Ivan Toney

Sideshow Bob

Sideshow Bob

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May 8, 2011
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I would like United to sign Toney in January. Do we think Brentford would sell/United spend big in January? What transfer fee would he likely command? Is he the answer?
 
I really like him but ball park price in January I'd say is about £60m.

He's worth a hell of a lot to Brentford he's probably the difference between them staying up and going down as without his goals they'd be in serious trouble.
 
Brentford would be mad to let him go mid season. United would have to go big to even tempt them.

Although I doubt United will spend big in January, the chronic issues with Martial might force a rethink.

He'd be a good choice, but I can't see it happening until the summer.
 
Brentford apparently are trying to open contract talks with him.

If Toney is smart he needs to make sure he's got a release clause in any deal he signs.

Zaha took the big money contract at Palace but it's kind of meant he's had to commit his career to them, similar situation to Kane when he wanted to leave Spurs and was priced out of a move.
 
Got to make this happen!

He gets better and better. I think he would round off our attack nicely. Plus he’s just pulled City’s pants down today!
 
It won't be in January, but definitely need to get him in the summer.
 
Someone will surely take him in the summer. I wonder if Newcastle might try to bring him back.

I expect in the summer Utd might look for someone with a higher profile like Osihmen but Toney to me ticks all the boxes but he’d need to go up a level in a Utd side in terms of goals.
 
My guess is he either admits he has a gambling problem or he’s been leaking team news to mates who’ve used that info to place bets.

Trippier got a 10 week ban for telling a friend about his impending transfer.

A lot will come down to how he defends his case and did any of the bets involve games he was playing in.
 
Ahhh, so that's why he wasn't picked for the World Cup squad when he was a shoo-in. Silly, silly boy
 
I'm assuming that it'll come out that he placed bets on football, or passed along insider knowledge to others who profited from it. Unless he was actively fixing matches or manipulating prop bets, I don't have a massive problem with it. The reaction to a player placing bets on his own team to win matches is disproportionate to real offences that actually harm people, like horror tackles or performance enhancing substances. It's all about protecting football's lucrative relationship with betting firms and less about the actual severity of the crime. Same reason why taking your shirt off is an automatic yellow card, to stop players from revealing messages that can impact sponsors.

Still a stupid thing for Toney to do, knowing the punishment.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
I'm assuming that it'll come out that he placed bets on football, or passed along insider knowledge to others who profited from it. Unless he was actively fixing matches or manipulating prop bets, I don't have a massive problem with it. The reaction to a player placing bets on his own team to win matches is disproportionate to real offences that actually harm people, like horror tackles or performance enhancing substances. It's all about protecting football's lucrative relationship with betting firms and less about the actual severity of the crime. Same reason why taking your shirt off is an automatic yellow card, to stop players from revealing messages that can impact sponsors.

Still a stupid thing for Toney to do, knowing the punishment.
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It is more complex than that as gambling laws require both sides in a bet to have access to the same information when placing a bet. If you have inside info you are putting the bookie at a disadvantage and therefore looking to deceive the bookmaker taking the bet.

Toney will be well aware of the rules, players are constantly reminded of them.

If it’s all true he’s made a massive mistake and it will cost him time on the pitch and maybe damage his reputation enough to turn big clubs and the England side off him.
 
As long as he's not betting on the Brentford games I don't see an issue.
 
I think betting on your own team should carry a harsher penalty but the rules are there for a reason and if he’s broken them he should pay the price.
 
jsp said:
It is more complex than that as gambling laws require both sides in a bet to have access to the same information when placing a bet. If you have inside info you are putting the bookie at a disadvantage and therefore looking to deceive the bookmaker taking the bet.

Toney will be well aware of the rules, players are constantly reminded of them.

If it’s all true he’s made a massive mistake and it will cost him time on the pitch and maybe damage his reputation enough to turn big clubs and the England side off him.
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The rules are there to protect the bookies and ensure their profitability. By extension, sports leagues profit from gambling through increased interest, tv ratings, sponsorships and where legal, partnerships with various casinos/sports books/websites etc and want to protect that relationship.

Toney was stupid and either has an addiction or exhibited a lack of judgement and is going to be punished accordingly. It wouldn't stop me from signing him (unless there is evidence of match fixing or an addiction that will lead to repeated suspensions) or tarnish his reputation in my eyes.

Hell, the greatest basketball player of all time gambled millions and millions, and you can't tell me he didn't bet on the one thing he knows better than anything else.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
The rules are there to protect the bookies and ensure their profitability. By extension, sports leagues profit from gambling through increased interest, tv ratings, sponsorships and where legal, partnerships with various casinos/sports books/websites etc and want to protect that relationship.

Toney was stupid and either has an addiction or exhibited a lack of judgement and is going to be punished accordingly. It wouldn't stop me from signing him (unless there is evidence of match fixing or an addiction that will lead to repeated suspensions) or tarnish his reputation in my eyes.

Hell, the greatest basketball player of all time gambled millions and millions, and you can't tell me he didn't bet on the one thing he knows better than anything else.
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I think they’re there to protect everyone involved punters shouldn’t be getting mislead by bookies who know things you don’t when you are placing a bet. I don’t think we are far away from bookmakers being banned from sponsoring premier league teams. There has already been a clamp down on TV advertising during the game and it will creep further and further. Betting has become far to easy and for those who can’t help themselves its almost impossible to avoid.

Given the scale of his betting 232 incidents over a 4 year period if he is found guilty he could be suspended for the rest of this season. If he has got a problem I hope he gets the help he needs but once you have that tag on you are clubs going to invest in you? I mean if he’s caught again the ban would be even longer.

Well he never got caught so we have to assume he didn’t. Could you even bet legally on sports back in the 90s in the USA?
 
FA have added a further 30 charges for breaking the rules around betting.
 
He’s definitely missed out on a big move at least in the near future with this hanging over his head.
 
Hard to see him avoiding a ban and quite a long one given the number of charges.
 
Not sure i've got the hang of this yet, but i'm gonna put £5 on Toney joining United in January, and £10 on that he doesn't.
 
He has reportedly admitted a string of gambling offences and is now facing a lengthy ban.
 
Trippier got a 10 week ban for a one off offence relating to tipping off his family/friends about a transfer that someone then placed a bet on whereas Joey Barton got an 18 month ban (reduced to 13 on appeal) for placing 1,300 bets over a 10 year period.

In total Toney has been charged with 262 breaches so based on the above cases you have to assume he could be facing something in the region of 6-12 months depending on the nature of the bets that were placed.

Football needs to take a serious look at its relationship with betting partners, it is impossible to ignore in the grounds and especially on TV. Gambling is rammed down our throats for 90 minutes of every game plus during the build up and after the games.
 
Agreed, the message needs to be greater than 'when the fun stops, stop'. If only it was that easy then people would stop drinking or smoking in the blink of an eye. Gambling related harm affects the individual and those around them.
 
I think it should be banned from sports personally.

it has its place but the way it’s almost been able to tie itself into being part of the game is worrying.
 
There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground with exposure to gambling sites/services. Right now it’s everywhere you look; on shirts, grounds, every other advert during matches, on the hoardings during the match. You literally can’t watch a match without seeing a betting company’s logo at some point. Football in general has become addicted to the ad revenue that betting companies bring and believe that bettors drive interest and eyeballs to their product. I don’t know how you limit that exposure without a complete ban like with tobacco companies.
 
Justin Cider said:
Paltry fine, it'll be less than a months wages to him.

Got off lightly.
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I assume Brentford will stop paying him as he’s unable to fulfil his obligations under his contract.

Also, probably cost him the chance of a big transfer this summer and maybe his international career.

He would be an option for Utd, Chelsea and Spurs (if Kane left) this summer and that move would come with the 5 year set for life deal. That window may now be missed.

The FA could do with banning betting companies from sponsoring clubs and advertising in grounds.
 
jsp said:
I assume Brentford will stop paying him as he’s unable to fulfil his obligations under his contract.

Also, probably cost him the chance of a big transfer this summer and maybe his international career.

He would be an option for Utd, Chelsea and Spurs (if Kane left) this summer and that move would come with the 5 year set for life deal. That window may now be missed.

The FA could do with banning betting companies from sponsoring clubs and advertising in grounds.
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Not sure Brentford would do that even if they were able, he's still a potential £60/70m asset and they need to keep him onside so i'd be very surprised if he doesn't stay on full wages.

Well he won't move in the Summer, but no doubt somebody will put a cheeky bid in to test the water, and Internationally he'll be fine, he got his debut after the story broke and it was obvious he faced a significant time out of the game.

He'll still get his big move, just maybe a year later than he and his agent planned.

I wouldn't bet on the FA doing that with the amount of money they make out of the advertising.
 
Justin Cider said:
Not sure Brentford would do that even if they were able, he's still a potential £60/70m asset and they need to keep him onside so i'd be very surprised if he doesn't stay on full wages.

Well he won't move in the Summer, but no doubt somebody will put a cheeky bid in to test the water, and Internationally he'll be fine, he got his debut after the story broke and it was obvious he faced a significant time out of the game.

He'll still get his big move, just maybe a year later than he and his agent planned.

I wouldn't bet on the FA doing that with the amount of money they make out of the advertising.
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Now would probably be a good time to offer him a new deal and try to get him to sign it. He's got a deal to 2025 do they back him and say we'll pay you and extend your current deal to 2027 with a pay rise as he's only on £20k a week. I use that "only" term loosely but lets be honest he would easily earn 5 times that on his next deal.

I imagine football contracts include clauses that allow clubs to withdraw pay when you are suspended under these circumstances as you literally can't do your job as you can't even report for training.

Can see clubs trying in the January window when the ban is up.

I guess his options will depend on how he comes back will he be straight back to himself or will it knock his momentum.
 
now would be a good time for a club like united to put a bid in
 

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