European Premier League: Talks take place over new £4.6bn tournament

I'm not totally against it, I don't se why UEFA basically get a monopoly unchallanged, if the normal leagues go on as normal, and this replaces the CL then what does it matter. It needs some revisions about who can qualify. But like all things, money will make the league grow quicker than 20 clubs.
I do get fed up with UEFA and FIFA and their power, all they care is about money too, lets be honest.

All these ex players coming out moaning about it, who got rich on the back of the PL makes me laugh too. Football is a joke.
 
It shows the football association’s main priority too in my opinion. They have come out immediately in their condemnation for this yet a lot of issues on football have been swept under the carpet for years.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
First off, the ownership groups of City, Chelsea, Barca and Real want no part of profit sharing. Second, that’s exactly my point about competitive imbalance. The Glazers would love nothing more than to turn us into the Bucs. Don’t forget they had to be forced to spend the league minimum on salaries for years, and had no interest in being competitive until they lucked into Brady. Shoot me now if this happens.
Click to expand...

They do if it means it guaranteed profits as these clubs all run on low margins I just don't see how the Spanish clubs have gone ahead with this without consulting their members. The members must be furious about these changes as the members are generally traditionalists.

This new competition will allow them to set the rules which will largely be designed to make sure all the clubs make lots of money.

Guaranteed entry to the competition will allow some of the clubs to run on minimum budgets as there's no requirement to compete every season.

The thing is these clubs are so rich and powerful how do the domestic leagues actually kick them out?
 
Mr C said:
I'm not totally against it, I don't se why UEFA basically get a monopoly unchallanged, if the normal leagues go on as normal, and this replaces the CL then what does it matter. It needs some revisions about who can qualify. But like all things, money will make the league grow quicker than 20 clubs.
I do get fed up with UEFA and FIFA and their power, all they care is about money too, lets be honest.

All these ex players coming out moaning about it, who got rich on the back of the PL makes me laugh too. Football is a joke.
Click to expand...

Well UEFA is there to respesent the european nations and therefore the clubs they created a competition with the same rules for everyone based on competition you have to earn your spot in it which is a simple sporting idea. They are also elected officials so in theory if they do wrong they can be removed from power. UEFA also use some of the money generated by the CL to re-invest in the game at grass roots level through grants and try to make sure that smaller nations are given the money to grow and become more competitive. Every nation gets a chance to put forward their best team as well so it just feels a bit fairer even if the deck is stacked against these clubs from day one.

They are far from perfect but what the clubs are doing is totally wrong they are basically saying we don't need everyone else we're off and we're taking all the money with us. Some of these clubs have never even won a european cup they now get to be part of the super league ahead of clubs with storied histories in europe?

This all seems to come down to UEFA not allowing clubs to be guaranteed places in the competition every season. This alternative competition which offered more money and control suddenly became more enticing and they've gone for it because all they care about is money. Don't for one minute think those City owners aren't pumping money into City thinking they can get a big pay off down the line.

The owners of these clubs should not be allowed to make such changes to these clubs without consulting the fans but they've gone ahead and done it without us.

You can tell they know what the reaction is because neither Utd or City have announced this on any of their social media platforms as the fans are raging.

Yes there is a certain irony in Sky Sports being up in arms over the whole thing given how they were involved in the PL creation but the PL never closed the door on everyone else they might have taken a bigger share of the money but they never stopped new clubs joining.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
Saw a poorly worded version of this on Twitter:

old_plaque.jpg


The Glazers are trying to destroy a competition that these men gave their lives trying to win.
Click to expand...
To be honest. I find that in pretty poor taste.
 
The Italian trio and United have all left the European Club Association. Agnelli has resigned as its chairman.

Ed Woodward had withdrawn from his role in UEFA's professional football strategy council.

The Super League has issued legal notices to FIFA and UEFA in an attempt to block any sanctions.

Things getting real.
 
I agree with most of that @jsp but you need to add, all UEFA and the prem care about is money too.

UEFA could do way more for grass roots, clubs are going bust, they do practically nothing to fight racism. To say this new league is about money, and the old league isn't is a bit of a joke.

And to go on about the ex players moaning, who got very rich on the premier league, holding clubs to ranson on wages. Gary Neville, the man who earnt enough money to buy a football club, then buy their way out of leagues and then moan about it being about money. Maybe he's worried about his investment.

They wan't the prem to go on, but they want to replace the CL, I don't see a problem in theory, but as I said, it needs relegation and promotion. Maybe there will end up being two leagues and get rid of all the UEFA comps. It needs work and thought. If more money gets to grass roots, etc. then why not.

I'm also amazed are people are only just realising that football clubs care about money more than fans. I realised that when I could no longer watch the FA cup and European football on TV without paying a bomb. Then I pay a bomb and get bombarded with adverts every 3 minutes.

As for the German Clubs, if they weren't owned by the fans they'd be in.
 
UEFA could do a lot more if the clubs didn't keep shaking them down for more money every time a new deal comes up. Every few years they seem to come back and ask for a bigger slice of the pie and UEFA has inevitable always backed down to them. On the racism thing they are pretty limited as to what they can do because it's a society issue to tackle not exclusively a football issue and a lot of their member nations don't really want to deal with that issue.

They said they want a bigger share of the TV money so they gave it to them, they wanted more clubs from the big leagues they got it, they said they wanted more games so they gave it to them, now they want guaranteed spots for "certain clubs" and the've finally grown a backbone and said no. I think the people who run UEFA care more about the game than the owners do they do have similar motives but UEFA execs don't stand to gain personally in the way the owners do from more money in the game. The new version of the CL with a 10 match group stage sounds dreadful as well but it certainly feels like the lesser of two evils.

Well the statement is pretty clear it'll be 15 founder clubs (my guess is the two German heavyweights and PSG will be announced soon) plus 5 guest teams every season to create a 20 team competition. The 15 founder members are guaranteed for life which is just wrong but this is what they want it'll never change. Don't rule out those guest sides coming from outside of Europe.

To be fair to Neville he openly admitted he's made lots of money from football and invested some of that money back into the game with Salford but it doesn't make what he's saying wrong it is still right to call this out for what it is. Every club deserves the chance to fight their way to the top of the game that is how competition works this is not competition.
 
clubs can still fight to the top, the leagues will still exist.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I like the idea, I'm just saying football has been about money for years. Haalands agent wants him to be the first million pound a week player, this money has to come from somehwere. Why should UEFA earn so much money from the clubs when they do little, it's a bit like Spotify rinsing the song writers, of course not to the same degree.

And I'm not having that racism comment. Clubs should be banned if they continue to have fans doing monkey chants etc. If it's problem in their society then they need to do something about it, like the UK leagues have tried to do. I don't think oh, that's just the way they are, like some dodgy uncle is an excuse.

But back on this, if the clubs think they can do a competition, away from UEFA, they should be allowed to, why do UEFA get a say. If they can get the prem to change their rules, lets be honest by giving them loads of money, then why not. Which is what the prem did to the league when they started lets not forget.

Forget the proposed competition for a moment, and how awful it sounds, these clubs should be allowed to do what they want, without UEFA stopping it. If they want to start a new competion then who are UEFA to stop them. It's all about money. On both sides.
 
Why should the clubs keep all the money and not pass some of it down the pyramid?

UEFA certainly has got tougher on racism recently but they are pretty powerless to stop it they've just banned a player for 10 games they are far from perfect and it feels like to little to late but I do think it is someting they've always wanted to get tougher on.

The PL should kick them out as they've killed the competition apart from the title and relegation what is everyone playing for? The European spots make the rest of the table interesting. Will the top clubs even play first teams in the domestic league or will they just play reserve/youth teams to keep players fit for the Super League.

There's an element of respecting tradition to me they've sold out the fans who go to games as most of the PL games will become meaningless if we carry on playing it.
 
I understood their statement said more money would be going down to grass roots.

I did say forget the competition for a moment, as I hate it too, my issue is, if they want to do it, and can get the leagues on board, then so what, UEFA have no right to have a monopoly. The prem league bought their way to a new league too.

The actual competion as mooted is awful, and definitley needs work, needs relegation and promotion. Maybe a second league gets started and thats where you qualify from your own leagues, who knows, this will be part of the negotiation with the leagues. But if this does go ahead, I hope it's not in the format released. But I have no issue with the clubs trying bypass UEFA if it suits them. Football is a business after all. Whether we like it or not.
 
Well UEFA have the monopoly because that is the way the game has been structured for a very long time the big clubs don't like the fact that they have to keep giving money to the small guys. Have these guys not already made enough money? All these private owners are all billionaires.

I'm not buying their grass roots argument one bit either are they really going to give any money towards grass roots in say Denmark who will never have a team in the super league? I'm not saying they do but UEFA are there to make sure every country has a say and to try and make sure the money is distributed more evenly. These owners only care about profits and they'll be fleecing fans big time for this new competition ticket prices will be off the scale and god knows what they'll expect fans to pay to watch on TV.

We've said for years the european super league was inevitable now it's hear I think football needs to just tell them all to do one and try to start again without them. West Ham knocked down their stadium to try and compete, Everton just about to start building a new £500m stadium,
 
not going to happen, all the TV money these leagues bring in is because of these clubs, China, are they going to buy TV rights for Barnsley vs Watford or Man City vs Real Madrid?

The leagues need to get on board or they'll be left behind. The clubs hold all the cards. I imagine the format will change under negotiation, they'll have it all set out how they want it to play already. I imagine they know they can't be thrown out either, or they wouldn't have done it.

UEFA will cave in, give them what they want. and normality will resume. Everyone but the fans will be a winner.
 
I think we're past that point now this is beyond a bluff there will be consequences to the clubs if they withdraw from this super league now.

The Champions League is dead the only thing left to resolve is will the clubs be allowed to carry on competing domestically I think they will but the longer term outcome will be to devalue the domestic leagues and drive the money into the super league. The Premier League will become the Caraboa cup a sort of talent development league for the top clubs.

FIFA will back down they can't afford to have a World Cup without the top players and if this league takes off all the top players will become part of it as players always have and always will follow the money. The Brazilians aren't coming to Europe for the culture/weather they come because the wages are 10 times what they are at home.

The only thing that stops it now is if the players come out and go against it which will be a very bold stance to take given the potential riches on offer.

Ander Herrera is the first to put his head above the parapet and say he's against the plans fair play to him on that lets hope more speak out on this.
 
I honestly don’t think it’ll happen. There will be so much opposition that it’ll eventually be shelved. If the owners of these clubs have any sort of morals then they would engage with the people within the club, the fans etc to see whether it’s something that would be accepted. The answer would be a resounding no and obviously the owners only care about money, they don’t care about the fans and they don’t care about tradition.

Hope all clubs get a massive points deduction for even signing a letter of intent. Let the big clubs slide down the league table and that’s including us.

Like I said I don’t think it’ll happen, even if it was approved then I doubt it would happen overnight anyway, maybe in 2-3 years. But now there will be so much opposition, it’ll be tangled up for years.
 
Sounds like the German and French clubs were invited to come but rejected the chance and are sticking with UEFA as are Porto who have said they have no intention of joining the breakaway tournament.

Talk is each club will pocked £350m as a signing bonus to the competition and Utd's share price shot up 6.5% since the news broke.

The owners of these clubs have never cared about the fans we are their customers we've seen that with the Glazers since day one.

Where I just can't get my head around it is how have Barca/Madrid got this past their members for approval my guess is they haven't and the presidents of these clubs will now need to convince the members that breaking away is the right thing to do as these clubs are not for profit they are essentially charities.
 
They said on the radio this morning, if the German clubs werent owned 51% by the fans, they'd be in. They expect Munich, Dortmund and PSG to join eventually, whats the point in winning the CL when all the biggest clubs have left.
 
I don't feel so on my own, some football expert on the radio had similar thoughts, the idea stinks, but why shouldn't they fight UEFA to get what they want. UEFA take a bomb from them for admin. And they should just stick to the interantional football.
 
Guess they feel with the other big names gone they can totally control it now and go toe to toe with the new tournament if they can convince the "guest teams" to stick with UEFA's tournament where does the super league go to fill it's extra spots? It will basically become a battle over many years until one side runs out of money and has to admit defeat.

Does feel like for the super league to work it needs all the big names and them joining feels a touch inevitable but I think the members will be firmly against it.

The president of UEFA has gone to town on the clubs especially Woodward and Agnelli basically calling them the worst kind of human beings suggesting they've lied to UEFA all the way through this negotiation process suggesting these clubs never had any intention of agreeing a new deal.
 
haha, the irony of all this is not lost me, UEFA, someone lied to us blah blah. FIFA, where is the next world cup mate? that was done for the fans was it hahaha

You reap what you sow. No matter how big these institutions think they are, these clubs leave and they're nothing. That's why they are so upset
 
I doubt any club owners really care where the world cup is just look at who they get their sponsorship deals with they don't care where the money comes from and FIFA had become a laughing stock under Blatter something they're still coming out the other side of.

The fact Fergie quickly came out and said in public he thinks this is a terrible idea that he had no part of as a director at Utd tells you everything you need to know.

UEFA always had a tough job yes they need to keep the big clubs happy but they also need to make sure they look after the little guy as well as it's 1 nation 1 vote in UEFA. Really UEFA's mistake was probably not calling the big clubs bluff years ago and saying no back in the 90's when they kept pushing for more and more changes to the CL. Once the billionaires got their hands on clubs it was only a matter of time before they shafted UEFA.
 
I don't think anyone would hold UEFA or FIFA up as moral bastions of the game, or say that complete reform isn't necessary, but this isn't about reform or the good of the game. It's 100% about the money.

From the Guardian:
In the meantime, it is worth noting why Europe’s biggest clubs have decided to go now. Barcelona are £1bn in debt and facing one of the biggest financial crises in their history. Real Madrid were unable to afford a single big signing last summer. Juventus
have to find around £100m by the end of June. Internazionale’s owners sought emergency funding in February.

We are in debt the Glazers will never pay off, Spurs and Arsenal have new stadium to pay for and Liverpool are broke. Yes UEFA/FIFA are all about the money too, if they weren't, the World Cup wouldn't be where it is, and Jack Warner wouldn't have been the recipient of so many brown envelopes. We'd also all agree that the game has already been taken from the people and is a mere shadow of the 'working class game' it once was.

Having said all that, enough has to be enough at some point. As much as change is necessary, this isn't how you create change. This is about milking the game for every penny it's worth, and to hell with the consequences, because the consequences will be felt by the rest of the football pyramid, not them. In the US sport model, each club is a franchise which operates in it's own self interest. Owners negotiate salary caps and then GMs try and work around them to better their own team. There is no collective responsibility like exists in football. Money doesn't filter down to lower leagues through transfer fees and such like. They only have to serve their own interests.

From a competitive standpoint, each majoy US sport has plenty of teams who have no interest in winning so long as the money keeps flowing in. While the NFL is appointment viewing every week, there are 80 some odd NHL and NBA games, and 162 MLB games, most of which are completely meaningless, so they create gimicks and false rivalries to try and get viewers. Derby matches are so special because they happen twice a season. If we played Liverpool 6-8 times every season, it would lose the sense of occasion. Same with big European nights. they're big because they don't happen all the time. Every mid-week, and Inter at home might as well be Villa or Wolves. If there's no relegation/promotion and league position doesn't impact the following season, then who really cares?

The ones who have a responsibility here is the FA and the government, both of which made their beds when they allowed the Glazers to take us over and weren't willing to protect the game from sketchy ownership. Yes, I know that ship has sailed, but enough has to be enough at some point, and it's better late than never. They've failed as stewards of the game, and it's time they acted in the interests of the supporters, because if they don't these owners certainly won't.
 
Good post, I agree with all of that.

But, FIFA and UEFA have themselves to blame.

The leagues cannot afford to let these big teams go, what is the Premier league TV deal going to be like without those teams. They know they have a strong hand.

So if the leagues get on board, it's then just a battle with the mid week European competition, they start off with this ridiculous idea, talks go on, they end up with something that looks like the CL, but with UEFA bypassed is probably what will happen.

Either that, or the leagues risk it, go on their own without these teams and football dies.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Champions League revamp agreed

The revamped 36-team Champions League is agreed with the new format due to start in 2024.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

UEFA have announced their new format to kick in from 2024.

36 teams enter the group stage each team plays 10 games against teams of varying strength you all go into a league table top 8 go through to the next round the next 16 teams have a 2 leg play off to join the other 8 in the round of 16.

The two highest ranked coefficient teams that don't qualify through league position will also be added to the competition.
 
thats what it's all about

Manchester United shares have risen strongly within minutes of the opening bell on the New York Stock Exchange, where they are traded.

Fifteen minutes after the trading day began they were up around 8.5% in a sign that investors believe that the plans for a lucrative European Super League will get off the ground.

I think Juve's went up too
 
Thing is with the 6 biggest teams playing in a seperate more lucrative european tournament the value of the PL package is already de-valued as while these teams can compete for the title and still be relegated the moment they are out of a title race they can sort of just give up as there's nothing to play for. The TV market has already become more competitive with a lot of leagues finding it hard to sell their TV rights at the prices they had previously thought they could get.

Much like the PL has done this new ESL format will suck in all the cash and give the teams in it an even greater domestic advantage but your domestic season could becomes almost pointless very quickly as any position other than 1st doesn't actually mean anything to these clubs.

So many of the league game towards the end of the season will become totally meaningless and they'll become meaningless quicker than they currently do.

The super league also sounds terrible it needs a much better name.
 
this format definitely wont work, there needs to be relegation and promotion, that's why I think it will end up with two leagues and no UEFA cup.

You need the domestic league to have competition for it to work, as well as competition in the super league. If they actually want it to go ahead in the format released, then yes, football is dead as a competitive sport. They must know there needs to be competition for fans and TV companies to get involved, otherwise it's series of exhibition games.
 
Mr C said:
Good post, I agree with all of that.

But, FIFA and UEFA have themselves to blame.

The leagues cannot afford to let these big teams go, what is the Premier league TV deal going to be like without those teams. They know they have a strong hand.

So if the leagues get on board, it's then just a battle with the mid week European competition, they start off with this ridiculous idea, talks go on, they end up with something that looks like the CL, but with UEFA bypassed is probably what will happen.

Either that, or the leagues risk it, go on their own without these teams and football dies.
Click to expand...
That's the problem. the stewards of the game have allowed football to get so far down this rabbit hole that the Glazers have effectively executed a hostile takeover of one of the biggest clubs in the world, gotten that club to pay the purchase cost, and are in the process of taking over control of European football.

It's one massive game of chicken at this point, because the Premier League can't allow the top 6 clubs to leave otherwise their TV deal becomes worthless. On the other hand, if they allow this Super League to happen and placate the top 6, the Premier League becomes the League Cup where the top sides rest their key players and play weakened sides, and their TV deal becomes worthless. They have no choice but to take a hard line and ban clubs from any FIFA/UEFA sanctioned competitions including domestic and international football and hope that keeps the top clubs/players in line.
 
jsp said:
Thing is with the 6 biggest teams playing in a seperate more lucrative european tournament the value of the PL package is already de-valued as while these teams can compete for the title and still be relegated the moment they are out of a title race they can sort of just give up as there's nothing to play for. The TV market has already become more competitive with a lot of leagues finding it hard to sell their TV rights at the prices they had previously thought they could get.

Much like the PL has done this new ESL format will suck in all the cash and give the teams in it an even greater domestic advantage but your domestic season could becomes almost pointless very quickly as any position other than 1st doesn't actually mean anything to these clubs.

So many of the league game towards the end of the season will become totally meaningless and they'll become meaningless quicker than they currently do.

The super league also sounds terrible it needs a much better name.
Click to expand...
If that happens, you're going to see a playoff format put in to create some intrigue.
 
This is never going to happen, you lot should stop bumpin yer gums about nothing. It's brinkmanship, nothing more?
 
Also, I shall tell you this now. If this happens I will stop supporting United and will likely start supporting a lower league club.
 
Shot said:
This is never going to happen, you lot should stop bumpin yer gums about nothing. It's brinkmanship, nothing more?
Click to expand...

I don’t think it is they’ve signed up for it rejected the uefa proposal and gone it alone for 3 times the money on offer from uefa.

The fans of these 6 clubs actually need to come together now and make it clear to owners that we do not want this.
 
A deal will have to be made with UEFA how can they lose the clubs that’s been mentioned ? They simply can’t someone will have to give a little.
 
I see the government is getting involved. That will put a stop to this nonsense, there are competition and monopoly acts that can probably put a stop to this. that's what some are forgetting these clubs are acting as businesses and are looking to stifle competition and create monopoly.

Now, @IDFD wont be able to resist sticking his oar in to this, will he :)
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Back
Top