Erik ten Hag named new United manager

A new striker was necessary when Ronaldo came so it wasn't just a marketing decision. The chance came to get a top striker for a relatively low transfer fee but with high wages and they took it. The City link maybe forced their hand a little had Ronaldo been off anywhere else they might have just let that happen but once they realised he was interested in coming back I think everyone got very giddy and excited and approved the plan.

To me Donny was signed as a squad player and that's how he was used by Ole. He realised quite early on that he wasn't good enough to start so he didn't start him and every manager since has agreed with him on that. Donny's big reason for not playing was that when he did get on the pitch he contributed very little he didn't give the manager a reason to pick him.

Players in my opinion currently playing well at Utd based on their ability. Onana, Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Mainoo, Garnacho, McTominay, Hojlund.
 
jsp said:
The rest of the squad are actually playing pretty well this season.
Click to expand...
But that depends on what you define as pretty well and against what expectations? If you compare against mid table to Europa league teams then yeah they are playing pretty well. If you are comparing against top 4 then they aren’t. And part of the problem is they are paid like top 4 players with more expected.
 
RichH2016 said:
But that depends on what you define as pretty well and against what expectations? If you compare against mid table to Europa league teams then yeah they are playing pretty well. If you are comparing against top 4 then they aren’t. And part of the problem is they are paid like top 4 players with more expected.
Click to expand...

I judge it by what I've seen from these players before. What does their best run of form look like and how close are they playing to that benchmark.

Pointless judging them against the best players in the world when very few have ever shown an ability to be at that level before.

Individually most players I think are playing at a level that matches their ability, I have quite low expectations for a lot of them because they've consistently shown they aren't world class footballers. World Class to me is consistently high levels of performance many players in this squad show you flashes of brilliance but they are not consistent.

Yes they are performing well below their wages but then question is then should these players ever have been given these high wages in the first place?
 
RichH2016 said:
But that depends on what you define as pretty well and against what expectations? If you compare against mid table to Europa league teams then yeah they are playing pretty well. If you are comparing against top 4 then they aren’t. And part of the problem is they are paid like top 4 players with more expected.
Click to expand...
I think JSP is happy with our performances against the top 4.

Don't know what league he expects to win like that though.
 
Jayc1860 said:
I think JSP is happy with our performances against the top 4.

Don't know what league he expects to win like that though.
Click to expand...

This season in terms of results it's not that bad we've got two left to play at home. from 6 games we've got 2 wins, 1 draw and 3 defeats.

Obviously it isn't where we want to be but in the context of each game I think we've done ok this season.

It's the defeats to teams like Brighton/Bournemouth/West Ham/Fulham/Forest/Palace that concern me a lot more. In all those games we just didn't turn up and while injuries are a factor I expect us to at least play badly and take a point from these sort of matches.
 
Why do the smaller teams concern you more than the bigger teams? If you can't beat the top teams you can't win anything, ever... maybe in some freak year it would be possible, but mostly, never.

All the teams worry me - we haven't turned up against any team this season for 90 mins.
 
Because against top teams wins can come down to fine margins.

Mid table teams coming to old Trafford having 20+ shots and taking points is way more worrying as that shouldn’t be happening.

Beating the top sides means nothing if you don’t take enough points vs the middle and bottom sides.

Liverpool are top they’ve drawn with City and Utd, lost and drawn to Arsenal, lost to Spurs and beaten Villa. 18 points available they’ve taken 6.

In the 21 games against the other 14 sides they’ve won 18 and drawn 3 that’s how you win titles you beat the middle/bottom sides home and away.
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
jsp said:
Because against top teams wins can come down to fine margins.

Mid table teams coming to old Trafford having 20+ shots and taking points is way more worrying as that shouldn’t be happening.

Beating the top sides means nothing if you don’t take enough points vs the middle and bottom sides.

Liverpool are top they’ve drawn with City and Utd, lost and drawn to Arsenal, lost to Spurs and beaten Villa. 18 points available they’ve taken 6.

In the 21 games against the other 14 sides they’ve won 18 and drawn 3 that’s how you win titles you beat the middle/bottom sides home and away.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. In a close year where all the title challenging teams are doing the same thing [beating all the mid-table teams etc] the games against the top sides are extremely pivotal.

What about City vs Arsenal coming up? Doesn't matter to you? Just beat the other sides?

Don't think so.
Sideshow Bob said:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Click to expand...


Not really surprising is it - like I said somewhere else, training must be a battle for them.

Ironically all the ETH fan boys complaining about injuries just got served.
 
Jayc1860 said:
I don't agree. In a close year where all the title challenging teams are doing the same thing [beating all the mid-table teams etc] the games against the top sides are extremely pivotal.

What about City vs Arsenal coming up? Doesn't matter to you? Just beat the other sides?

Don't think so.

Not really surprising is it - like I said somewhere else, training must be a battle for them.

Ironically all the ETH fan boys complaining about injuries just got served.
Click to expand...

The point is you don’t need to be great against the top sides if you are near faultless against the rest. you could win all the games against your direct rivals but if you aren’t putting the weaker sides away regularly you won’t be at the top. Each game is only worth 3 points.

2008-09 we won the league was more of a top 4 back then. Lost home and away to Liverpool, Arsenal lost away and drew at home, Chelsea won at home draw away. 5 points from 18 still won the league.

It is a big game but it’s really a game that neither team can afford to lose not necessarily one they have to win. Either team loses that then wins 10 in a row would likely win the league.

These players who want to cry off to the papers need booting out anyway. Train hard play hard. Do you think training isn’t intense every day at City, Liverpool or Arsenal. Top players embrace it rather than cry about it.

I feel like I’m making the case for the defence with ETH and that he should 100% stay I’m not totally convinced by him either think I said about it’s probably 50/50 if he’s here next season but I don’t agree it’s any worse than it was when he started.
 
I said their will be a freak year here and there where you'll get away with not having to beat the top teams and win a league via the route mentioned. However it's never likely - you're always going to want to beat them as you know they'll be up there at the end of the season. The games which remain between Arsenal, City and Liverpool are going to decide this title. The proof is staring you right in the face.

As for the other stuff...

I've lost count of the amount of pundits who don't have a clue what ETH's team is supposed to be doing. I'd say that alone makes it worse. No clear direction all season, training his own players into the ground then making excuses about a weak squad? Really. Isn't this just self destruction? Even if you have a few injuries piling up doesn't it make sense to tone it down a bit incase of more problems? Don't think he's even considered that. It's just all the little bits and bobs he misses, and well the majority of our fans have had enough at this point. I'd say a 50% chance of staying is being very kind.
 
How many of those pundits watch Utd for 90 minutes every week?

I don’t think we’ve seen the true ETH team yet. Think our best XI has played one game together this season.

I could certainly see some consistency in the way we played through December, January and February. It wasn’t necessarily amazing but you could see a front 4 starting to emerge and learning to play off each other then injury to Hojlund and that’s out the window.

The medical department certainly needs looking at. Martinez injury was not properly repaired on the first surgery they failed to spot the fracture hadn’t heeled with the initial surgery. Malacia and Mount both suffered setbacks after returns to light training. Shaw was clearly willing to take gambles for the team when he wasn’t fully fit and paid the price. This could all be bad luck but I’m sure Brailsford will be looking at that department to see are we making mistakes that can be avoided.

We have no idea how close to the limit players are being pushed in training. They moan when it isn’t hard enough then moan when it is to hard. I expect those moaning to the press are the ones who aren’t currently getting much of a look in.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Ironically all the ETH fan boys complaining about injuries just got served.
Click to expand...
No one got served. Firstly it’s the daily mail. Secondly what happened to supporting the team and not just being here to criticise?

The only serving that is happening is poor fans making us run through poor cycles.

You’ll not back anyone long enough. You’d have had Fergie gone before he got successful.
 
@jsp Just watch us play. All your answers are there.

I don't think city and arsenal etc train their players hard at this time of year. I have no idea about united though, the injuries would suggest something isn't right.

Nagelsmann name is knocking about. But he won't be able to start until after the Euros which isn't ideal
 
IDFD said:
Firstly it’s the daily mail
Click to expand...
You believe these papers when they are filling their pages about Rashford.

I think it's clear myself that ETH will be gone. They can't afford a first season that will be anything like this dross. They have proven to be ruthless at Nice
 
I wonder, if ineos do sack him. Does that mean they are wrong, and are just as bad as the glazers?
Serious question, not flaming.
Most fans on here support keeping ETH, what would it mean to you if they did replace him?
 
jsp said:
How many of those pundits watch Utd for 90 minutes every week?

I don’t think we’ve seen the true ETH team yet. Think our best XI has played one game together this season.

I could certainly see some consistency in the way we played through December, January and February. It wasn’t necessarily amazing but you could see a front 4 starting to emerge and learning to play off each other then injury to Hojlund and that’s out the window.

The medical department certainly needs looking at. Martinez injury was not properly repaired on the first surgery they failed to spot the fracture hadn’t heeled with the initial surgery. Malacia and Mount both suffered setbacks after returns to light training. Shaw was clearly willing to take gambles for the team when he wasn’t fully fit and paid the price. This could all be bad luck but I’m sure Brailsford will be looking at that department to see are we making mistakes that can be avoided.

We have no idea how close to the limit players are being pushed in training. They moan when it isn’t hard enough then moan when it is to hard. I expect those moaning to the press are the ones who aren’t currently getting much of a look in.
Click to expand...

Well the majority of people surely can't be wrong, that's my point. They're watching the football as they're paid to. Too many people have noticed his failings, lack of character and dismal tactics. It's not just me saying all of this, it's all over Redcafe, news forums... it's really the general consensus now. I'm not saying anything that isn't alarmingly obvious. The excuses are falling on deaf ears at this point.

How long do we wait for the ETH team to arrive? At this rate we'll never see it due to injuries.
 
Mr C said:
@jsp Just watch us play. All your answers are there.

I don't think city and arsenal etc train their players hard at this time of year. I have no idea about united though, the injuries would suggest something isn't right.

Nagelsmann name is knocking about. But he won't be able to start until after the Euros which isn't ideal
Click to expand...

I do watch it when he had most of his team fit it was pretty good. Goals were starting to flow since Villa on Boxing Day 12 games 26 goals scored and in those games loads of good chances missed. Losing Hojlund was a major setback and without him in the last 3 games it’s been a struggle.

You don’t think but you also have no idea none of us do but looking at their mangers I can’t see them ever letting players coast through sessions. They just seem to have players that can handle that workload we don’t. They’ve got two games a week to deal with so I suspect training will be toned down as I’m sure it was last season with us in our run in. We are now 1 game a week so I expect the training needs to be more intense for us.

I doubt Nagelsmann will be giving them extra days off his teams are known for their hard running and yeah him not being available until after the euros I think rules him out for us. If we are making a change the new guy needs to be in the door planning his pre season sessions before the players report back.

One thing that will help the manager is getting the signings done sooner and not playing as many pre season games. Last summer was to many games and to much travelling.
 
Mr C said:
I wonder, if ineos do sack him. Does that mean they are wrong, and are just as bad as the glazers?
Serious question, not flaming.
Most fans on here support keeping ETH, what would it mean to you if they did replace him?
Click to expand...

I’d say it’s an even split on in or out at the moment on here. I’m just about clinging on for in but only just.

If they sack him fair enough the results have been poor this season, if they want to start off with a totally clean slate that is fine and completely understandable.

I don’t particularly have a strong bond to him if he goes to me it’s oh well on to the next one. A bit like Van Gaal I think he has laid a few decent foundations for the next guy to build on and they need to stick on that track and not do what the Glazers always did and bring in a new guy who had the complete opposite idea.
 
Mr C said:
I wonder, if ineos do sack him. Does that mean they are wrong, and are just as bad as the glazers?
Serious question, not flaming.
Most fans on here support keeping ETH, what would it mean to you if they did replace him?
Click to expand...
I’d say I was with jsp on this one, I am still on the let’s give him some more time but it is running a little thin. I totally get we have injuries and that but even with the full set of players, I do struggle to see a plan and a cohesive unit all over the pitch. That being said he did very well under tough circumstances last year and coming in after the Ole/Rangnick season, so I am inclined to give him more time because eventually you have to start building some continuity.

If he got sacked at the end of the season, then it would be disappointing that we’ve had to do it again but then at the same time you would hope with a new structure above, a new manager could eventually flourish.

Could ETH start to build something with a couple of new players? Quite possibly. However if Ineos decide he’s not the man for the job, then I will back any manager that comes in.
 
ETH always plays a certain style of football. From day One I have been saying to play his style of play he needs a player as AM who can keep possession. Bruno is a fantastic player but he cannot play that style. It is simple. Rasmus is his style of player as a CF. Amrabat is also his kind of DM but there is no way he can drop Bruno because Bruno is the one player who if dropped the pundits would never forgive him and would he would be sacked on the spot. He is in a no win situation now.
He tried a Diamond at OT and we lost but ETH got Eriksen to play the Left Midfield and he does not have the legs to do that and neither does Garnacho and Rashford track back and it was going to be disaster with that selection.
 
I don't think there's any pundits who'd get ETH sacked if he dropped Bruno.

People might question why he's made him captain if he isn't 100% happy with his performances but if he dropped him and it got better performances/results no one will question it.
 
No he cannot drop him and as you say the Captain. But at that time he was the only option as he plays every game. I am more worried about the way we play. Look at our two wide players. They always come inside and take shots. Which means the space the defenders have to defend is much smaller.
 
Tell you what he looks bloody good in that 3 piece suit.

One thing that is probably lost amongst the poor results this season is how on an individual level so many players have really improved under ETH and are playing their best football of their Utd careers so far under him. It hasn't worked for everyone but it seems that he's getting results out of some of the players he inherited.

The style of play is a problem we are far to open and we won't really push the top sides playing this way but that's probably the way this group of players need to play to get results and at this stage this is all that really matters.

I think his future is still up in the air and Sunday doesn't change that to much but the players do still seem to be with him and that's a good sign.
 
jsp said:
Tell you what he looks bloody good in that 3 piece suit.

One thing that is probably lost amongst the poor results this season is how on an individual level so many players have really improved under ETH and are playing their best football of their Utd careers so far under him. It hasn't worked for everyone but it seems that he's getting results out of some of the players he inherited.

The style of play is a problem we are far to open and we won't really push the top sides playing this way but that's probably the way this group of players need to play to get results and at this stage this is all that really matters.

I think his future is still up in the air and Sunday doesn't change that to much but the players do still seem to be with him and that's a good sign.
Click to expand...
What's different was the effort that everyone made. I mean everyone. I do not think you can fault anyone for the lack of effort. If they play like this in every game we can win every game. I saw a good analysis done on the first half when we pressed and the defence pushed up and they had no passing options. Then suddenly the defence dropped back and there was this gap in midfield.
I think when ETH went 1v1 then they had to go into places where they had not been before and had to get things out. Now hopefully they will accept that they can go toe to toe and yet still win against the top teams.
 
That's City and Liverpool now where we've comfortably been the better sides in the first-half ....
 
justintime said:
What's different was the effort that everyone made. I mean everyone. I do not think you can fault anyone for the lack of effort. If they play like this in every game we can win every game. I saw a good analysis done on the first half when we pressed and the defence pushed up and they had no passing options. Then suddenly the defence dropped back and there was this gap in midfield.
I think when ETH went 1v1 then they had to go into places where they had not been before and had to get things out. Now hopefully they will accept that they can go toe to toe and yet still win against the top teams.
Click to expand...

I think Hojlund sets that tone he leads from the front, hunting everything and the others follow. When he isn’t there the press just doesn’t happen but after a couple of weeks out maybe he wasn’t quite ready to really push himself to the limit. The difference he makes to this team is massive.

I do think fitness is an issue with this squad they can only sustain the press for the first 20 minutes then they almost drop into a rest mode after that and try to manage the game but that’s where I think we get sloppy and the mistakes creep in. They have to find a way of taking that press away and resting in possession, that’s what City are the absolute masters of.

I still don’t think they’ll be brave enough to play this way against City they’re still a little bit to good for us but I think in the big games this season this is how we’ve tried to play and to be fair in the big games I think we’ve done ok performance wise.
 
jsp said:
I think Hojlund sets that tone he leads from the front, hunting everything and the others follow. When he isn’t there the press just doesn’t happen but after a couple of weeks out maybe he wasn’t quite ready to really push himself to the limit. The difference he makes to this team is massive.

I do think fitness is an issue with this squad they can only sustain the press for the first 20 minutes then they almost drop into a rest mode after that and try to manage the game but that’s where I think we get sloppy and the mistakes creep in. They have to find a way of taking that press away and resting in possession, that’s what City are the absolute masters of.

I still don’t think they’ll be brave enough to play this way against City they’re still a little bit to good for us but I think in the big games this season this is how we’ve tried to play and to be fair in the big games I think we’ve done ok performance wise.
Click to expand...
No I do not believe that to be the case because it looks like we were on steroids in the extra time. I could not believe that it was Rashford who was sprinting non stop and shutting down the keeper etc. It was the defence that let us down by not pressing up the pitch. The forwards were still pressing.
 
justintime said:
No I do not believe that to be the case because it looks like we were on steroids in the extra time. I could not believe that it was Rashford who was sprinting non stop and shutting down the keeper etc. It was the defence that let us down by not pressing up the pitch. The forwards were still pressing.
Click to expand...

We have been playing 1 game a week pretty much since Christmas they've been playing two. I think in extra time it was us who had the physical edge on them.

I think sometimes with the crowd you can really push yourself in one off games but we've seen this pattern throughout the season. The team makes fantastic starts in games then totally drops off the intensity.

I mean did we even have a defence in extra time? Wasn't it Bruno on 1 leg and Maguire playing some sort of half centre back/half centre forward role.
 
jsp said:
We have been playing 1 game a week pretty much since Christmas they've been playing two. I think in extra time it was us who had the physical edge on them.

I think sometimes with the crowd you can really push yourself in one off games but we've seen this pattern throughout the season. The team makes fantastic starts in games then totally drops off the intensity.

I mean did we even have a defence in extra time? Wasn't it Bruno on 1 leg and Maguire playing some sort of half centre back/half centre forward role.
Click to expand...

That's twice you've mentioned that now, something you'd expect a Liverpool or rival fan on a wind-up to say, we won because our players just wanted it more.
 
Justin Cider said:
That's twice you've mentioned that now, something you'd expect a Liverpool or rival fan on a wind-up to say, we won because our players just wanted it more.
Click to expand...

Honestly give that nonsense a rest. You seem to enjoy accusing other people of being Liverpool fans it is rather boring and needless.

You can say we wanted it more. What does that even mean? Really the game came down to the bounce of a ball off a set piece luckily for us it bounced our way and we were able to break away and score the winner. On another day that ball falls more kindly to Elliot and the game probably ends up at penalties.
 
jsp said:
Honestly give that nonsense a rest. You seem to enjoy accusing other people of being Liverpool fans it is rather boring and needless.

You can say we wanted it more. What does that even mean? Really the game came down to the bounce of a ball off a set piece luckily for us it bounced our way and we were able to break away and score the winner. On another day that ball falls more kindly to Elliot and the game probably ends up at penalties.
Click to expand...

Calm yourself, it's just a weird thing for a United fan to say(twice) in the company of other United fans, that's all. It comes across as if you feel sorry for Liverpool ....

You're in Aldi, there are two women scrapping over the £4 Air Fryer in the middle isle, a third women comes from nowhere knocks the first two women out of the way and nabs herself the Air Fryer, that's wanting it more ....
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Back
Top