Casemiro | Match Discussion Thread 2023/24

justintime said:
It was a congested box and to me Cas was not at fault. Onana and AWB because it was a mess up between them and as you say the ball was cleared. If a keeper comes and cleans up an opposing player he is going to concede a penalty. Yes AWB does clear it as required. He did not even look at the ball when he punches the opposing player.
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Yeah, it's like I said, this stuff happens as games enter the last minutes. Things go from 1 to 100 quickly. He's got to do better in those situations.
 
If the box is congested all the more reason to head the ball away out of the box rather than head it towards your own goal.
 
jsp said:
If the box is congested all the more reason to head the ball away out of the box rather than head it towards your own goal.
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Sometimes you have no choice but to just head it whatever direction you can. we lose because none of our players can keep possession. Keeping possession and passing around the back is very different as you will agree.
 
justintime said:
Sometimes you have no choice but to just head it whatever direction you can. we lose because none of our players can keep possession. Keeping possession and passing around the back is very different as you will agree.
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This has nothing to do with playing from the game it’s about basics of defending crosses into your box. Casemiro is world class at this but for whatever reason on Saturday he had a complete brain fart and it ended up with us conceding a penalty.

It’s near the end of the game we are 1-0 up and we’ve just defended a cross, he had time to judge it. The ball is in the air as a defender all you have to do is head that ball as far out of our box as you can, if it goes to your guy great if it doesn’t you get ready to defend again. It just wasn’t the time to take that sort of gamble and head it back to the keeper.
 
Ultimately though it wasn't a huge problem until Onana's foul. It wasn't going to result in a goal, therefore the biggest error by far is his. Reports by various sources all conclude the same. Keeper error.
 
It was a terrible header by Case but Onana didn't have to clatter into their player like he did, another howler.
 
No one is saying Onana isn't at fault what he did was reckless but the "whole" situation could be avoided if Casemiro didn't do something so unbelievably stupid in his own box. Rather than just blame the person who made the final mistake you need to look at how we got to that point where the critical mistake was made.

Onana has panicked trying to fix Casemiro's mistake and got it very wrong.

That's all I'm try to say it doesn't absolve Onana of his responsibility. To me both Onana and Casemiro can share the blame equally on that penalty.
 
It's definitely not an equal sharing of blame. Never. The ball was cleared, not going to say it again.
 
Casemiro put Onana in a position where he had to make a decision. They are equally to blame. Is Onana to know the ball will be cleared by Wan Bissaka?
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Casemiro put Onana in a position where he had to make a decision. They are equally to blame. Is Onana to know the ball will be cleared by Wan Bissaka?
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Yes, it's called awareness and commanding your area. He has done the exact same thing before as I pointed out. I guess the build up play before hand or whatever happened is to blame there too? You could say this about any goal you wanted, and it would be just as daft. His decisions are poor sometimes. He had more time than he thought, a lot more. The ball was up in the air quite a while. It's something that could have been avoided by the keeper, no doubt in my mind.

Most of the papers and forums I've read don't even mention Casemiro. They all pin it on Onana, and rightly so. It's by far the most significant incident in the penalty being given.

I don't dispute the defending was frantic before he made the error, but that's just what happens sometimes in a congested penalty area. The unfortunate guy here is Casemiro who does end up getting a bad conatct with the ball, but it's not going to cause a goal against us.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Most of the papers and forums I've read don't even mention Casemiro. They all pin it on Onana, and rightly so. It's by far the most significant incident in the penalty being given.

I don't dispute the defending was frantic before he made the error, but that's just what happens sometimes in a congested penalty area. The unfortunate guy here is Casemiro who does end up getting a bad conatct with the ball, but it's not going to cause a goal against us.
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I wouldn't pay much attention to the papers, 'Onana howler' sells more papers than 'misplaced Casemiro header'.

Bad contact? C'mon, it was a deliberate attempt to head back to his own keeper. he tried to be too smart and messed up.
 
RVN said:
I wouldn't pay much attention to the papers, 'Onana howler' sells more papers than 'misplaced Casemiro header'.

Bad contact? C'mon, it was a deliberate attempt to head back to his own keeper. he tried to be too smart and messed up.
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I agreed that it was an error, of course it was. It's still not him that gave away the penatly though is it?

They can go with "Onana, howler" as the headline and then in the fine print explain what happened, it's the same difference. They chose not to bother because they understand the same as I do, and that is late frantic defending causes errors, people are tired etc.

As a keeper in a congested penalty area if you are not ready for the unexpected then you simply don't belong.
 
Jayc1860 said:
I agreed that it was an error, of course it was. It's still not him that gave away the penatly though is it?

They can go with "Onana, howler" as the headline and then in the fine print explain what happened, it's the same difference. They chose not to bother because they understand the same as I do, and that is late frantic defending causes errors, people are tired etc.

As a keeper in a congested penalty area if you are not ready for the unexpected then you simply don't belong.
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If Casemiro heads the ball away out of the area then there is zero chance of a penalty being conceded.
 
RVN said:
If Casemiro heads the ball away out of the area then there is zero chance of a penalty being conceded.
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It's fine mate, we see things differently on the incident, and I respect your opinion. So let's agree to disagree.
 
Some of the stuff he does belies his experience. So naive in his tackling and that’s probably down to him knowing he has no legs anymore and has to dive in.
 
Captain tonight.

At this rate we will be begging the Saudi’s to take him for free.
 
I rarely say this but I agree with Carragher he should have been taken off at halftime. He looks like he couldn’t care a less and he plays like it too.
 
He should have been removed from CB after the first, second definitely
 
He looks lost he’s not a centre back and he plays like a man who’s necked half a bottle of vodka to settle his nerves before kick off.

He is all over the place and cannot be asked to play at centre back again.

He hasn’t been much better in midfield either.
 
To be fair, he isn't a centre-back. I don't know what people wanted from him? Turn into prime Nesta?
 
Probably not go diving in on people 40 yards from goal or get tackled on your own goal line trying to nudge a ball out.

Yeah he's not a centre back but the mistakes he made yesterday just shouldn't be happening.

The systems a problem for him because it leaves you exposed and those Palace players were toying with him they looked like good players absolutely pulling down an old boys pants on a sunday morning.
 
Mr C said:
the system of going out there and doing whatever the F you want? :D
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Playing a man to man marking system with players who can't run is a big problem.

There's 3 players out there last night who've got to chance against anyone with speed get them isolated 1 vs 1 and it's game over.

The only way to play with these players is sit deep and play counter attack if we did that against the teams we've played recently the manager would be getting hammered for being negative. He's in a no win situation right now.

Fingers crossed one of the defenders is fit enough to play Arsenal so we can at least move Casemiro back into midfield.
 
jsp said:
Yeah he's not a centre back but the mistakes he made yesterday just shouldn't be happening.
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He was at fault for 3 of the goals I think. Not saying all 3 were solely his fault but he was part of the problem. The first he makes an appalling attempt to tackle Olise. The second he tries to win the ball on the halfway way out of position and gets nowhere near it and the third I mean that one is obvious what he does wrong.
 
RichH2016 said:
He was at fault for 3 of the goals I think. Not saying all 3 were solely his fault but he was part of the problem. The first he makes an appalling attempt to tackle Olise. The second he tries to win the ball on the halfway way out of position and gets nowhere near it and the third I mean that one is obvious what he does wrong.
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Add in the stupid header against Burnley.

They surely can't pick him at centre back again.

If you had someone with speed next to him it might help but his decision making at the back is dreadful.

He just looks totally gone for this level he can see the danger but he just can't get their quick enough.
 
Casemiro is having a terrible season, let's be clear.

However, none of this is his fault whilst playing at CB. He's doing the best he can for our team there, and he's getting crap for it. I don't get it.
 
he was absolute dog crap last night.

But he looked like a CM playing CB. Sometimes he was in his CM position.

Now I understand he should know better, but if I can see this, the manager should be able to.

He's having an awful season like most players.

I am going to write him off yet, players older than him function well enough, just need a manager to use him properly.

But of course, if we can sell and replace, yes please.
 
He's an absolute write off, not everyone lasts until they're 40.

Midfield is a young mans game these days it's a lot of hard running and you could see last season he'd lost a yard but he still had enough class to get away with it well this season he's lost another and that's to much.

Problem is every other club can see this unless Saudi see him as some sort of "icon" they can bring in we've got no chance of getting anything back on him.

I just hope that Casemiro isn't going to sit around and rinse us of the wages, hopefully he can see the writing on the wall and agrees its best for him to move on.
 
jsp said:
Midfield is a young mans game these days
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nonsense, depends on the set up, seen any of Madrid this season?

he's only 32 it's not like he's 36

anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm defending him. He's got to be sold if we can
 
Mr C said:
nonsense, depends on the set up, seen any of Madrid this season?

he's only 32 it's not like he's 36

anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm defending him. He's got to be sold if we can
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No I haven't but I assume you are referencing Kroos and Modric. Both are having their minutes managed though, average appearence length for Modric is 45 minutes and Kroos is 60 minutes neither are expected to get through 90 minutes these days. Spanish football is very different Madrid have a huge strength advantage over most opponents and the game is slower. The premier league really is all about speed you have to able to go quickly from one end to the other.

You can just tell when you watch a player when time has caught up to them for some it's in their late 30's for others it's early 30's. Remember Rooney? Some players it catches them early and it looks like Casemiro is one of them.

Same happened to Fabinho last season at Liverpool once the speed in your legs go it isn't coming back.
 

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