Season Review - Central Defenders

[jsp]

So season is now over time to continue with the season review of the first team players

I'll split the defenders into two groups as there's so many of them so first up is the centre backs. So give you rating out of 10 and if you want a brief comment about why you've given that rating.

Maguire ~ 8/10. Think he's made a massive difference at the back this season easy to forget the season before was our worst defensive season in 30 years Maguire seems to have plugged that gap. Brings leadership to the defence, he's brilliant on the ball, dominates in the air in the box. Little bit vulnerable to pace so can be caught but he protects himself well from that. The price tag which he didn't set puts a big weight on his shoulders but I think he's carried it well through the season.

Lindelöf ~ 6/10. Just not convinced by him think he's two weak to be a premier league centre back. He's good on the ball which helps when we always play short from the back but as a defender just not really convinced by him.

Bailly ~ 4/10. Think he's played well when he's been called upon just hasn't been able to stay fit and for me that brings you down a lot.

Tuanzebe ~ 4/10. Same as Bailly really just hasn't been able to stay fit were some promising games early in the season looked like he might actually oust Lindelöf as the starter at one point but don't think we've seen him since Xmas.

Jones ~ 3/10. Feel sorry for the bloke should have been moved on years ago instead he's given new contracts which he'd be a fool not to sign. He gives it his all when he comes in but the body is broken so he never seems to stick around for more than a few games. I hope he gets a move this summer and maybe rediscovers his form because he isn't the laughing stock social media makes him out to be just look at how well Smalling has done in Rome.

 

[Mr C]

not sure how Maguire gets an 8 and Lindelof a 6.

Harry has made more mistakes costing goals I would say, I sometimes think, becasue our CB isn't the best, fans pick on Lindelof because he's not English and he was around in the Jose debacle days. He is the better defender and player for me.

 

[boothstownred]

I pretty much agree with jsp assessment. Interesting rojo doesn't even get mention. If we could get rid of Rojo, jones, and smalling and bring in one quality centre half I would extremely happy.

 

[jsp]

not sure how Maguire gets an 8 and Lindelof a 6.

Harry has made more mistakes costing goals I would say, I sometimes think, becasue our CB isn't the best, fans pick on Lindelof because he's not English and he was around in the Jose debacle days. He is the better defender and player for me.

Lindelöf for me just isn't up to it I've watch him for 3 seasons now I just don't rate him as a defender. In a physical duel he's to easily beaten part of being a centre back is being able to dominate your opponent I honestly don't see those qualities in Lindelöf. He's got a lot better than he was in his first season where he was horrendous but for me he's just not at the top level.

As I said in my rating Maguire has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes he's not perfect but I think he's made a massive difference at the back this season.

So here's the stats (league only) head to head Maguire (left) Lindelöf (right)

Games 38 vs 35
Blocks 22 vs 16
Interceptions 72 vs 26
Tackles 37 vs 29
Tackles Won 23 vs 15
Clearances 157 vs 122
Headed Clearances 94 vs 58
Aerial Battles Won 176 vs 96
Error leading to goal 0 vs 0

Passes 2519 vs 2094
Pass Completion 86.66 vs 86.49
Dispossessed 6 vs 4

Fouls 33 vs 22
Penalties Conceded 0 vs 0

So basically they've both pretty even on the ball but Maguire does a lot more defending.

 

[jsp]

I pretty much agree with jsp assessment. Interesting rojo doesn't even get mention. If we could get rid of Rojo, jones, and smalling and bring in one quality centre half I would extremely happy.

Did Rojo even play a game this season before going on loan?

Yeah I'd even sell Bailly if we got a decent offer got no time for players who can't stay fit.

 

[boothstownred]

I don't think I have seen him now you mention him. I think we need 4 centre halfs in the squad. The new man plus harry and lindelof are 3. I would probably count bailly and tuanzebe as the other one as we would probably get half a season from each. But yeah I wouldn't be against selling bailly if they could get decent money.

 

[RichH2016]

I think CB is a real issue for United and one they need to address again this summer. I think a new CB and a new attacking option need to be the real priority. If they get that they may finish 3rd next year, if not they'll be fighting for fourth with the way that Chelsea are spending.

Maguire is good, very good in fact but he's not world class. I personally never really saw what the fuss was all about at the World Cup. He needs someone alongside him with pace too.

Lindelof is a squad player at best, he lacks pace and physicality which is important in the EPL. If I were United I'd see if there were any potential buyers and move him on. I think he'd be better off in another league but still at a good club.

Bailly can't stay healthy and Axel unfortunately continues to struggle with injury issues.

 

[IDFD]

Lindelöf for me just isn't up to it I've watch him for 3 seasons now I just don't rate him as a defender. In a physical duel he's to easily beaten part of being a centre back is being able to dominate your opponent I honestly don't see those qualities in Lindelöf. He's got a lot better than he was in his first season where he was horrendous but for me he's just not at the top level.

As I said in my rating Maguire has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes he's not perfect but I think he's made a massive difference at the back this season.

So here's the stats (league only) head to head Maguire (left) Lindelöf (right)

Games 38 vs 35
Blocks 22 vs 16
Interceptions 72 vs 26
Tackles 37 vs 29
Tackles Won 23 vs 15
Clearances 157 vs 122
Headed Clearances 94 vs 58
Aerial Battles Won 176 vs 96
Error leading to goal 0 vs 0

Passes 2519 vs 2094
Pass Completion 86.66 vs 86.49
Dispossessed 6 vs 4

Fouls 33 vs 22
Penalties Conceded 0 vs 0

So basically they've both pretty even on the ball but Maguire does a lot more defending.

Those stats are pretty damning for Lindelof. Maguire beats him at every metric. I don’t get the Lindelof is the better defender argument. Maguire has made a massive difference to us defensively.

Maguire missed a game maybe the league cup first leg against City and it highlighted just how much we need him and I don’t think he’s missed a game since.

 

[jsp]

Those stats are pretty damning for Lindelof. Maguire beats him at every metric. I don’t get the Lindelof is the better defender argument. Maguire has made a massive difference to us defensively.

Maguire missed a game maybe the league cup first leg against City and it highlighted just how much we need him and I don’t think he’s missed a game since.

Not gonna lie those stats shocked me I thought it would be closer than it was.

Yeah I can't recall the game either but we were all over the place at the back it was comical and like you say since then he's played every minutes of every game.

 

[Mr C]

for someone who doesn't like stats, you sure post a lot of stats

 

[jsp]

for someone who doesn't like stats, you sure post a lot of stats

I don't like people who only rely on stats.

Judge something by eye I only looked at the stats to check and make sure I wasn't being bias and the stats seem to back up my point Lindelöf can pass the ball about with the best of them but when asked to actually do some defending he fails. For me he's a passenger not worth carrying.

 

[Mr C]

When I see the games, Maguire looks a liability too.

Maybe they both need changing.

 

[jsp]

Said before I see them as a pair and just think that pair doesn't work.

Both good centre backs in my opinion Maguire is a better player just don't think Lindelöf is the right partner for him.

Hard to know if Ole really fancies it as a partnership either because for most of the season he's not really had another fit centre back to give a run of games to. The other 3 have all had injury problems so he's had to stick with it.

To me on paper Bailly is almost the perfect partner for Maguire he's very good on the ball but he's got the speed and aggression that I think Lindelöf lacks but he's made of glass breaks down every 4 or 5 games so you just can't rely on him.

Can't think of many players who shake off those sort of injury problems.

 

[Red Warrior]

Maguire - 7
Had shored us up well but he seems to be nervous at times and I can't put my finger on why. I think with a stronger CB we will see him flourish and become the leader we need.

Lindelof - 5.5
After 3 seasons I don't think he is a top 4 player. Capable enough but no quite elite, he's fit into a Spurs or Everton side nicely. Time to replace or him to be back up.

Bailly ?
Just not seen enough of him this season but my opinion of him stands the same. He is Mario Balotelli, brilliant but bonkers, a match winner or loser all in one go. I can't watch him without feeling he will give a penalty away or get sent off, I have no confidence when he is playing but by god, when he plays, he is damn good. Unfortunately that inconsistency and mistrust won't make him a top cb.

Rojo -
Not played. Same as Bailly but not as good. I do like his character but not good enough for a Utd player

Tuanzebe - ?
Not even sure what his best position is but he's been injured too much for too long

Smalling
Good servant but he's in the past. Not good enough.

Jones - 0
Enough said. Go.

We need get the all the deadwood and ship them out. We need a starting cb to partner Maguire, simple.

 

[O-Dog]

I think Smaling gets a rough ride; he's our second best CB.

I'd keep Lindelof as back-up and sell the rest. Need a new partner for Maguire, who's had a good season.

 

[RichH2016]

When I see the games, Maguire looks a liability too.

Maybe they both need changing.

I have never seen the fascination with him. I thought United overpaid for him. He's a good CB but he's not world class and I don't think he ever will be. He cost what he cost because United were desperate and he's English.

People go on about how good on the ball he is. I'm not sure he's that good but he's willing to come out with the ball, there's a difference.

 

[Mr C]

I have never seen the fascination with him. I thought United overpaid for him. He's a good CB but he's not world class and I don't think he ever will be. He cost what he cost because United were desperate and he's English.

People go on about how good on the ball he is. I'm not sure he's that good but he's willing to come out with the ball, there's a difference.

agreed, he cost more than Van Dyke!

Lindelof is much better on the ball. I think Maguire was a bit of a waste of money. I think probably we could have bought better. He's ok, but he's not great.

 

[IDFD]

Maguire is massively under rated on this forum.

Other than Van Dijk there isn’t a defender in the league that’s clearly better than him. You could make an argument for Laporte and then no one else.

 

[RichH2016]

agreed, he cost more than Van Dyke!

Lindelof is much better on the ball. I think Maguire was a bit of a waste of money. I think probably we could have bought better. He's ok, but he's not great.

I wouldn't disagree with you there at all. I think Maguire is very good, he's just not elite.

 

[Mr C]

Maguire is massively under rated on this forum.

Other than Van Dijk there isn’t a defender in the league that’s clearly better than him. You could make an argument for Laporte and then no one else.

Just consider Van Dyke, he makes everyone around him better. If Maguire was that good, we wouldn't be moaning about Lindelof. I don't see one of those better than the other, they are both ok. I don't think our inexperienced full backs help to be honest.

 

[IDFD]

Maguire can’t suddenly make him have pace or strength and make him not scared of heading a long ball clear.

 

[jsp]

Who are the elites?

Van Dijk is clearly a very special player I don't think there's another centre back out there right now who can touch him that guy is the full package as a centre half. Liverpool got themselves a Rio Ferdinand.

Ramos and Pique probably the two most dominant CB's of the last decade in Europe are both on the decline. Hummels and Boateng both the same best years are behind them. Varane still in his prime probably the only one who I can think of at a top club who is absolute top draw but even he had a meltdown vs City.

There's some up and comers like De Ligt and that French guy at Leipzig but the game isn't full of totally dominant centre backs right now.

With Maguire you really have to ignore the price tag it was to high but Utd had to pay it, if you could get him for £50m he wouldn't be playing for us because City or Liverpool will have signed him we only got to the front of the queue for him because we could pay over the odds.

I honestly think Maguire walks into any team in the world apart from Atletico (he's not a Simeone type guy) and he does make everyone around him better both Shaw and Lindelöf have looked better this season but even Van Dijk couldn't stop them both being complete liabilities every now and again.

 

[Cosmic Slop]

My favorite CB pairing was Rio and Vidic. Silk and steel. Their skills complemented each other. Their partnership also had one of them being first to the ball and the other covering. I think Maguire and Lindelof also try to play this way, which is why Maguire sits more and Lindelof attacks the ball more. Anyway, my ratings:

Maguire: 6. I don't see him as markedly better than any of the CBs we face every week. We needed a new CB, and we got one, and he improved our defense. I think we overpaid for him and there were probably better players available, but we were in a panic and we bought. I think he's trying to play like John Terry (sorry) but can't command the box, and his reaction speeds are too slow. (I dislike Terry as a person, but he was a very good CB.) If Maguire is to be the steelier of the 2 CBs, when you compare him to Vidic it's laughable to think Maguire belongs in the same category.

Lindelof: 6.5. I think he's better than Maguire but his partnership with him does not produce the required level. I see him as more capable with the ball at his feet and less likely to get caught upfield out of position. He might be less of a header than Maguire. Lindelof is faster and a better passer, and he reads the game as well as if not better than Maguire.

Bailly: 5. Brainless. Makes the occasional gasp-inducing tackle but he's mercurial. I don't trust him to get it right. Not good enough anyway.

Rojo: 2. liability. Sell.

The rest of them: sell, give away, forget.

 

[RichH2016]

I think Maguire and Lindelof also try to play this way, which is why Maguire sits more and Lindelof attacks the ball more

So I would agree with you although surely they'd be better doing it the other way around? Maguire being better at attacking the ball and Lindelof with a little more pace?

 

[Cosmic Slop]

So I would agree with you although surely they'd be better doing it the other way around? Maguire being better at attacking the ball and Lindelof with a little more pace?

I may have mangled what I was trying to say. To me, it looks like when there's a situation where one of them has to decide who goes to the ball and who is cover, it looks like Lindelof goes to the ball and Maguire sits. Aerial threat is maybe different. Maguire goes to head the ball more than Lindelof.

 

[JSNFRMN]

I think Maguire would be great with a partner who has the qualities that he doesn't, pace is the big issue and Lindelof doesn't have it either, I think he's looked better alongside Bailly but his injury record means he hasn't been available or able to play regularly when he is available. Thought last summer that Tuanzebe would be a great partner for him but hasn't materialised due to injury.

He's still had a very good first season in my opinion, played nearly every single game despite having a hip injury for much of it which may still be causing him an issue. I'd probably give him a 7/10.

Lindelof constantly gets caught out on the wrong side, I also find him to be too weak and lacking aggression. Arrived at the club with The Iceman nickname and after 3 seasons i'm more inclined to believe that's due to melting under pressure rather than being cool under pressure.

 

[Red Warrior]

I think Bailly has the right attributes to be the perfect partner, quick, strong, good in the air, brave, good at tackling etc but for the reasons I have put above (plus others have said this) he can't be trusted. I think that Napoli CB Koulibally would be perfect but just too old now. Uppemecano looks pretty physical too. Lindeloff just isn't these things, he's too frail all round