The decision to start McTominay in defence

Sideshow Bob

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#1
Why did Mourinho start McTominay as one of the three centre backs against West Ham? What does the decision say about Bailly?
 

jsp

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#2
I think only he know the answer. Why not use Herrera again he’s at least played that role before or Darmian don’t know where Jones is.

Anderson is their creative hub and most dangerous player why not put a good defender up against him?

Bailly seems to be well down the pecking order rumour is Mourinho lost faith in him when he called in sick before the West Brom game at home last season since then he’s been out of favour.
 

Red Warrior

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#3
Mctominay should be out on loan at a championship side to get playing time in his favoured position not playing out of position for Man Utd
 

jsp

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#4
Funnily enough Neville actually said last season that he sees McTominay as a potential centre back once he's developed a bit more as he didn't think he was good enough to play central midfield.

Bit like Walker at the world cup and Herrera vs Spurs we saw the downside of putting a midfield player in that position as they don't know the position and he was caught napping a bit on the first goal but after that he didn't really put a foot wrong.

The thing that made less sense was when the sub was finally made to change the system why did he take Lindelof off just put him in the two with Smalling? If you want to keep McTominay on then put him in midfield.

That selection felt like him saying once again that he's not happy with his CB options as far as I'm aware we had 4 fit centre backs for this weekend with Rojo injured, Jones probably not really available since he's come back but the manager has decided to play a back 3 and not play a guy the club spent £30m on.

He also had a little dig in the post game press conference praising the scout who found Diop for West Ham that to me was a direct dig at Utd's scouting department.
 

IDFD

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#5
I think that decision will ultimately be the final nail in his coffin.
 

jsp

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#7
Yeah, and why take Lindelof off and leave him on. Weird
That was a classic doubling down to justify the decision at 2-0 down I guess you are going for it so can see some sense but it probably cost us the 3rd goal as that gap between the central defenders was huge one of them went wide think it was Smalling as they had a player on the wing and the other didn't come across to close that gap. You'd have got a tank through the gap between them it was a very easy pass for Noble to make given he wasn't put under any pressure all afternoon.
 
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#8
It says Jose is a fool, a clown and he can't manage players. It says McTominay follows orders despite lacking talent and that to Jose that's all that really matters. It says that if you make a mistake you will be cast out. And if you aren't then why are you being treated differently to Bailly?
 

Itsallinthemind

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#9
He also had a little dig in the post game press conference praising the scout who found Diop for West Ham that to me was a direct dig at Utd's scouting department.

....and a classic example of looking for someone else , anything else , to blame other than himself.
 

IDFD

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#11
It says Jose is a fool, a clown and he can't manage players. It says McTominay follows orders despite lacking talent and that to Jose that's all that really matters. It says that if you make a mistake you will be cast out. And if you aren't then why are you being treated differently to Bailly?
It’s easily the worst decision I’ve seen Mourinho make as manager. The fact he didn’t change it after 20 minutes then reinforced it.

I’ve defended the guy but you can’t defend this decision today.
 

Mr C

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#12
I read a Ferdinand quote saying at one point we had a back 6. The decision to play Mctominay back there to me is a sign he is no longer thinking straight. Apparently he also said Mctominay is mentally strong unlike some of his team. He does seem to have completely lost it.
 
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#13
I don’t care if McTominay is mentally strong, you don’t win titles with mentality alone. It was a real bizarre decision. It screamed of clouded judgement, he didn’t really know what to do so he tried to be a little different.

The fact we started with two centre backs plus McTominay, Matic and Fellaini was so defensive. It wasn’t like we were playing City at the Etihad. This was West Ham!
 

IDFD

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#16
If you don’t know what to do with the side then revert to type. Play your formation you won everything with. Play the 4-2-3-1 and see what happens. Not a new formation new personnel a youngster out of position.
 

IDFD

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#17
Whose the on field leader in this side?

Keane Vidic Cantona Bruce Ince Rooney

We’re missing someone to just take charge and fire a rocket under someone. We’re too nice. McTominay probably took Noble shopping after and carried it home for him.
 
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#18
Whose the on field leader in this side?

Keane Vidic Cantona Bruce Ince Rooney

We’re missing someone to just take charge and fire a rocket under someone. We’re too nice.
Yeah and I think that’s a massive thing. We need someone in that dressing room whacking a rocket up of some these players backsides. But we simply don’t have those sort of characters, I think we are quite weak with leaders and seriously lack leadership.

My only thought was that Jose was filling his side with tall players to try and be physical and tough to beat but we lacked someone in the middle who could do something different. Not saying Pereira would have changed anything today but we lack someone of his ilk in there.
 

Mr C

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#19
It was woeful all round today, selection, set up, players attitude, substitutions. A complete mess.

Woodward needs to nail this next managerial appointment, we can’t be here again in 2 years time, it’s just not sustainable
 
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#20
Come on, Rich. We can discuss Mourinho without the need to resort to this kind of thing.
Resort to what? That the guy is a huge part of why this great club is such a joke right now? I never hated Moyes, in fact I pitied him. He was the wrong guy at the wrong time and he had some bad luck. I really disliked LVG because of the football. But Jose? I've always hated him and his antics.
 

JSNFRMN

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#21
Personally think he was trying to prove a point that he needed a CB in the summer. Thought a lot of today was Mourinho trying to prove a point. He's lost the plot, he knows he's going and is trying to save face now, this is what he does.
 
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#22
Personally think he was trying to prove a point that he needed a CB in the summer. Thought a lot of today was Mourinho trying to prove a point. He's lost the plot, he knows he's going and is trying to save face now, this is what he does.
It's such a ridiculous behaviour. I know he's not the only manager to do it but all it does is bring you closer to the chop.
 

JSNFRMN

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#23
And by "trying to save face" I mean he's looking to push the blame elsewhere. He's not entirely to blame but he's not blameless as he seems to be suggesting. He'll pull the wool over some eyes just as he did at Chelsea where he turned fans against the players but when he goes it'll reset, Chelsea fans loved and still love many of those players that went against him. Hopefully we can convince our best talents that there's something worth staying for.
 

boothstownred

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#24
I don't understand it. If he was trying to prove he needed a cb he needed his actual cbs to be making mistakes not playing a kid out of position. That makes him look bad not Woodward.
 
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#25
I don't understand it. If he was trying to prove he needed a cb he needed his actual cbs to be making mistakes not playing a kid out of position. That makes him look bad not Woodward.
Nothing that Jose is doing now makes any sense. And this is what we've seen from him at other clubs too.
 

JSNFRMN

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#26
I think he's worse here than anywhere else he's been. I don't remember so many formation changes and playing players out of position elsewhere. It's been 4231/433 with a much more settled side playing players in their natural position, he's fallen out with players for the same reasons but I don't think it's been this much of a tactical mess before and perhaps that's because those clubs were happy to buy players that were ready.
 

jsp

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#27
I think he's worse here than anywhere else he's been. I don't remember so many formation changes and playing players out of position elsewhere. It's been 4231/433 with a much more settled side playing players in their natural position, he's fallen out with players for the same reasons but I don't think it's been this much of a tactical mess before and perhaps that's because those clubs were happy to buy players that were ready.
I think he’s tried a bit of everything and nothing has worked he knew the players needed to change and the club wouldn’t do it this summer so I think he’s now in get myself sacked mode cash the cheque and move on.

He fuelled the negative feeling this summer with his persona on tour tried to pressure the club into buying players they didn’t and he’s now left with a squad who must think this guy doesn’t believe in me as he’s spent the whole summer trying to replace me.

A Mourinho side normally is rock solid defensively 2 seasons in I think the defence is arguably worse than it was in LVGs final season. The 3 guys who have come in have hardly made a difference although Dalot looks exciting but the other 2 have been disappointing if we are honest no better than what we already had.

If he planned on using a back 3 this season wanted a guy who could bring the ball out from defence why sell Blind? Surely he is that guy especially as he’d be able to play on the left side which is the side we favour attacking down?

I really can’t make sense of that system from yesterday especially with that midfield for 3-5-2 to work you have to press and force the opponent back you can’t stand off otherwise you end up 5-3-2 and the midfield is basically forced back into the defence.

That midfield 3 should never start together again you need either Herrera or Fred or Lingard in there to press the ball and get up against their midfield.
 

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#28
Thing is with Bailly and Lindelof, they weren't brought in to start just like Varane at Real Madrid, they were young players that needed developing. Problem is at Real Madrid, Varane had Ramos and Pepe ahead of him so he wasn't expected to start but he also had the experience of Carvalho to guide him when the 2 main men were rested. Bailly and Lindelof don't have that and have suffered as a consequence. I think there's good players in them both somewhere but they need guidance, Mourinho has frozen Bailly out apparently because he didn't like that Bailly phoned in sick on the eve of a game against West Brom.

All this is down to poor squad management, not by Mourinho but the club. It's so unbalanced in terms of the ages of players and how many players we have in certain positions and areas. We've got lots of numbers at the back but lacking in quality, senior players that are good but nothing more who probably need a quality partner to be better and then we've young players that could do with the same, at right back Young and Valencia both 33, Darmian at 28 is the right age profile of what should be our first choice right back but he's no good and we sold Rafael who at 28 would be first choice with experience of winning trophies. We're desperate for Dalot to be good enough but at 19 we shouldn't be expecting that. Left back, Shaw is seemingly coming good and I think can be more effective if we played on the front foot but he's 23 and this area was really neglected going back to Fergie's days. We had Evra and Buttner(!). And this is just the defence. A director of football is desperately needed now to stop these issues happening again.
 

jsp

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#29
You say that Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Darmian all defenders in their prime age. In midfield Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Lingard. Up front Lukaku and in goal De Gea.

Experienced players Young, Valencia, Matic, Sanchez, Mata these are all highly decorated experienced players.

Youngsters Shaw, Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot, Periera, Martial, Rashford all top young players.

There’s a nice balance age wise in that squad but to many players who probably see there futures elsewhere not here and those who are desperate to stay aren’t good enough as they know if/when they leave it’ll be to much smaller clubs.

Bailly and Lindelof were signed with development in mind but there’s no sign of improvement in either since they came arguably they’ve regressed what does that say about the coaching and environment. I think that is why Mourinho wanted an experienced CB in the summer who’s better than Smalling, Jones and Rojo. I think he sees Rojo as his leader at the back but he can never get him on the pitch so he plays Smalling who is no worse but reality is neither is good enough.
 

IDFD

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#30
We’ve become a burial ground for CB’s. Jones Smalling Evans Rojo and now Bailly Lindelof all CB’s with great potential that haven’t achieved it.
 

jsp

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#31
We’ve become a burial ground for CB’s. Jones Smalling Evans Rojo and now Bailly Lindelof all CB’s with great potential that haven’t achieved it.
Potential is impossible to measure as it’s all opinion based.

I’d say Smalling reached way above his potential he went from non league to Man Utd and he’s had an ok career, Evans I think fulfilled his both with us and West Brom but a lack of pace stopped him being elite, Rojo was never anything special he got signed because he had a good World Cup and because of who his agent is.

Jones was a promising talent but he got massively overhyped with those Edwards comparisons but his body couldn’t handle the pressure of being an elite athlete.

Still time for the other 2 but this regime don’t seem to be developing them in the way we’d hoped and it’s not just centre backs who aren’t improving at Utd.

Has any player signed in the last 5 years improved while they’ve been at Utd?
 

IDFD

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#32
I can’t think of one. Our signings are a complete failure.

Since Sir Alex:

Fellaini - £27m
Mata - £37m
Herrera - £32m
Luke Shaw - £27m
Marcos Rojo - £17m
Di Maria - £59m
Daley Blind - £17m
Victor Valdez - Free
Falcao - Loan
Memphis - £25m
Matteo Darmian - £13m
Schweinsteiger - £6m
Schneiderlin - £25m
Sergio Romero - Free
Anthony Martial - £35m
Eric Bailly - £30m
Ibrahimovic - Free
Mkhitaryan - £27m
Paul Pogba - £89m
Victor Lindelof - £30m
Romelu Lukaku - £75m
Nemanja Matic - £40m
Alexis Sanchez - Free
Fred - £50m
Lee Grant - Free
Diogo Dalot - £19m

Approx £680m spent there. Anyone on that list improved?
 

jsp

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#33
That my friend is the crux of the issue here we have created an environment where talented players are getting worse not better by being at the club.

I’d say Fellaini is a better player now than he was at Everton but the rest are a real horror show so many pointless signings Fellaini, Mata, Schweinsteiger, Rojo, Falcao all players who were not playing well enough to come here when they did.

Something is really really broken at this club very little of that money has come back in the same period and the club can’t keep spending the way it does with debts of £400m or whatever it is these days. We are paying above market wages to attract these players to its a recipe for disaster.
 

Itsallinthemind

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#34
Approx £680m spent there. Anyone on that list improved?
Ok IDFD , for once I do agree with you and many of these players can't be put down to Jose. Despite having given you a hard time recently I do think you make some good points outside of the Jose issue. I do wonder then what your thoughts are about how all this happened? It really beggars belief that United could end up where we are now.

When Liverpool lost Shankly and later Paisley they managed to keep the momentum going for a lot longer and didn't suddenly fall into disarray. Why can't we keep things going better? This club fell into the doldrums pretty much after Busby retired until Fergie came along 20 odd years later. Will we have to wait that long for another Scotsman to sort us out? Surely people knew that continuity after Fergie was going to be vital?
 

Red Warrior

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#35
I still find it so odd Fergie left in such a hurry as he did. Surely we needed a good season or 2 notice from him?

He walked the league in his final season with a squad that was poor and in need of rebuilding and pretty much left us in a mess.
 
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