Premier League 2020/21: West Brom vs Man Utd. Sun 14th Feb 2pm KO

[IDFD]

Well we certainly should be. And if we aren't good enough to routinely win games like these then Ole really isn't the man. It's a shocking performance and quite frankly isn't good enough. The talent that's on that pitch needs to win the game and Ole needs to stop hiding behind the same starting 11. There are a few that should be dropped arguably 5 in the starting 11. It's time to stop being Mr. Nice Guy and drop players that aren't performing.

The result I can see saying it happened but the same mistakes from the same players going unpunished by Ole is infuriating.

 

[Cosmic Slop]

That was the most biased refereeing I've seen since Ovrebo denied Chelsea three penalties (one was dubious but the other two were nailed on). Lindelof and Maguire were both fouled, and the commentators chalked that off to Diagne "wanting it more". Ridiculous. At the other end, Maguire was fouled three times (even though he should have been ruled offside). Beyond that, WBA were kicking us up and down the pitch, and at least one of those fouls (the rake down Rashford's achilles) should have been red.

It's hard to overcome things when it's that much against you. Their goals should have been ruled out and Bruno's should have been the winner.

I think our approach play needs to be recalibrated. Too often we try to get a wide player (Shaw, AWB) behind their back 4 and then whip in a cross from about the 6 yard box. We should be crossing early 30 yards out, crossing forward and inviting our forwards to attack the ball and hit it first time. WBA did this to us a couple times and caught us out completely.

Luke Shaw and McTominay had good matches.

When Martial was shown about 10 minutes in, I realized they hadn't called his name once, and he probably didn't touch the ball during that first 10 minutes - that's how anonymous he was. He was not alone. Rashford is looking more like Lingard with each passing day. Greenwood was much sharper and should be starting over both Martial and Rashford. I don't even think Cavani should be looked at beyond this season. He shows us what a proper CF can do, and we need to go get one. He's still got some life left in him but we need better.

Our centerbacks were awful. Fred was awful. He did have one neat turn in the middle of the pitch when he did a two-touch spin through two players. Other than that, it was like having someone play in a position they aren't familiar with, like making a midfielder play defense. Bruno had a great goal but otherwise had a very erratic day.

If Maguire's header hadn't been touched onto the post, or if the Greenwood-McTominay efforts hadn't... we should have won. Trying to make the top 4 race interesting.

 

[Judgeman56]

Welcome and hard to argue with a lot of that but Bruno could start every day by kicking me in the nuts and I’d still not have a bad word said against him he’s a blinder.

I'm not saying he hasn't been great but you have to see the bad not just the the good and he hasn't played well against the top 4 teams .I would say there are too many inferior players around him.

 

[Mr C]

Rashfords problem is he's being made to play right to accommodate Martial

 

[IDFD]

I think Ole now has to say the front 3 is Cavani Rashford and Greenwood and Martial will get a chance in the cups to prove he can take a space off of one of those 3. But Rashford always starts from the left if playing.

 

[jsp]

Yeah I’d be starting Rashford Cavani Greenwood in the league let Martial James and AN Other take the cup/Europa games.

The ref and VAR official were poor I’ve lost track of what they’re doing now thought it was all clear and obvious not trying to interfere but today they missed a clear and obvious foul on our defender for a goal and a clear and obvious foul on our player for a penalty.

I do think the standard of refereeing in the PL is getting worse.

 

[Cosmic Slop]

Greenwood has looked sharper than Martial but has scored once in 17, or something like that. Rashford has been off the boil for awhile, maybe get him back on the left. Today we could have had one holding midfielder and played 2 up top. Would this work:

---------------------Cavani--------------------
Rashford------Bruno------VDB--------Diallo
----------------McTominay--------------------
Shaw-----Donkey 1----Donkey 2-------AWB
--------------------DeGea--------------------

?

 

[Mr C]

We are too prédictible which is why we can't break these teams down.

Should never have started Fred and Mctom. VDB confidence is shot, I'd have started him today with Matic or Mctom

 

[jsp]

I really don't think the problem was the midfield the defence let in a soft goal and the front 4 hardly created anything and when the ball flashed across the box 3 or 4 times from wide areas no one gambling at the back post. McTominay almost scored the winner and second half was driving forward creating problems.

The reason we lost that game is the strikers the 3 who started just didn't impact the game at all Bruno provided a worldie goal but other than that was quiet but the front 3 did less than nothing. Don't think anyone of them created a chance or had a shot in the entire 90 minutes despite loads of possession.

Cavani I thought battled hard in the middle but nothing fell for him all game had his standard swing and a miss at a cross but the two wide players who started were dreadful.

 

[IDFD]

You need a midfield that create chances for the strikers though. A central midfielder at United needs to be able to complete a 5 yard pass with ease. It shouldn't be a problem.

Fred is loved by the staff but he shouldn't be playing currently. McTominay is getting an easy ride but he wasn't good yesterday either. Both of them wanted about 20 minutes on the ball before playing a 7 yard pass to Maguire opening he'd open them up.

 

[jsp]

Yes the midfield can do more but for me it's on the strikers they are absolutely terrible at the back and neither of our wingers could create anything against really poor full backs. The full backs for us created some chances but they weren't there to take them.

Fred is an issue but he's an easy target I don't think he's responsible for the silly goals we concede and shouldn't be scapegoated for our attacking players not taking chances or not being able to create chances. His passing could be quicker but I think at times that is being used as a convenient excuse.

I do think a question has to be asked of Ole for constantly playing Rashford on the right when it clearly doesn't work but he only really has Greenwood out there who can play the role so he has to pick and chose the games he plays him.

 

[jsp]

Get your head around this one lads.

Law 11 of the game if you are fouled before you play or attempt to play the ball even if you are offside the foul takes precedence and is punished.

This is why when they looked at VAR they never checked the offside so they have decided that the arm on the shoulder plus the tangle of legs is not a foul and that the ref who awarded the penalty has made a "clear and obvious" error. The ref has then watched it again and decided it is not a foul.

So under the current rules

The defender lets him go Maguire gets to the ball and Utd score VAR steps in offside.
The defender lets him go and Maguire doesn't reach the ball no offside because he never reaches the ball.
If the defender fouls the player and stops him attempting to get to the ball before the foul stands regardless of that player starting in an offside position of not.

Someone needs to get a grip on the laws of the game as they are a joke.

 

[Mr C]

the problem with playing Mctom and Fred, is there is no creativity, it either goes to Bruno, or goes wide for a cross.

For games like that we need more guille in the middle, which is why we struggle. Which is why I would have played DVB. Mainly because the is no one else. We also need to move the ball quicker in these games, it's alright blaming the front 3 but by the time the ball gets to them the opposition are set.

Finally, playing Martial practically rules out 2 players, him because his form has hit the rails, again, and Rashford who is wasted out right. In the games I have seen recently Greenwood should start, he really goes for the defence, puts a bit of panic back there.

 

[jsp]

I think the issue with the VDB argument is his performances don't make you pick him he has been innefective whenever he's played the "idea" of VDB doesn't match up with the "reality" of what he is offering on the pitch. If there were even flashes you could say yeah play him but currently every time he steps on a pitch he looks lost it's been a really tough first season for him.

Those wide players are good enough to create problems one vs one we've seen it before and with the full backs offering themselves for overlaps to there's enough movement to cause problems the issue was simply the tricks didn't work and I felt like they gave up trying.

Can't argue over Martial he is so bad right now he's actually creating two problems for us but we didn't sort the wide players out in the summer and maybe it's finally hitting us where it hurts. The two kids we did sign have not played a minute of first team football yet we hope with Diallo he's ready because boy do we need him to make an impact and spark some life back into this team.

 

[Mr C]

I think with DVB, he's got so little confidence, it's like he's playing expecting to go off.

We should have played him yesterday and told him he'll get the full 90. We need to build that confidence up or we'll lose money.

i think he could be a decent little player, but we've kind of killed his game.

 

[jsp]

I don't think it's that easy you can't say here have a whole game no pressure because there is pressure VDB needs to handle that pressure and perform his job so that he isn't the first man hooked when the subs come. His performances to me don't justify more chances he'll probably get a start on Thursday he needs to do something to make the manager think he's worth starting when he gets the chance as others are playing well enough to keep him out the team.

Could be other issues we don't know about that Ole is managing even had VDB started he would have probably had to start with Fred to give the team a bit of balance. It seems like Pogba/McTominay are the current favourites for that more attacking role in the midfield 2 with either Fred/Matic as the more disciplined defensive player. VDB for me has got to show on the pitch that he's better than them in either of those roles because right now he isn't showing it and he's got nil chance of shifting Bruno from that number 10 spot.

Reality of yesterday is if the VAR does the job we don't go 1-0 down and probably win the game comfortably but the VAR allowed the goal to stand and Utd struggled to recover from it so there's now a massive inquest into everything.

Fred is a limited footballer and he annoys me but he was not the main reason for yesterday being a disaster.

1) Awful referee decisions
2) Terrible play by the attacking players against the worst defence in the league they created zilch between the lot of them.
3) Weak defending by Lindelof on the first goal

 

[Mr C]

If Fred is a first choice starter, add that to the list of positions needed. So If Pogba goes, two midfielders on top of all the rest. It's looking like we are least two years off a proper challenge.

I mean if DVB can't do a better job than Fred, then he can go too. The guy is terrible

 

[jsp]

VDB has been seriously disappointing so far happy to offer some mitigation that he’s not had a run of games and very few starts but his actual performances are the sort of performances we used to hammer Periera over last year.

At the moment it’s looking like a terrible bit of business where you have to think Utd might have to correct this quickly and get him straight out the door in the summer.