has he been given a free role? I haven't noticed anything different in his game since he first came in the door.

 

[Justin Cider]

It's give and take with him if he's giving you 20 goals and 20 assists in a season you can live with the problems he creates from a defensive point of view but when he isn't giving us that the defensive stuff becomes a problem.

We're talking freaky numbers there, for any player, in any team, in any League, at any level.

Feel free to list all the players in Europe who regularly achieve that, I'll go put the kettle on ....

 

[jsp]

We're talking freaky numbers there, for any player, in any team, in any League, at any level.

Feel free to list all the players in Europe who regularly achieve that, I'll go put the kettle on ....

I may have over exagerrated for effect but the point for me stands you need a lot back from him in terms of goal contributions to use the current terminology to justify the freedom he is often given but in a 50 games season I'd be expecting 30+ goal contributions from him. Seperate point but I also think assists are a pretty useless statistic in football and I have no idea why they've become such a big thing to fans.

His goals were previously padded a bit by him being a pen taken in a team that got a lot of penalties something that has dried up for us this season plus Ronaldo seems to have had them off him. Good to see him bag one last night although I hear he also missed a sitter.

Bruno for me plays the 10 role in a very different way to VDB would play it. Not saying either way is wrong it just depends what a manager will want. If we go for a guy like Ten Haag/Poch my guess is they'll want players that follow instructions to the letter whereas our previous manager with Bruno gave him a lot of license to go where he wanted in attacking plays.

 

[Justin Cider]

I may have over exagerrated for effect but the point for me stands you need a lot back from him in terms of goal contributions to use the current terminology to justify the freedom he is often given but in a 50 games season I'd be expecting 30+ goal contributions from him. Seperate point but I also think assists are a pretty useless statistic in football and I have no idea why they've become such a big thing to fans.

His goals were previously padded a bit by him being a pen taken in a team that got a lot of penalties something that has dried up for us this season plus Ronaldo seems to have had them off him. Good to see him bag one last night although I hear he also missed a sitter.

Bruno for me plays the 10 role in a very different way to VDB would play it. Not saying either way is wrong it just depends what a manager will want. If we go for a guy like Ten Haag/Poch my guess is they'll want players that follow instructions to the letter whereas our previous manager with Bruno gave him a lot of license to go where he wanted in attacking plays.

The modern game is drowning in stats, the only important one is the one in the top left-hand corner of your TV screen, unless you've got your TV upside down obviously.

The fact that there are calls for the assister to the goal-assister to be credited won't please you much then.

We don't know that, Bruno might be taking it upon himself to do it knowing it would take a brave Manager to keep hooking him for not following instruction, moreso with him being a fans favourite.

Bruno learned the game in Italy and he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes if he couldn't follow instructions to the letter.

 

[jsp]

The modern game is drowning in stats, the only important one is the one in the top left-hand corner of your TV screen, unless you've got your TV upside down obviously.

The fact that there are calls for the assister to the goal-assister to be credited won't please you much then.

We don't know that, Bruno might be taking it upon himself to do it knowing it would take a brave Manager to keep hooking him for not following instruction, moreso with him being a fans favourite.

Bruno learned the game in Italy and he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes if he couldn't follow instructions to the letter.

In Italy I think he played more as a winger his explosion on the scene was back at Sporting where he was given that role just off the striker.

if you give him a very strict role I’m sure he can do it but do you lose the results if you do it?

 

[Justin Cider]

In Italy I think he played more as a winger his explosion on the scene was back at Sporting where he was given that role just off the striker.

if you give him a very strict role I’m sure he can do it but do you lose the results if you do it?

Dunno, but this time next year we should know. The next Manager may well find a way to fit both Bruno and vd Beek in the same team though we may have to switch to 3-5-2 to do that.

 

[jsp]

Dunno, but this time next year we should know. The next Manager may well find a way to fit both Bruno and vd Beek in the same team though we may have to switch to 3-5-2 to do that.

Think it’ll be hard to get VDB in the side with Bruno.

VDB I think excels in a team that dominates the ball for long periods whereas Bruno is full throttle and risk taking you will never keep the ball well with him in the side as he just wants to go for the killer move every time.

 

[Justin Cider]

Think it’ll be hard to get VDB in the side with Bruno.

VDB I think excels in a team that dominates the ball for long periods whereas Bruno is full throttle and risk taking you will never keep the ball well with him in the side as he just wants to go for the killer move every time.

We'll see, but if EtH comes in he'll want to give van Beek a chance unless he loves it so much at Everton(always a possibility)he wants to stay there, and it would take a brave guy to phase out a fans favourite(Bruno) to play his fellow countryman more so if there isn't an instant upturn in results/performances.

 

[jsp]

We'll see, but if EtH comes in he'll want to give van Beek a chance unless he loves it so much at Everton(always a possibility)he wants to stay there, and it would take a brave guy to phase out a fans favourite(Bruno) to play his fellow countryman more so if there isn't an instant upturn in results/performances.

Yeah that's always been my issue with the VDB signing why did we spent £40m on a backup for a guy who we know plays pretty much every game. Like many signings it created one rather than solved on.

Sancho is going this way to he was supposed to give us a quality option on the right but he's ended up looking much better on the left leaving the same gap on the right especially with Greenwood out the picture.

I don't see VDB wanting to stay if he does and finds himself on the bench again he'll miss the world cup having already missed the euros. I think he'll push for a move in the summer if the loan goes well and I think Utd should be brave and sell him. Unless the new manager says he clearly wants him as a starting player.