What needs to change?

Status
Not open for further replies.
So much there I don't agree with.

Rudiger links were never strong enough for me always felt like chat as he was trying to drive up
Ignoring the fact a lot of places saying we made an offer but he didn't want to stay in the prem.
I think the point is that Maguire and Bruno have been good for Utd up until this season
I'd argue Maguire hasn't been good, he's been ok
For me the issue with Maguire is the fact that he's just become the whipping boy for so many fans
Don't blame the fans, he's not a whipping boy, he's been utter garbage.
The centre backs will look better as soon as Utd start stopping teams coming straight through the centre of the pitch at them
I would bet Maguire will not be at united by the time TH contract is up. Lindelof might get a stay due to fact he can play. Both are not good enough defensively. You can't blame the midfield for how poor Maguire has been, they have exposed him for sure, and it has highlighted all his faults.

Really, Maguires performances this season are undefendable. And really when someone tries to I just think, what have you been watching. As I said, is he as bad as he's played this year, no. Do I see him as a united player challenging for the league and CL. Absolutely not. He is a weakness any decent team will target.
 
So much there I don't agree with.

Ignoring the fact a lot of places saying we made an offer but he didn't want to stay in the prem.

I'd argue Maguire hasn't been good, he's been ok

Don't blame the fans, he's not a whipping boy, he's been utter garbage.

I would bet Maguire will not be at united by the time TH contract is up. Lindelof might get a stay due to fact he can play. Both are not good enough defensively. You can't blame the midfield for how poor Maguire has been, they have exposed him for sure, and it has highlighted all his faults.

Really, Maguires performances this season are undefendable. And really when someone tries to I just think, what have you been watching. As I said, is he as bad as he's played this year, no. Do I see him as a united player challenging for the league and CL. Absolutely not. He is a weakness any decent team will target.

Come on transfer talk is chip paper everyone knows that Utd were being linked to Rudiger because he's out on contract and Utd+Player = clicks there was never any real substance to the links. I haven't seen one credible journalist come out and say Utd were really in for him. From day one that link made little to no sense it seemed pretty obvious for Rudiger it was Madrid or stay at Chelsea everything else was just noise.

Second point about Maguire that's down to interpretation but Utd were a much better side with him in it in his first two seasons and he's been one of the best centre backs at the last two international tournaments. When he got injured at the end of last season we were a mess he had a few bad games in those two season far from perfect but he was a good defender and consistently one of Utd's better players most weeks.

I do blame the fans Utd fans online are a disgrace easy slagging players off on a message board they don't come here but twitter/instagram etc it's horrible the crap that gets sent their way. He's had decent support in the ground off the match going fans but I do think Utd fans turned on him in a big way this season. There has been a huge pile on to Maguire this season fans of other clubs and these poxy banter accounts started taking digs are him and the Utd fans joined in and now one clown has called in a bomb threat to his house. Also, being booed at Wembley by England fans, how is that even possible for a guy who's played so well for them? It's because online he's become a joke figure which I think is really unfair.

You say Lindelof can play he's not better than Maguire on the ball. There's a reason Maguire has to play on the left side (his weaker side) it's because he's better on the ball than our other defenders even when playing on his weaker foot. To play from the back though you need passing options. To often Maguire is given the ball but he has no pass if we want to play a passing style every player receiving the ball should have at least 2 passing options. Utd have never mastered this.

I can blame whoever I want I watch the games and I watch other top sides play regularly it's a disgrace how easily teams can expose our centre backs because our midfield is wide open. Top sides have a system that protects the defenders. This season that bit of extra security that came from playing counter attacking football has gone. Week after week our midfield is wide open sort the midfield out and we'll do a lot less defending. The positional discipline from our two centre mids is poor, our full backs don't sprint back when the ball is turned over and our attack doesn't press when we lose the ball it's a piece of cake to rip through our team in less than 5 passes.

I'm not going to defend his performances this season he's been rotten but apart from De Gea, Ronaldo and Fred who in that squad can say they did their bit this season?

He will have to adapt to the new style but for me if I'm ETH as long as I think mentally he's still good enough to handle it he's one I look to build with rather than without. If it doesn't work you replace him but he's well down my list on problem positions. I think ETH has 3 centre backs who are all decent enough on the ball in Maguire, Lindelof and Varane fix the other bits and see if that solves the problems because the other bits are 100% broken.
 
Rudiger links were never strong enough for me always felt like chat as he was trying to drive up the Chelsea offer. Utd should be in contact with his team finding out what he's looking at but I never felt it was that serious a link always seemed Madrid were in the driving seat unless Chelsea made a him a great offer to stay. Would be an odd target given his best football has been played in a back 3 and the new boss doesn't play a back 3 that is why I always saw it as nonsense.

I think the point is that Maguire and Bruno have been good for Utd up until this season where for whatever reason the whole thing crashed so you probably do try to fit them in as long as they want to be at the club. See how they adapt if they can't adapt they'll have to be replaced.

For me you stick with the guys who were good prior to this season see if you can get them playing well again if you can't you then move them on.

Look if a top centre back is on the market and ETH says this is my guy and we can get him then go and get him.

For me the issue with Maguire is the fact that he's just become the whipping boy for so many fans and it's got way out of hand to the point where he was getting blamed for goals that have nothing to do with him. Other teams were pilling on him and rather than try and get around him and help we as fans dived on top with them.

He is slow but so were De Ligt and Blind ajax got to the CL semi final with them as centre backs if you protect a slow centre back it really isn't a problem.

The centre backs will look better as soon as Utd start stopping teams coming straight through the centre of the pitch at them.
More and more excuses. We should not protect him. We should ask yourself if he is fast enought and good enought on the ball. If the answer is no, we should sell. Maybe not this summer if we can't find a replacement but he should be on the list of unwanted players. We need 11 players that can assume there role. No one must be protected.
 
All the media saying we made a huge offer for Rudiger, only to be rejected by him, out of respect for Chelsea. He will take less at Madrid.
 
You can say the press is chip paper, until you use it to prove one of your own points.
 
More and more excuses. We should not protect him. We should ask yourself if he is fast enought and good enought on the ball. If the answer is no, we should sell. Maybe not this summer if we can't find a replacement but he should be on the list of unwanted players. We need 11 players that can assume there role. No one must be protected.

You have massively missed my point regarding protection a slower centre back is only a liability if you're going to push up high and then not press the ball as the opponent will have time to send accurate passes into space behind you which exposes your weakness. In your 4-3-3 this is normally done by 1 number 6 being very disciplined and never leaving the centre of the pitch patrolling in front of his two centre backs he almost never goes ahead of the ball.

This is where Utd are really bad far to often in games we have both central midfield players getting caught high up the pitch ahead of the ball meaning if the opponent gets the ball they can normally get straight up the middle of the pitch and on to our defence with relative ease. The number of times 1 pass takes out our entire midfield is quite honestly scandalous and I think this will be the key thing that ETH will look to stop and he'll do that by restrictive the movement of our centre mids.

ETH's system had two pretty slow centre backs in it when they reached the champions league semi final I can't tell you what the current two are like my guess is they'll probably be a bit quicker on the turn that Blind and De Ligt were.

However, to protect those slower centre back ETH deploys two number 6's and a number 10 who he expects to not only retain the ball but also to hold in their designated positions so when the ball is lost the team is still in a shape to defend if the ball can't be won back quickly.

Of course no players spot in the team is assured everyone is going to have to earn their spot under the new manager but I expect to see a much better coached team that stays compact and isn't so easy to play through.
 
Really, Maguires performances this season are undefendable. And really when someone tries to I just think, what have you been watching. As I said, is he as bad as he's played this year, no. Do I see him as a united player challenging for the league and CL. Absolutely not. He is a weakness any decent team will target.

I think the same when people say he wasn't good in his first 2 seasons here and that the defence doesn't look better with him in it.
 
You can say the press is chip paper, until you use it to prove one of your own points.

Let me know when I use the random football websites with no quotes to back up my point on something.

The Rudiger transfer stuff didn't make any sense from day one it stank of the usual clickbait stuff.

It's unlikely Utd made offers to any player until the new manager was appointed so if ETH signed off on an approach maybe we did but I haven't seen anything that makes me thing those rumours are true from anyone who I'd consider as being in the know at Utd.
 
How is it click bait? you need to to click a link re: Rudiger signing for Madrid to see it.

Look at our defence to see why we would be linked to a CB
 
You have massively missed my point regarding protection a slower centre back is only a liability if you're going to push up high and then not press the ball as the opponent will have time to send accurate passes into space behind you which exposes your weakness. In your 4-3-3 this is normally done by 1 number 6 being very disciplined and never leaving the centre of the pitch patrolling in front of his two centre backs he almost never goes ahead of the ball.

This is where Utd are really bad far to often in games we have both central midfield players getting caught high up the pitch ahead of the ball meaning if the opponent gets the ball they can normally get straight up the middle of the pitch and on to our defence with relative ease. The number of times 1 pass takes out our entire midfield is quite honestly scandalous and I think this will be the key thing that ETH will look to stop and he'll do that by restrictive the movement of our centre mids.

ETH's system had two pretty slow centre backs in it when they reached the champions league semi final I can't tell you what the current two are like my guess is they'll probably be a bit quicker on the turn that Blind and De Ligt were.

However, to protect those slower centre back ETH deploys two number 6's and a number 10 who he expects to not only retain the ball but also to hold in their designated positions so when the ball is lost the team is still in a shape to defend if the ball can't be won back quickly.

Of course no players spot in the team is assured everyone is going to have to earn their spot under the new manager but I expect to see a much better coached team that stays compact and isn't so easy to play through.
You finally agree that Bruno stupid press, disrupt the shape of the midfield and make us easy to run through ? Most of time, like you said, the midfield is outnumbered and the main culprit is Bruno running at defenders, leaving is position. As a 10 he should be blocking the CDM of the opposite team, but most of the time he is too high.
 
So I've just clicked on the Express they link it to Sport 1 an article you can't even reach anymore.

The mirror go as far as saying Utd expressed an interest yet the headline says Man Utd beaten

The MEN use tweets from random Utd nutters to suggest there's fan anger.

Each one of these sites is flooded with adverts Man Utd's name is used in the headline and the link despite being less than 1 line of the story.

The stuff is clickbait because there's absolutely nothing in any of those links suggesting that Utd were trying to sign Rudiger most just speculate that we might or even maybe should sign him.
 
You finally agree that Bruno stupid press, disrupt the shape of the midfield and make us easy to run through ? Most of time, like you said, the midfield is outnumbered and the main culprit is Bruno running at defenders, leaving is position. As a 10 he should be blocking the CDM of the opposite team, but most of the time he is too high.

Well Bruno plays ahead of the 2 centre mids so no it's not really down to him he's basically been used in a 4-4-1-1 system recently playing very close to Ronaldo. So the idea of the press is him and Ronaldo work together as a two to try and pressure the opponent defence. But this means we really aren't doing an effective press as a team as you need to work as a team together for it to work. Get is slightly wrong and you are in big trouble this is why Southampton get pumped regularly because when the pressing is done badly they are wide open and good teams fill their boots against them.

Where we've had lots of problems is Pogba/McTominay/Fred/Matic whichever combo of those two are playing as the two centre mid are also dragged high up the pitch and quite a few times both are caught ahead of the ball when it's lost. This means if a team breaks out through a dribble or a pass you can very quickly be facing up to our two centre backs in a 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 2 situation. This is a lot harder to do to top sides as very rarely will they commit that many players ahead of the ball we seem to do it a lot.

Bruno is in the team to impact the game going the other way yes he will benefit from being given a bit more restriction to stay more central but in this current team he's basically told he can go wherever he wants to create chances and that is what he does. No one in the league has created more than him this season.

I would expect the new coach will want him to be a lot more restricted in the way he plays as he does for Portugal and hope that a better organised system will not put so much pressure on Bruno to be our creative hub and also a 1 man pressing machine.

As I stress in most of these posts they have to be coached to play as a team not as individuals this is something that has been severely lacking at Utd for a long time.
 
Well Bruno plays ahead of the 2 centre mids so no it's not really down to him he's basically been used in a 4-4-1-1 system recently playing very close to Ronaldo. So the idea of the press is him and Ronaldo work together as a two to try and pressure the opponent defence. But this means we really aren't doing an effective press as a team as you need to work as a team together for it to work. Get is slightly wrong and you are in big trouble this is why Southampton get pumped regularly because when the pressing is done badly they are wide open and good teams fill their boots against them.

Where we've had lots of problems is Pogba/McTominay/Fred/Matic whichever combo of those two are playing as the two centre mid are also dragged high up the pitch and quite a few times both are caught ahead of the ball when it's lost. This means if a team breaks out through a dribble or a pass you can very quickly be facing up to our two centre backs in a 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 2 situation. This is a lot harder to do to top sides as very rarely will they commit that many players ahead of the ball we seem to do it a lot.

Bruno is in the team to impact the game going the other way yes he will benefit from being given a bit more restriction to stay more central but in this current team he's basically told he can go wherever he wants to create chances and that is what he does. No one in the league has created more than him this season.

I would expect the new coach will want him to be a lot more restricted in the way he plays as he does for Portugal and hope that a better organised system will not put so much pressure on Bruno to be our creative hub and also a 1 man pressing machine.

As I stress in most of these posts they have to be coached to play as a team not as individuals this is something that has been severely lacking at Utd for a long time.
I disagree strongly. Don't know where this 4411 come from, but Sancho, Rashford and Elanga are not LM or RM like Beckham, they are wingers that doesn't defend deep. Most of the time, they leave the fullback alone on counter attack and jog back slowly. What we most play is a 4231. Also, this formation suggest that you agree to face 3 opposite midfielders against 2 in the City and Liverpool match ! Are you setting them to fall ? No combo of 2 can win against the 3 of this 2 teams. That is the hard law SAF learned against Barça. That is ridiculous to think otherwise. The more you try to defend Bruno the more i feel his position is useless in modern football. I rather a box to box than a 10/false 9 any day of week. I hope we ditch this stupid philosophy soon.
 
I disagree strongly. Don't know where this 4411 come from, but Sancho, Rashford and Elanga are not LM or RM like Beckham, they are wingers that doesn't defend deep. Most of the time, they leave the fullback alone on counter attack and jog back slowly. What we most play is a 4231. Also, this formation suggest that you agree to face 3 opposite midfielders against 2 in the City and Liverpool match ! Are you setting them to fall ? No combo of 2 can win against the 3 of this 2 teams. That is the hard law SAF learned against Barça. That is ridiculous to think otherwise. The more you try to defend Bruno the more i feel his position is useless in modern football. I rather a box to box than a 10/false 9 any day of week. I hope we ditch this stupid philosophy soon.

Liverpool we started 3-4-2-1 from memory switched at half time to a back 4, City was 4-4-1-1 with Pogba off Bruno. There was no formation saving us vs Liverpool missing 5 or 6 first team players against the best side in Europe you are doomed from the start. Following the game plan might have done some good that first goal they scored may be the dumbest goal we’ve conceded all season.

At Arsenal to me it felt like Elanga and Sancho started a bit deeper they certainly weren’t staying up high to look for counter attacks Bruno was getting close to Ronaldo. All 3 of these games we setup defensively but conceded within 5 minutes so plans go out the window when you let in goals that early.

Well things may change with ETH although from what I’ve seen he seems to like the 4-2-3-1 system but like any system it’s not just how you setup it’s how you play within that system. Liverpool & City both play 4-3-3 but in very different ways. Liverpools number 8s aren’t as aggressive getting forward because their full backs are extremely attacking at City the full backs are a bit more reserved allowing the number 8s to go into the box. I do think that makes City a little more vulnerable defensively than Liverpool as they have a bit less security.

Well the position may not have much of a future but let’s wait and see what the new guy does and how Bruno adapts to the new setup before writing him off. I think better coaching and a more disciplined system will do him good hopefully reduce the number of high risk passes he feels like he needs to take.
 
Well the position may not have much of a future but let’s wait and see what the new guy does and how Bruno adapts to the new setup before writing him off. I think better coaching and a more disciplined system will do him good hopefully reduce the number of high risk passes he feels like he needs to take.
I agree Bruno deserves a chance under the new manager. His performances for United have absolutely earned him that. But at this point I would say it won't work out. To me I don't think Bruno can operate as a #10 in a modern system. He doesn't have the control to his game and he takes too many risks. And yes that's worked for him in terms of his goals and assists at United but for me I don't think that'll work under Ten Hag. But let's see because he deserves that chance.
 
I agree Bruno deserves a chance under the new manager. His performances for United have absolutely earned him that. But at this point I would say it won't work out. To me I don't think Bruno can operate as a #10 in a modern system. He doesn't have the control to his game and he takes too many risks. And yes that's worked for him in terms of his goals and assists at United but for me I don't think that'll work under Ten Hag. But let's see because he deserves that chance.

Don't think many true number 10's really exist in modern football the only top clubs I can think that use them are PSG with Messi and Bayern with Muller.

Muller is a funny one because he's similar in a way to Bruno where not a lot of what he's done in 90 minutes makes any sense but on a good day he comes off with a couple of goals or assists. It's one of those it shouldn't work but it does situations.

From the video's I watched about Ten Hag he does like a number 10 player but he will be expected to be more disciplined stay more central and take less risks with his passing which I think he'll be able to do.

It may mean he's slightly less productive you won't be getting 20 goals and 20 assists from him a season like he was before but if the team is more productive around him he doesn't need to contribute extreme numbers we hopefully will share it about a bit more.
 
Great news. Mourinho want Bailly, Dalot and Matic at AS Roma. That is 2 unwanted players sold before the opening of the summer window. Let get Gvardiol and Timber or Frimpong as replacement.
 
He'll struggle in Serie A yes it's not as physical at the premier league but it's not what it was 20 years ago the game is much more free flowing over there.

What he sees in Dalot I don't know can only be a favour to his agent if he takes him as that lad is rubbish.
 
Anyway, we should agree to sell them. Any money we get from them will add up to the budget of ETH for the rebuild.
 
Well Matic is on a free think Dalot has 1 year left on his contract and Bailly hardly plays so between the 3 of them we'll be lucky to get £20m but I'd take it get them out the door and move on.
 
Well Matic is on a free think Dalot has 1 year left on his contract and Bailly hardly plays so between the 3 of them we'll be lucky to get £20m but I'd take it get them out the door and move on.
I believe we will get a close to 30m£, we will see.
 
I believe we will get a close to 30m£, we will see.

Still a loss on the two though paid £50m for Bailly and Dalot.

If I was guessing my thoughts are we'd probably be able to sell Dalot for £5-10m (he is an international) and they'll probably be looking at taking Bailly on loan with an option to buy like they did with Smalling.

For me Dalot needs to go back to Portugal and learn the ropes in an easier league he's nowhere near ready for the big leagues just hasn't played enough football since coming to Utd. I get why Utd signed him highly rated kid but that deal should have seen him stay at Porto for another season on loan and actually play as he was never going to get the chances at Utd under Mourinho.
 
Still a loss on the two though paid £50m for Bailly and Dalot.

If I was guessing my thoughts are we'd probably be able to sell Dalot for £5-10m (he is an international) and they'll probably be looking at taking Bailly on loan with an option to buy like they did with Smalling.

For me Dalot needs to go back to Portugal and learn the ropes in an easier league he's nowhere near ready for the big leagues just hasn't played enough football since coming to Utd. I get why Utd signed him highly rated kid but that deal should have seen him stay at Porto for another season on loan and actually play as he was never going to get the chances at Utd under Mourinho.
No loan with option to buy. We ditch them. If Mourinho doesn't take them we will find others clubs, probably in Spain. I can see Villarreal retaking Bailly after selling Pau Torres.
 
No loan with option to buy. We ditch them. If Mourinho doesn't take them we will find others clubs, probably in Spain. I can see Villarreal retaking Bailly after selling Pau Torres.

Obviously if we can sell we sell but I don't see clubs offering a decent fee for Bailly he is injury prone and hasn't been playing regular football he's also on good wages so I expect a lot of try before you buy offers.

He is reported to be on £80k a week I would be guessing that would make him a top earner at the sort of clubs I'd expect to be coming in for him as the big boys won't be going for him. His deal runs until 2024 so still 2 years left on it which Utd have the option to extend by 1 year if they want to so really 3 year deal.

I think it'll be similar to Smalling a season on loan hopefully he does well enough to attract an offer and if there's no option to buy in the deal you negotiate a fair price.
 
I can't wait for this season to end. I want transfer news. At the moment there is not enought noise about your possible targets in the press. I hope ETH come in the day after his final game with Ajax and start sorting this mess. Give us a great summer and expectation for the new season.
 
Matt Judge has also left the club.

A senior executive in the club his role seemed to involve being the clubs negotiator in major deals. He will serve his notice period and unlikely to be involved in this summers recruitment process.

You would hope the replacement is lined up because we need a big summer of ins and outs so Utd need the staff in place to get these deals done.
 
Matt Judge has also left the club.

A senior executive in the club his role seemed to involve being the clubs negotiator in major deals. He will serve his notice period and unlikely to be involved in this summers recruitment process.

You would hope the replacement is lined up because we need a big summer of ins and outs so Utd need the staff in place to get these deals done.
Look good. Many people involved with the players are ditched. The recrutement team was bad and the wage management was wrong too. I hope we start looking for young hungry players with World class potential and pay them the just amount.
 
Look good. Many people involved with the players are ditched. The recrutement team was bad and the wage management was wrong too. I hope we start looking for young hungry players with World class potential and pay them the just amount.

He’s a hard man to judge (no pun intended) as we don’t know what he did he certainly wasn’t selecting the players or approving who got new contracts his job was to come in after those decisions were made and get the club the best deal possible. He will have been given parameters to work within in terms of budgets so if gets the deals done within budget then that is success.

Where Utd have got to be better is identifying the right targets and having a plan that these people fit into I don’t think that has much to do with Judge.

That said he was a Woodward man joined in 2012 and has been the clubs transfer negotiator since 2016 fair to say since 2016 there’s not been many deals that look like good ones in hindsight.
 
French press saying that ETH want Osimhen for 100m€ and if not Haller. He want De Jong for 70m€ and if not Phillips for 60m€. This kind of price are just crazy. We should avoid Osimhen and Phillips (injury prone) for this price. We should focus on Gravenberch, Tchouameni, Laimer and Tielmans, they are certainly less expensive than Phillips, maybe 50m€ top.
 
I don’t care what they cost they just need to fit in the system and perform.

Utd don’t dictate the price of players the selling clubs set the price if they’ve got lads under contract with no release clauses they can ask whatever they want.

I like Osihmen but Napoli have already invested big money for him so getting them to sell will be tough If Ronaldo is staying which seems likely the club won’t be spending big money on a striker.

if Newcastle start splashing the cash this summer as we all expect the prices are only going to go one way.
 
I can't wait for this season to end. I want transfer news. At the moment there is not enought noise about your possible targets in the press. I hope ETH come in the day after his final game with Ajax and start sorting this mess. Give us a great summer and expectation for the new season.
I'd rather there was no noise in the press about our targets and negotiations.
 
I don’t care what they cost they just need to fit in the system and perform.

Utd don’t dictate the price of players the selling clubs set the price if they’ve got lads under contract with no release clauses they can ask whatever they want.

I like Osihmen but Napoli have already invested big money for him so getting them to sell will be tough If Ronaldo is staying which seems likely the club won’t be spending big money on a striker.

if Newcastle start splashing the cash this summer as we all expect the prices are only going to go one way.
I care about the price because we don't have unlimited money like Newcastle. We have many position to fix, so we can't splash the cash like this. We should only go for under 25 with great potential and let ETH coach them his philosophy. Also Newcastle doesn't look like they want to over pay. We will see what they do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Back
Top