Sideshow Bob
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Mourinho aims for immediate success but is at Old Trafford for the long haul
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Really interesting article that.
And it is an overlooked fact that actually in his career he's swapped clubs twice due to it being a no brainer and twice because he was sacked by the same man.
I do get frustrated when Jose is seen as this 3 year coach but Pep isn't given the same tag. Yet that very much appears to be Peps way...
Nobody can blame Jose for leaving Porto when he did. He'd literally achieved it all with them so why stay? The Premier League is one of the most desired places to play and manage... Who would turn that down? And then when Real come calling you don't turn them down. You certainly don't turn them down when you faced with a press in Italy who gave Jose a really hard time for the most part.
I'm not saying Jose will be here for 5+ years. In fact I don't think he will be... But those days are gone in football. A managers shelf life at a club is much shorter these days. It's a results driven business and that means if results start to go stale changes will be made.
And it is an overlooked fact that actually in his career he's swapped clubs twice due to it being a no brainer and twice because he was sacked by the same man.
I do get frustrated when Jose is seen as this 3 year coach but Pep isn't given the same tag. Yet that very much appears to be Peps way...
Nobody can blame Jose for leaving Porto when he did. He'd literally achieved it all with them so why stay? The Premier League is one of the most desired places to play and manage... Who would turn that down? And then when Real come calling you don't turn them down. You certainly don't turn them down when you faced with a press in Italy who gave Jose a really hard time for the most part.
I'm not saying Jose will be here for 5+ years. In fact I don't think he will be... But those days are gone in football. A managers shelf life at a club is much shorter these days. It's a results driven business and that means if results start to go stale changes will be made.
O-Dog
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José Mourinho aims to earn a '15-year' stay at Manchester United
“I am ready for this,” Mourinho told ESPN. “I am ready for the next 15, I would say. Here? Yes, why not? I have to admit that it is very difficult because of the pressure around our jobs, everybody putting pressure on managers and things that people say – that we have to win – but in reality only one can win and every year it is getting more difficult.
“But what I try to do in the club is show that my work goes further than the football results, that it goes to areas that people don’t think of as a manager’s job. In my vision, my job is much more than what I do on the pitch and the results that my team gets at the weekend.”
What he says makes a lot of sense. Hope Jose gets the success he's working hard for.“But what I try to do in the club is show that my work goes further than the football results, that it goes to areas that people don’t think of as a manager’s job. In my vision, my job is much more than what I do on the pitch and the results that my team gets at the weekend.”
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I think he's now at a club where it could happen as there aren't background politics to deal with the manager at Utd is basically allowed to get on with it and judged on his results.
However, we've heard this before when he came back to Chelsea he was talking about a dynasty but he had a bad summer where the club didn't land his targets and the whole thing went bang quickly as it regularly does with him so it's kind of a I'll believe it when I see it.
There will come a point where the board/owners say hang on we can't keep spending £200m every summer in the pursuit of glory and it'll be how he reacts to that.
He got a free pass last season as following LVG was probably easier than following Moyes we'd been bored to death by LVG in that final season so even though the results were awful at home the fact we created chances was enough to keep fans on side but next season if the results don't come the fans will turn on him.
I don't think he has to deliver the title next season but he certainly has to put up a convincing fight for it Utd were 24 points off top last season which is not acceptable but if he can get that gap under 10 then I think that's progress.
However, we've heard this before when he came back to Chelsea he was talking about a dynasty but he had a bad summer where the club didn't land his targets and the whole thing went bang quickly as it regularly does with him so it's kind of a I'll believe it when I see it.
There will come a point where the board/owners say hang on we can't keep spending £200m every summer in the pursuit of glory and it'll be how he reacts to that.
He got a free pass last season as following LVG was probably easier than following Moyes we'd been bored to death by LVG in that final season so even though the results were awful at home the fact we created chances was enough to keep fans on side but next season if the results don't come the fans will turn on him.
I don't think he has to deliver the title next season but he certainly has to put up a convincing fight for it Utd were 24 points off top last season which is not acceptable but if he can get that gap under 10 then I think that's progress.
maxt7
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Saying it is one thing but doing it is completely different. I dont doubt he wants to stay long term and like JSP says as long as there is progression year on year I think the fans will be happy. The fact that there aren't really too many other mangers around like Jose means the club will want to keep him as well, again if there progression. If Jose is going to make this job stick then his got to follow the same footsteps as SAF. His got to trust and invest in the youth setup that has made this club as special as it is. His got to stick to an attacking style of play as often as possible. And his got to balance all of that while winning trophies.
In my opinion the only competition for Jose longer term is Giggs. He would all like him to come back and complete his story. But Giggs has got to go earn his stripes sooner rather then later somewhere. We cant take that gamble with an unsuccessful manager like we did with Moyes because it sets you back years. We are still paying the price for moyes now.
In my opinion the only competition for Jose longer term is Giggs. He would all like him to come back and complete his story. But Giggs has got to go earn his stripes sooner rather then later somewhere. We cant take that gamble with an unsuccessful manager like we did with Moyes because it sets you back years. We are still paying the price for moyes now.
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According to Football 365 he said he'd stay at Chelsea for 10 years 7 months later he got sacked he starts making these noises when he wants a new contract it's the whole I'm ready to commit are you stick. He's 1 year into I think a 3 year deal so he's looking to renew as he knows he'll probably be sacked at some point so he's looking for the maximum pay out.
Utd should be happy to call his bluff and we'll discuss a new deal at the end of next season you can't give him an extension when he's just delivered a 6th place finish our 2nd worst league finish in 25 seasons and he's the best paid manager in our history and one of the best paid managers in the world. I'd tell him put us back on top next season and you can have a brand new contract. The only job he'd potentially walk out on us for is if the Madrid job became available again I think he'd love to give that one another crack but not sure he can go back until the likes of Ronaldo & Ramos are gone.
I don't think Utd can appoint an ex player Giggs needs to build his rep as a manager somewhere before he even gets a chance in my opinion and Giggs himself this week has said he's enjoyed a bit of time off but will start looking at jobs next season as and when they come up. He claims he only applied for 1 job which was the Swansea job everything else was just press rumour.
I think the days of thinking about dynasty's are over you're looking at 3-5 year cycles with managers now the players have to much control now and eventually things will go wrong and there's no way of turning the ship back around once it does the reality is as a manager you wait to get sacked, collect the payout and move on to the next one.
Utd should be happy to call his bluff and we'll discuss a new deal at the end of next season you can't give him an extension when he's just delivered a 6th place finish our 2nd worst league finish in 25 seasons and he's the best paid manager in our history and one of the best paid managers in the world. I'd tell him put us back on top next season and you can have a brand new contract. The only job he'd potentially walk out on us for is if the Madrid job became available again I think he'd love to give that one another crack but not sure he can go back until the likes of Ronaldo & Ramos are gone.
I don't think Utd can appoint an ex player Giggs needs to build his rep as a manager somewhere before he even gets a chance in my opinion and Giggs himself this week has said he's enjoyed a bit of time off but will start looking at jobs next season as and when they come up. He claims he only applied for 1 job which was the Swansea job everything else was just press rumour.
I think the days of thinking about dynasty's are over you're looking at 3-5 year cycles with managers now the players have to much control now and eventually things will go wrong and there's no way of turning the ship back around once it does the reality is as a manager you wait to get sacked, collect the payout and move on to the next one.
O-Dog
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You're too cynical JSP.
maxt7
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Eventually managers are going to have to get time to build a 'dynasty' again. The age of sacking managers will have to stop. The reason I say this is because every new manager comes into a club with new ideas and new player lists. Like you alluded to earlier JSP, boards, chairman or investors cant keep spending £200 million a season at clubs. The only way to stop it is to give a proven successful manager time to build a dynasty. Max Allegri four years in at Juventus, their sides getting better and better over time. Klopp at Dortmund look where we took them over 7 years. Diego Simeone has worked wonders at Atletico. Over here Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche have transformed their clubs amazingly. I think its the only way to get us back to the top of the tree again. Not to panic if things go wrong.
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I think the reality is the manager is now seen more like a player the top clubs have boards who are making the long term football decisions and that is where Utd need to get themselves to they've already started some of that by seperating Mourinho from the academy & scouting teams and making them more independant. This was at his request I believe as he doesn't want to be bogged down in all of that stuff he'd rather focus on the first team and call on those departments when he needs their help.
As far as I can tell there are 2 top clubs in world football where the manager has full control of transfers Man Utd & Arsenal the reason for that is they had managers who did 20 year spells at one club and as a result those clubs haven't adopted the modern methods. Fergie & Wenger were more like Chief Execs than managers they oversaw way to much which makes them irreplaceable as there's no one out there doing that job anymore at elite level clubs.
The modern manager/coach has one sole focus which is first team results that's all he needs to think about as behind the scenes you have a team of other people who manage the scouting network, the analysis teams, the medical teams & the academy.
It's to much for one man to manage and when that one man goes it means you have to overhaul everything when you think about it the whole thing makes sense as long as it's done properly if you sack a manager you replace him with a manager who plays a similar style to how you play and a guy you feel can work with your players. You don't appoint a guy who's the complete opposite then requires 2-3 years to overhaul the squad. This is where Utd have gone wrong Moyes to LVG to Mourinho is 3 very different managers and it's cost a fortune Mourinho is basically replacing all the guys LVG purchased and probably wishes he had 3 or 4 of the guys LVG sold.
I think Utd probably accept this isn't a quick fix and it's a problem they've made for themselves with bad appointments and also bad player recruitment over 3 or 4 years it might take 3 or 4 years to undo all of that and get us back on top.
There's no reason why Mourinho couldn't have a long career at Utd but the track record kind of shows that eventually somewhere along the line he snaps over something and creates a toxic atmosphere where you have no option but to sack him. It's not just him it's the same with Guardiola, Conte and Klopp the magic only lasts so long before players get bored of the same methods especially with these super intense kinds of managers eventually the players will revolt and turn on them.
As far as I can tell there are 2 top clubs in world football where the manager has full control of transfers Man Utd & Arsenal the reason for that is they had managers who did 20 year spells at one club and as a result those clubs haven't adopted the modern methods. Fergie & Wenger were more like Chief Execs than managers they oversaw way to much which makes them irreplaceable as there's no one out there doing that job anymore at elite level clubs.
The modern manager/coach has one sole focus which is first team results that's all he needs to think about as behind the scenes you have a team of other people who manage the scouting network, the analysis teams, the medical teams & the academy.
It's to much for one man to manage and when that one man goes it means you have to overhaul everything when you think about it the whole thing makes sense as long as it's done properly if you sack a manager you replace him with a manager who plays a similar style to how you play and a guy you feel can work with your players. You don't appoint a guy who's the complete opposite then requires 2-3 years to overhaul the squad. This is where Utd have gone wrong Moyes to LVG to Mourinho is 3 very different managers and it's cost a fortune Mourinho is basically replacing all the guys LVG purchased and probably wishes he had 3 or 4 of the guys LVG sold.
I think Utd probably accept this isn't a quick fix and it's a problem they've made for themselves with bad appointments and also bad player recruitment over 3 or 4 years it might take 3 or 4 years to undo all of that and get us back on top.
There's no reason why Mourinho couldn't have a long career at Utd but the track record kind of shows that eventually somewhere along the line he snaps over something and creates a toxic atmosphere where you have no option but to sack him. It's not just him it's the same with Guardiola, Conte and Klopp the magic only lasts so long before players get bored of the same methods especially with these super intense kinds of managers eventually the players will revolt and turn on them.
maxt7
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When a manager hangs up his cap and calls it a day what warrants if his had a successful career? Titles? Longevity? Promotions? Never being relegated? Massively enhancing one clubs reputation? It's hard to tell what outweighs what. And there's probably no right or wrong answer.
Jose for me strikes me as someone who when he says he's done wants to have done as many of those things above as possible. His spoke of managing Portugal one day. But for where he is right now his done so well. He's won titles all across Europe in the best leagues. His put teams on the map and made them a force. So what's left to prove? I think in his head now he wants to build something over a longer period of time then the 2-3 years like he averages.
His signings at old Trafford are younger then in his previous sides. His playing teenagers. And like you said his having an input in the younger sides by talking to people like Nicky Butt and actually listening. His got a golden goose in the fact that the World biggest club has been going through a tough spell. So although we can't be enhanced we need putting back on top of the tree. If he can do that. And keep us there. Imagine how he will feel when he does call it a day?
I know it's a tough ask. In this climate it's rare anyone sees out a contract. But we are in a place now where we need stability. Jose is at a time in his career where he wants stability. Maybe the planets will all aline and Jose will be given time. It's Good to dream guys.
Jose for me strikes me as someone who when he says he's done wants to have done as many of those things above as possible. His spoke of managing Portugal one day. But for where he is right now his done so well. He's won titles all across Europe in the best leagues. His put teams on the map and made them a force. So what's left to prove? I think in his head now he wants to build something over a longer period of time then the 2-3 years like he averages.
His signings at old Trafford are younger then in his previous sides. His playing teenagers. And like you said his having an input in the younger sides by talking to people like Nicky Butt and actually listening. His got a golden goose in the fact that the World biggest club has been going through a tough spell. So although we can't be enhanced we need putting back on top of the tree. If he can do that. And keep us there. Imagine how he will feel when he does call it a day?
I know it's a tough ask. In this climate it's rare anyone sees out a contract. But we are in a place now where we need stability. Jose is at a time in his career where he wants stability. Maybe the planets will all aline and Jose will be given time. It's Good to dream guys.
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I think it's all relative to the clubs you work at the to managers who get the chance at the best clubs will be judged by league titles and european success whereas a guy like Allardyce who never got a shot at the top sides will point at his record of never being relegated. If Mourinho retired now he'd go down as one of the greats he's won the european cup twice at 2 different clubs and has won titles in 4 different countries. I guess it probably isn't for others to judge when you decide to call it a day as a manager it probably comes down to how you feel it went and did it fulfill you as a person I mean just making it to the top league in any country is a pretty big achievement that maybe gets lost of some people.
Red Warrior
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I'm gonna put my neck on the line and say Jose is too negative for Utd. I'd give him his obligatory 3 seasons max.
Jose I think will look at it as he needs to stay somewhere and do more than the 3 years and bed down for the long haul. I don't think his personaility allows for that though, when things go wrong Jose blames everyone but himself and that wont wash at Old Trafford.
A change of Jose's attitude could see him stay for a long time but not sure he is capable of that.
He needs to be The Happy One again, he looked so miserable at times last season.
Jose I think will look at it as he needs to stay somewhere and do more than the 3 years and bed down for the long haul. I don't think his personaility allows for that though, when things go wrong Jose blames everyone but himself and that wont wash at Old Trafford.
A change of Jose's attitude could see him stay for a long time but not sure he is capable of that.
He needs to be The Happy One again, he looked so miserable at times last season.
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To be fair @Red Warrior his dad was very ill last season and has actually passed away plus he's been living in a hotel away from his family so I don't think his off field situation was the best and no matter who you re personal issues will always have a knock on effect on your work life especially one where you constantly being judged in public. Also, he's always been a miserable bugger we probably didn't notice it as much when the teams winning every week.
On the wider issue I think you are right as always it probably will fold like a house of cards as it nearly always does when things start to go wrong but lets just hope he gets a league title in the bag before that happens or in the case or Porto/Inter he walks ways having lifted the European Cup.
I don't want him to be the happy one I want him to be the special one put us back on top.
On the wider issue I think you are right as always it probably will fold like a house of cards as it nearly always does when things start to go wrong but lets just hope he gets a league title in the bag before that happens or in the case or Porto/Inter he walks ways having lifted the European Cup.
I don't want him to be the happy one I want him to be the special one put us back on top.
maxt7
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I agree that at times last year we were negative in situations where maybe we didn't need to be. But Having said that we didn't have a squad or even a first 11 capable of going gung-ho against certain sides. So maybe that's why he set up more defensive in big matches?
In my opinion Jose is different to other managers because his capable of wining games in more then one way. He can take a 10 man inter to Barca just to stop them. He can set a team up on a counter attack. He can tactically do a number on a certain side like he did verses Chelsea. Or he can build a side to score goals like he did at Real. His not a klopp who only plays 'heavy metal' football that burns out after an hour. His not a conte who will only play 3-5-2. His not a pep who lives and dies by Tiki-Taka. Jose is a very versatile manager.
I think if we as fans and the board as a club give him time he can build something. Why wouldn't he want a successful versatile manager to stick around as long as possible? Especially if he wants to.
In my opinion Jose is different to other managers because his capable of wining games in more then one way. He can take a 10 man inter to Barca just to stop them. He can set a team up on a counter attack. He can tactically do a number on a certain side like he did verses Chelsea. Or he can build a side to score goals like he did at Real. His not a klopp who only plays 'heavy metal' football that burns out after an hour. His not a conte who will only play 3-5-2. His not a pep who lives and dies by Tiki-Taka. Jose is a very versatile manager.
I think if we as fans and the board as a club give him time he can build something. Why wouldn't he want a successful versatile manager to stick around as long as possible? Especially if he wants to.
Red Warrior
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Ha. He is right in what he is saying tho. It's not only Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal (though I can never take them seriously). Spurs are right up there, with Pool knocking. So potentially 7 teams could be in the mix this year. As long as results are resonalble against the top 5 or 6, we get CL every year and we are close on points to the top of the league Jose should be fine. Ending up where we did last year and he will be gone very soon. I'd dread to think how many points we lost draqwing with teams we should have won, actual losses to teams we should beat and better teams we should have played better against and didn't. I still shudder at some of the terrible negative performances we put in throughout the season then taught Chelsea a lesson in football. How can that be explained? It's like my school reports were, has lots of potential and when he uses it he does really well, he just doesn't use it very often!