What needs to change?
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Lordkluivert
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Wait, i forget DVB we have the number in the midfield and should be fine if McTominay is converted into a CDM. None of this group except Fred make me confident but maybe ETH can work with them.
jsp
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He'll have to sign centre mids with 2 leaving this summer in Matic and Pogba the club will have to sign replacements for them.
I think he'll want a right back but maybe they sell Dalot and promote Laird see what he can get out of AWB.
Attacking areas will be weakened by the departures in the summer Cavani, Lingard and Mata are all off, we assume Greenwood is gone and not coming back, Ronaldo/Martial both could leave so they'll need to bring some new faces in up top as we have been short in these areas in the second half of the season.
I think for the centre backs he'll work with what he has for now as I do think they're good players they just need a structure and system that properly protects them. Our centre backs should not be exposed as easily as they are by every team that we play against it is embarrassing how easy it is to get at our defence.
I think he'll want a right back but maybe they sell Dalot and promote Laird see what he can get out of AWB.
Attacking areas will be weakened by the departures in the summer Cavani, Lingard and Mata are all off, we assume Greenwood is gone and not coming back, Ronaldo/Martial both could leave so they'll need to bring some new faces in up top as we have been short in these areas in the second half of the season.
I think for the centre backs he'll work with what he has for now as I do think they're good players they just need a structure and system that properly protects them. Our centre backs should not be exposed as easily as they are by every team that we play against it is embarrassing how easy it is to get at our defence.
Lordkluivert
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French press is linking us to Eriksen. Some 30 yo is not the profile we should look for, also we already have Bruno and DVB for the advanced role. Hope they are wrong. I want a CDM in first.
Lordkluivert
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Lordkluivert
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But he is 30 yo. I didn't think ETH was under pressure to deliver in his first year, i expected long term signing under 25 yo. Also what can we do with Bruno and DVB ? That is 3 offensive midfielders. You can't keep them all happy.
Mr C
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I dont care about age, I want players to come in who show those who want to stay what fight is. 30 is nothing these days.
Not that I actually want him at the club, but I'd be ok with the signing.
Bring him in, flog Bruno for 60m then start the rebuild. It's just an idea before everyone bangs on about Bruno being a hero.
For me, no one in this squad is safe, they have all proven to be unlikeable. And I would seriously think about selling players we could actually get money for to spend on the new squad.
Not that I actually want him at the club, but I'd be ok with the signing.
Bring him in, flog Bruno for 60m then start the rebuild. It's just an idea before everyone bangs on about Bruno being a hero.
For me, no one in this squad is safe, they have all proven to be unlikeable. And I would seriously think about selling players we could actually get money for to spend on the new squad.
jsp
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We've just given the guy a brand new contract so while it is just an idea it's a pretty unrealistic one because there's absolutely no chance Utd sell Bruno this summer unless someone offered us silly money £100m plus which just isn't going to happen.
Of course no one is safe but this squad needs to be built back from younger hungry players signed to fit a system not guys with big names/reputations who's careers have been on the slide for years.
It's pretty clear that someone in the club possibly even Ten Hag has said get Bruno tied down as I want him to be a key part of the team.
Like quite a few hopefully the fresh start under the new boss gets him back to his best because this season we've rarely seen it.
Of course no one is safe but this squad needs to be built back from younger hungry players signed to fit a system not guys with big names/reputations who's careers have been on the slide for years.
It's pretty clear that someone in the club possibly even Ten Hag has said get Bruno tied down as I want him to be a key part of the team.
Like quite a few hopefully the fresh start under the new boss gets him back to his best because this season we've rarely seen it.
Mr C
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It's not like it was a major new contract, it was an extra year. Probably just got paid more.
Yeah it's not going to happen. But I couldn't care less who got sold out of this mob. None of them are worthy of the badge. They have behaved and played disgustingly.
Yeah it's not going to happen. But I couldn't care less who got sold out of this mob. None of them are worthy of the badge. They have behaved and played disgustingly.
jsp
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Despite his poor form he's one of the few players who I think has kept trying in games even when things haven't worked for him.
Clear outs for me start with players who don't play because they aren't good enough or don't play because they can't stay fit I don't think Bruno can be put into either of those categories.
Clear outs for me start with players who don't play because they aren't good enough or don't play because they can't stay fit I don't think Bruno can be put into either of those categories.
Mr C
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Of course it's not going happen, I did say it was flippant and for Bruno lovers not to jump on it.
But if you want analyse it.
Yes I would be happy, sell Bruno for 60m, bring in free Erikson to replace him for 2 seasons probably on less money and spend that 60m wisely. I don't think the team would be worse for that. Eriksen is better than Bruno, at least we'd have a corner taker who doesn't hit the first man every single time.
PS @IDFD he's only 30, what's your max age limit for palyers? Didn't see you moaning about 37 Ronaldo.
jsp
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Why not?
Also, on corners I'd ask Spurs fans about his corners before suggesting he'd beat the first man.
Mr C
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Look, I don't get the Bruno love, he's not rubbish, but he's not brilliant, there are players who are just as good around. I really hate the way he moans all the time flapping his arms around them misplaces 5 passes. Don't start moaning until you've gor your own game sorted. I hate the way he loses shape all the time chasing shadows and then I get told it's ok, he's trying.
He can stay, I don't care, he's probably one of our better players. But I wouldn't care if he left.
I think a lot of our players get a pass from some fans because they think it's trechary to say our players are awful. I say look at the table and our performances the last 4 months. Zero F's given to the fans.
He can stay, I don't care, he's probably one of our better players. But I wouldn't care if he left.
I think a lot of our players get a pass from some fans because they think it's trechary to say our players are awful. I say look at the table and our performances the last 4 months. Zero F's given to the fans.
IDFD
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Erikson is not better than Bruno at anything. It's not even remotely close. Erikson didn't have any speed to start with and is already slowing. He went to Italy after already struggling to cope with the physicality of the league. Levy letting him go for £16m should highlight the decline he was already on. Not to do with his age the fact he was struggling physically in this league 2 years ago.
As for Erikson's corner taking I think you perhaps haven't watched him that closely. He's literally mocked by Spurs fans for how awful he is at it.
No one failed to clear the first man more than Eriksen last time he was around
He was so bad at them that the Athletic ran an article on him called the good the bad and the corner kicks
The good, the bad and the corner kicks: how Tottenham Hotspur fans should remember Christian Eriksen
The Danish midfielder's time at Tottenham is over - so how should Spurs fans reflect on his impact in north London?
theathletic.com
Mr C
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So he's just as crap at corners and is as slow as Bruno is what we've established here. I based his corners on Brentford this season BTW.
Like I say, Bruno can stay for now, I don't like him, but if his form improves I can tolerate him.
we can all find articles
www.caughtoffside.com
corner leading to a goal
www.si.com
two goal scoring chances from crosses
www.telegraph.co.uk
more influence
www.theguardian.com
can't actually link to the report
Eriksen delivers ANOTHER corner to Toney at the back post, who connects with a wicked volley that goes out for a goal kick. A difficult chance
Like I say, Bruno can stay for now, I don't like him, but if his form improves I can tolerate him.
we can all find articles
Eriksen corner gets Brentford goal in first start since Euro 2020
Christian Eriksen is making his first start since Euro 2020 and has just reminded everyone of his quality in the process.
www.caughtoffside.com
corner leading to a goal
Christian Eriksen match stats from Brentford vs Norwich City - Futbol on FanNation
He was Brentford's busiest player in terms of touches and passes.
www.si.com
two goal scoring chances from crosses
Blunt Tottenham escape Brentford with a point after reminder of Christian Eriksen's enduring class
Just when it appeared Tottenham had clawed their way back into the Champions League reckoning with a series of dazzling attacking performances, their top-four hopes are suddenly in danger of fading without a fight.
www.telegraph.co.uk
more influence
Brentford stun Chelsea as Christian Eriksen helps inspire wild comeback
Brentford boosted their hopes of survival by stunning Chelsea with an incredible second-half fightback
www.theguardian.com
can't actually link to the report
Eriksen delivers ANOTHER corner to Toney at the back post, who connects with a wicked volley that goes out for a goal kick. A difficult chance
Lordkluivert
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I don't want Eriksen because he is too old. It's the start of a complete rebuild so we should only focus on under 25 yo players. I proposed a list of young strong and fast players that will be in the project for more than 5 years. If we can't get them, fine, but we must first try hard. They are the type of players we absolutly need.
IDFD
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So he's just as crap at corners and is as slow as Bruno is what we've established here. I based his corners on Brentford this season BTW.
Like I say, Bruno can stay for now, I don't like him, but if his form improves I can tolerate him.
we can all find articles
Eriksen corner gets Brentford goal in first start since Euro 2020
Christian Eriksen is making his first start since Euro 2020 and has just reminded everyone of his quality in the process.
corner leading to a goal
Christian Eriksen match stats from Brentford vs Norwich City - Futbol on FanNation
He was Brentford's busiest player in terms of touches and passes.
two goal scoring chances from crosses
Blunt Tottenham escape Brentford with a point after reminder of Christian Eriksen's enduring class
Just when it appeared Tottenham had clawed their way back into the Champions League reckoning with a series of dazzling attacking performances, their top-four hopes are suddenly in danger of fading without a fight.
more influence
Brentford stun Chelsea as Christian Eriksen helps inspire wild comeback
Brentford boosted their hopes of survival by stunning Chelsea with an incredible second-half fightback
can't actually link to the report
Eriksen delivers ANOTHER corner to Toney at the back post, who connects with a wicked volley that goes out for a goal kick. A difficult chance
I also showed you the stats that back up the fact he hit the front man more than anyone.
He's an awful corner taker. Always has been.
If they're both on a free Bruno is getting a lot more interest. There's a reason he's at Brentford and the clubs being linked are us because of TH and Spurs. No reports of any of the elite clubs being in for him whereas if Bruno was available on a free there'd be a queue round the block for him.
Erikson at his best isn't as good as Bruno has been since joining. Let alone now.
Mr C
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I agree he's not coming and it's nonsense.
However if we were selling Bruno to get some wedge, he'd be a good temporary relief. It was just a flippant comment, which as usual has blown out control on here
And Bruno has been far from good this season btw, he's living on last seasons performances. He's been pretty poor since Ronaldo arrived.
If he carries this form into next year I hope we have a good good enough squad to bench him. Too many of these players are getting away with it at the moment because we have no-one to come in and replace them.
And as for being on free, of course many clubs would be in for him, like Pogba. But no-one is offering money for them either. God knows why we gave him that new deal, when as a club we got nothing out of it, one extra year, but he gets a payrise his form says he doesn't deserve. It's not like clubs were after him. Strange contract to dish out at that time. Which I guess is no surprise at united.
However if we were selling Bruno to get some wedge, he'd be a good temporary relief. It was just a flippant comment, which as usual has blown out control on here
And Bruno has been far from good this season btw, he's living on last seasons performances. He's been pretty poor since Ronaldo arrived.If he carries this form into next year I hope we have a good good enough squad to bench him. Too many of these players are getting away with it at the moment because we have no-one to come in and replace them.
And as for being on free, of course many clubs would be in for him, like Pogba. But no-one is offering money for them either. God knows why we gave him that new deal, when as a club we got nothing out of it, one extra year, but he gets a payrise his form says he doesn't deserve. It's not like clubs were after him. Strange contract to dish out at that time. Which I guess is no surprise at united.
Lordkluivert
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I agree, give me 2 from Gravenberch, Tchouameni and Laimer and i can say good bye to Bruno. He can't beat the press and can't stay in the midfield. He is useless at the moment and if someone is willing to give us your money back, i sell instantly.I agree he's not coming and it's nonsense.
However if we were selling Bruno to get some wedge, he'd be a good temporary relief. It was just a flippant comment, which as usual has blown out control on here
If he carries this form into next year I hope we have a good good enough squad to bench him. Too many of these players are getting away with it at the moment because we have no-one to come in and replace them.
And as for being on free, of course many clubs would be in for him, like Pogba. But no-one is offering money for them either. God knows why we gave him that new deal, when as a club we got nothing out of it, one extra year, but he gets a payrise his form says he doesn't deserve. It's not like clubs were after him. Strange contract to dish out at that time. Which I guess is no surprise at united.
Lordkluivert
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And people say we should give a chance to Maguire. Just sell this fridge to Newcastle now. You can't defend like this and pretend to be a pro. This guy is very limited and he has very bad instinct. That can't be coached, so we should accept your loss before it's to late and nobody want him anymore. He will be fine in a team that doesn't want to play for trophy or CL football.
Cosmic Slop
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I made it to 3:07 and couldn't take anymore. That's all recent, but would make a Worst Defending Ever DVD compilation. From Bruno's sweet pass to the opposition to Maguire trying to pull back a Norwich player who sailed past him, it's all too much. So, so bad.
Mr C
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Looking at that video, and watching 4 or 5 on Ten Hag, I think we will sell him. Not because of his poor form, but I don't think he's technically good enough, or fast enough. He's turned way to easy
But that video really doesn't do any of our players any favours even though Maguire comes out the worst
But that video really doesn't do any of our players any favours even though Maguire comes out the worst
jsp
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It's just a video of a crap football team no point singling individuals out in there as there are good players there but that's a team that has lost total faith in it's ability to play football.
A style of play needs to be implemented that can be used home and away against any opponent and bring positive results and then players are selected who fit that style it's really that simple. It's not rocket science Utd did it for years under Fergie and other clubs have followed suit sure the system evolved as the game evolved but there was clearly a structure of the way a Utd team plays and only players that fit that were signed. Didn't mean every signing worked out but that was the principle.
Some players who we don't think will adapt will and others who we thought would grasp it easily won't and those who can't fit in the system will leave.
A big part of this summer though will be spent getting the squad fitter the energy levels of some of our players are embarrassing compared to other top players.
A style of play needs to be implemented that can be used home and away against any opponent and bring positive results and then players are selected who fit that style it's really that simple. It's not rocket science Utd did it for years under Fergie and other clubs have followed suit sure the system evolved as the game evolved but there was clearly a structure of the way a Utd team plays and only players that fit that were signed. Didn't mean every signing worked out but that was the principle.
Some players who we don't think will adapt will and others who we thought would grasp it easily won't and those who can't fit in the system will leave.
A big part of this summer though will be spent getting the squad fitter the energy levels of some of our players are embarrassing compared to other top players.
Mr C
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It's safe to say that, according to that vid, Maguire has been the cause of a lot a problems at the back this season, out of position, mistiming tackles, getting turned, running into his own players etc. But lets just say it's been a bad season.
I think the problem for Maguire at the top of his game is his speed and turning ability when it comes to TH. He seems to like to play quite a high line. I can post another vid on the TH thread.
Certainly our full backs need to be able to play football and spend time in the opponants half, with the CM dropping back if need be, but generally leaving two CB and the other FB back, lots of space behind.
I can't see Maguire coping with this system at all.
But you're right, we wont know until it happens, some that we think will be ok could fail and vice versa.
What will be intersting is the DVDB/Bruno position. Where Donny has the advantage of knowing what TH wants.
That video I posted on the TH thread really highlighted few of our players are going to cut it with his system with major changes. A big part of his job will be retraining these players.
I think the problem for Maguire at the top of his game is his speed and turning ability when it comes to TH. He seems to like to play quite a high line. I can post another vid on the TH thread.
Certainly our full backs need to be able to play football and spend time in the opponants half, with the CM dropping back if need be, but generally leaving two CB and the other FB back, lots of space behind.
I can't see Maguire coping with this system at all.
But you're right, we wont know until it happens, some that we think will be ok could fail and vice versa.
What will be intersting is the DVDB/Bruno position. Where Donny has the advantage of knowing what TH wants.
That video I posted on the TH thread really highlighted few of our players are going to cut it with his system with major changes. A big part of his job will be retraining these players.
IDFD
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It would take 15 seconds to create a video making Lindelof to be the cause of all of our problems at the back. (I'd just find the highlights to the city game).
If Maguire is this massive issue and the defence is fine without him what the hell happened on Saturday?
Maguire hasn't had a great season however Lindelof put in the worst defensive performance statistically recorded against City. Varane is fit 50% of the time and we don't know who our full backs are from game to game. But yes Maguire is the issue.
You're going to be fuming when Maguire starts next season as ETH's #1 CB and Bruno is main midfielder aren't you?
jsp
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For me there's a compounding effect to Maguire this season.
Yes he has personally had a poor season no doubt about that he's made individual errors that have cost his team goals but we've also been a terribly organised team. Our full backs are poor and our midfield has not provided our defence with any protection all our centre backs have had a tough time of it.
Most of the lads that go will be the ones out of contracts and the ones who don't get enough playing time and are unhappy.
I don't expect many of the first team players to be part of the first round of major changes they might find themselves on the bench next season if they don't perform to expectations but I don't really expect them to be sold this summer.
Those who do stay will need to show the manager they can adapt to his system.
I actually think putting some restrictions on Bruno might do him some good as long as he adapts to it and I think he will from his time in Italy this season I think he's been trying to do to much in some games.
Yes he has personally had a poor season no doubt about that he's made individual errors that have cost his team goals but we've also been a terribly organised team. Our full backs are poor and our midfield has not provided our defence with any protection all our centre backs have had a tough time of it.
Most of the lads that go will be the ones out of contracts and the ones who don't get enough playing time and are unhappy.
I don't expect many of the first team players to be part of the first round of major changes they might find themselves on the bench next season if they don't perform to expectations but I don't really expect them to be sold this summer.
Those who do stay will need to show the manager they can adapt to his system.
I actually think putting some restrictions on Bruno might do him some good as long as he adapts to it and I think he will from his time in Italy this season I think he's been trying to do to much in some games.
Mr C
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We apaprantly offered Rudiger a contract so clearly the CB position is being looked at.
I agree it's not just Maguire, the whole defence has been shambolic, but despite that, he is really slow and easily turned. Some of the attempted tackles etc in that vid are not due to anything other than poor decisions and ability by Maguire. And although IDFD thinks I have an ante Maguire and Bruno vibe I don't. I do not think Maguire is as bad as this season has been for him. But i also don't think he is good enough long term for a top quality side.
As for Bruno, I don't like him, but there have been many brilliant United players I didn't like. I am not having a go at Bruno because I don't like him. He has been terrible recently.
We need to have a squad where we can drop these players who play badly. It's ridiculous to say he should be playing because he was superb 18 months ago.
None of this team is beyond sale for me.
There needs to some allowance, if some fans don't think players are good enough or in great form, they should be allowed to say so without being made to feel like a traitor.
On Maguire/Lindelof, I have long held the view neither is better than the other. But there is no doubting this season Maguire is having the worst of the two.
I don't get why some fans take it so personally. Maguire and Bruno have been terrible, they probably get picked on more because we expect the rest to be terrible. No one is going to say Fred, Dalot, McTom, Telles, etc are terrible because we expect them to be.
I would love all these players to find form, show effort and challange for the title. But they are not, and won't. Changes are needed.
I agree it's not just Maguire, the whole defence has been shambolic, but despite that, he is really slow and easily turned. Some of the attempted tackles etc in that vid are not due to anything other than poor decisions and ability by Maguire. And although IDFD thinks I have an ante Maguire and Bruno vibe I don't. I do not think Maguire is as bad as this season has been for him. But i also don't think he is good enough long term for a top quality side.
As for Bruno, I don't like him, but there have been many brilliant United players I didn't like. I am not having a go at Bruno because I don't like him. He has been terrible recently.
We need to have a squad where we can drop these players who play badly. It's ridiculous to say he should be playing because he was superb 18 months ago.
None of this team is beyond sale for me.
There needs to some allowance, if some fans don't think players are good enough or in great form, they should be allowed to say so without being made to feel like a traitor.
On Maguire/Lindelof, I have long held the view neither is better than the other. But there is no doubting this season Maguire is having the worst of the two.
I don't get why some fans take it so personally. Maguire and Bruno have been terrible, they probably get picked on more because we expect the rest to be terrible. No one is going to say Fred, Dalot, McTom, Telles, etc are terrible because we expect them to be.
I would love all these players to find form, show effort and challange for the title. But they are not, and won't. Changes are needed.
jsp
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Rudiger links were never strong enough for me always felt like chat as he was trying to drive up the Chelsea offer. Utd should be in contact with his team finding out what he's looking at but I never felt it was that serious a link always seemed Madrid were in the driving seat unless Chelsea made a him a great offer to stay. Would be an odd target given his best football has been played in a back 3 and the new boss doesn't play a back 3 that is why I always saw it as nonsense.
I think the point is that Maguire and Bruno have been good for Utd up until this season where for whatever reason the whole thing crashed so you probably do try to fit them in as long as they want to be at the club. See how they adapt if they can't adapt they'll have to be replaced.
For me you stick with the guys who were good prior to this season see if you can get them playing well again if you can't you then move them on.
Look if a top centre back is on the market and ETH says this is my guy and we can get him then go and get him.
For me the issue with Maguire is the fact that he's just become the whipping boy for so many fans and it's got way out of hand to the point where he was getting blamed for goals that have nothing to do with him. Other teams were pilling on him and rather than try and get around him and help we as fans dived on top with them.
He is slow but so were De Ligt and Blind ajax got to the CL semi final with them as centre backs if you protect a slow centre back it really isn't a problem.
The centre backs will look better as soon as Utd start stopping teams coming straight through the centre of the pitch at them.
I think the point is that Maguire and Bruno have been good for Utd up until this season where for whatever reason the whole thing crashed so you probably do try to fit them in as long as they want to be at the club. See how they adapt if they can't adapt they'll have to be replaced.
For me you stick with the guys who were good prior to this season see if you can get them playing well again if you can't you then move them on.
Look if a top centre back is on the market and ETH says this is my guy and we can get him then go and get him.
For me the issue with Maguire is the fact that he's just become the whipping boy for so many fans and it's got way out of hand to the point where he was getting blamed for goals that have nothing to do with him. Other teams were pilling on him and rather than try and get around him and help we as fans dived on top with them.
He is slow but so were De Ligt and Blind ajax got to the CL semi final with them as centre backs if you protect a slow centre back it really isn't a problem.
The centre backs will look better as soon as Utd start stopping teams coming straight through the centre of the pitch at them.
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