Video Assistant Referee (VAR) - Yes or No? | Clubs Vote Yes

www.bbc.co.uk

West Brom: VAR unable to find conclusive angle for offside 'goal'

The video assistant referee is unable to reverse an offside decision that ruled out a West Brom goal because of the positioning of the camera.
www.bbc.co.uk

Been a really bad weekend for VAR

McTominay foul for a disallowed goal
Tarkowski nearly booting off a players head no penalty
Jota offside in the Liverpool game
Diagna offside in the West Brom game.

Next season they need to ditch the lines on a close call and go to a system where you judge it by the eye if it looks onside you give it onside these mm marging decisions take forever and we all know they are not accurate.

As for the decisions on fouls there's not much that can be done for them as that is just bad referee decisions being made.
 
it should only be used for offside for me, and they need to improve that, and lay the rules so there is consitancy.

This reviewing every goal is killing the game.
 
That's from people who are watching these games at home on TV imagine being in the ground and not really being able to celebrate a goal as you don't know if it's going to be taken back for a review. I've been to one game with VAR in operation and it didn't actually get involved at all as it was a boring 0-0 where almost nothing happened.

It's become way to intrusive by checking every decision and we know from other sports like Cricket and Rugby it doesn't always give you the right answer.

Problem is you just know they won't scrap it now they've got it they'll keep messing with it every season.
 
www.espn.co.uk

The VAR Review: How VAR has changed the Premier League

After 1,140 games, trends have started to emerge which show the influence of VAR on the Premier League itself and its Laws. We take a closer look.
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk

interesting piece we are now changing the laws of the game to suit VAR nearly every season minor tweaks are made to try and help with VAR decisions.

The biggest one has to be remove the “clear and obvious” element for VAR to get involved if the VAR feels it requires a second look go and have a look. If we aren’t using it to try and get all the decisions right why are we using it?

65 times the ref was sent to the monitor last season every single time he changed his decision. Surely that can’t be right?
 
The offside and handball laws need to change so that VAR is not needed (or used) to adjudge them. They should never have to go to a frame-by-frame analysis to see if something happened. I think they should go back to the "daylight" rule for offside, between attacker and defender. For handball, if you have to go frame-by-frame to see where it struck the person or where their hand was when the ball touched it, you're doing it wrong. Also "contact" in the box should be changed to reflect knocking someone off the ball unfairly or seeing if enough contact was made to cause the player to go down.

I think VAR is good for looking at challenges that would result in either a caution or a penalty, nothing else. VAR would have prevented Maradona from scoring his hand of God goal, and would have kept Liverpool from winning the CL in Istanbul, so you have to admit it has its uses.
 
Cosmic Slop said:
The offside and handball laws need to change so that VAR is not needed (or used) to adjudge them. They should never have to go to a frame-by-frame analysis to see if something happened. I think they should go back to the "daylight" rule for offside, between attacker and defender. For handball, if you have to go frame-by-frame to see where it struck the person or where their hand was when the ball touched it, you're doing it wrong. Also "contact" in the box should be changed to reflect knocking someone off the ball unfairly or seeing if enough contact was made to cause the player to go down.

I think VAR is good for looking at challenges that would result in either a caution or a penalty, nothing else. VAR would have prevented Maradona from scoring his hand of God goal, and would have kept Liverpool from winning the CL in Istanbul, so you have to admit it has its uses.
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True but it has killed the excitement of a goal as you now have this awkward moment of is anyone offside or was there a foul or maybe a handball that will mean it gets chalked off. You don't get that moment of pure excitement anymore which I think is bad for the game.

I think the modifications have been good but the handball was a mess for a few seasons and to an extent it still is as they can't really decide how high up the arm does the sleeve start?

Offside has improved I think but it still takes way to long to deal with the close calls and I do wonder if we need to simplify it further and set the lines off your feet not where your body is. We also have that stupid period where we play on just in case even though everyone knows the player was offside but the assistants have to keep the flag down just in case.

On penalties they seem to have decided in the box more contact is needed that is needed for a foul which just isn't the rules the penalty box is not held to a higher standard if it's a foul outside the box it's a foul inside the box. There's this idea now that attackers who initiate contact aren't given penalties if you get between the defender and the ball it's not up to you to avoid contact, if you want to slow down and the defender clatters into you that should still be a penalty.

I just look at it and think overall has it improved the game and the answer is no the decisions are still mostly subjective and on field decision by the ref seems to set to high a bar for changing a decision. I don't see the point of the pitch side review the guy acting as VAR is a fully qualified ref if he says look you've made a mistake we're changing it just change it don't make him go and watch the replays.

The only thing I think it has done which is great for the game is it really has cleared up blatant diving that is such a smaller problem in the game now you don't have players collapsing in a heap every time they go into the box now trying to con refs because they know with VAR they won't get anything.
 
new "robo linesmen" to be used at the WC. takes away any doubt for offside....apart from interfering with play
 
Interested to see how they work as that would be a big improvement if it's accurate and can get to the answer quickly that's a big improvement on the current system.

I guess the problem for speed will be it'll still require some sort of human over-ride to remove "inactive" players from the decision.

I'm assuming they'll only be used to review a goal they won't be using the software in play so for example you go through win a free kick or corner that you then score from that won't get pulled back as it's a new phase of play?
 
Apparantly it's really quick. Limb tracking of all players giving instant decisions. The only time will be deciding interference.
 
Yeah I know it's something they've been trialling for a few years so hopefully they've got all the kinks out of it.

Guess the next step is the whole clear and obvious thing they need to scrap that for penalty or red card decision it either is or it isn't how the ref saw it in real speed shouldn't really matter as he's making a split second call. The VAR has the time to watch the replays and make that decision he shouldn't need to call the ref over to a screen to review it they should work together and the refs should just accept that VAR may over rule him on the field.
 
Had a last minute penalty appeal for a blatant handball turned down.

Sometging needs to be done about the refs, they are awful.
 
jsp said:
Had a last minute penalty appeal for a blatant handball turned down.

Sometging needs to be done about the refs, they are awful.
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The most infuriating thing is this 'high bar for intervention' seems to be an excuse for failure. What the layperson would deem a blatant handball or red card or penalty isn't checked or corrected, but an offside toenail that the layperson couldn't say was on or off with any degree of certainty is worth a 5 min review? The entire system needs a rethink.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
The most infuriating thing is this 'high bar for intervention' seems to be an excuse for failure. What the layperson would deem a blatant handball or red card or penalty isn't checked or corrected, but an offside toenail that the layperson couldn't say was on or off with any degree of certainty is worth a 5 min review? The entire system needs a rethink.
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Yep, it's maddening. You forgot the fingernail in front of said toenail, the offside thing is truly ridiculous as far as I am concerned. It should all be judged on the positioning of the feet not other parts of the body. Much in the way as a sprinter can break the tape with his chest, they don't say he didn't win because his toe was sticking out do they! or a horse winning by the nose on the last nod of the head. In football only the feet should matter in regards to offside.
 
EtHagArmy said:
Yep, it's maddening. You forgot the fingernail in front of said toenail, the offside thing is truly ridiculous as far as I am concerned. It should all be judged on the positioning of the feet not other parts of the body. Much in the way as a sprinter can break the tape with his chest, they don't say he didn't win because his toe was sticking out do they! or a horse winning by the nose on the last nod of the head. In football only the feet should matter in regards to offside.
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Just watched the Harvey Barnes one on MOTD. It is of course very tight and a tough one to take if you are ruled off with such small margins. But that is how offsides should be decided, by the foot positioning.
 
jsp said:
Had a last minute penalty appeal for a blatant handball turned down.

Sometging needs to be done about the refs, they are awful.
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Wow, a truly awful decision. Makes a total mockery of the game. How have we ever got to the place where we were looking to technology to make all this better and yet it has made it worse?
 
EtHagArmy said:
Wow, a truly awful decision. Makes a total mockery of the game. How have we ever got to the place where we were looking to technology to make all this better and yet it has made it worse?
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Refs are just playing safe and giving nothing then letting VAR correct a howler but it isn’t even doing that now.

The standard of refereeing is dropping massively.
 
VAR 'did not fully investigate' disputed Brentford equaliser in 1-1 draw at Arsenal
The level of rank incompetence at Stockley Park is embarrassing. How do you forget to draw lines or investigate an offside when that's literally your job? Are they just sitting around slamming pints and bsing with their mates? For a multi-billion pound organization to operate one of its core pieces this way is unbelievably poor.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
VAR 'did not fully investigate' disputed Brentford equaliser in 1-1 draw at Arsenal
The level of rank incompetence at Stockley Park is embarrassing. How do you forget to draw lines or investigate an offside when that's literally your job? Are they just sitting around slamming pints and bsing with their mates? For a multi-billion pound organization to operate one of its core pieces this way is unbelievably poor.
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They spent ages looking at a subjective offside relating to a blocking player that they forget to check the cross. There was a lot to get through but surely you start with the last pass then work backwards.

The Brighton goal that was ruled out. The lines appear to be drawn against the second deepest defender but I think that was a trick of the camera. They also wasted 2-3 minutes clearing up an obvious offside in the West Ham vs Chelsea game. In that case it looked like the technology wasn’t working properly.

It is fair to say VAR and the refs have had a very poor weekend.
 
EtHagArmy said:
Yep, it's maddening. You forgot the fingernail in front of said toenail, the offside thing is truly ridiculous as far as I am concerned. It should all be judged on the positioning of the feet not other parts of the body. Much in the way as a sprinter can break the tape with his chest, they don't say he didn't win because his toe was sticking out do they! or a horse winning by the nose on the last nod of the head. In football only the feet should matter in regards to offside.
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Nearly got done by the offside finger nail then!
 
jsp said:
They spent ages looking at a subjective offside relating to a blocking player that they forget to check the cross. There was a lot to get through but surely you start with the last pass then work backwards.

The Brighton goal that was ruled out. The lines appear to be drawn against the second deepest defender but I think that was a trick of the camera. They also wasted 2-3 minutes clearing up an obvious offside in the West Ham vs Chelsea game. In that case it looked like the technology wasn’t working properly.

It is fair to say VAR and the refs have had a very poor weekend.
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Just goes to show it's not the technology that's the problem. It's the idiots running it that need sorting out.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
Just goes to show it's not the technology that's the problem. It's the idiots running it that need sorting out.
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I think to a degree it is both.

It isn't idiot proof as is any human operated system but they have semi automated offside on trial and it should be coming in soon this should stop both of these incidents.

The issue I have is we've changed so many rules to try and accommodate VAR now and officials are changing the interpretation of the rules during the season.
 
Was not a good weekend for the refs and VAR.

Brighton received their 3rd apology from PGMOL since the world cup.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Dean declined VAR call to save 'mate' from 'grief'

Ex-referee Mike Dean failed to use VAR in a Premier League match to save fellow official Anthony Taylor from extra "grief".
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

I do wonder if the VAR should be operated by refs who don't mix with the actual match officials because you have to be willing to send the ref over even it'll embarrass them.

A good match official doesn't mean a good VAR and Dean basically admits he hated being a VAR.
 
Liverpool's overturned red card last week's there shouldn't even be a need to overturn reds anymore. We have a system in place to overturn them on the pitch.
 
Forest have issued a complaint to the PGMOL over the red card and penalty awarded to Utd.

While I don't think either where 100% nailed on decisions for the referee's they were probably 70/30 in our favour so they were both justified but obviously fall into the category of you aren't going to get them every time and VAR is never going to overturn them.

I've seen a number of pundits saying Rashford was never a penalty but I honestly don't see what their complaint is. He's got to the ball first, run across the defender which is what we are all taught to do as kids and the defender makes a tackle that takes his legs out. He might be playing for it but if the defender doesn't touch him then he's in on the keeper.

On the red card one I can see the issue but it's a cynical foul and it stopped Bruno having the opportunity to beat the keeper to the ball which was likely a 50/50 race. That is a goal scoring opportunity that has been denied. Personally I'd like to see the laws changed so situations like that outside of the box result in a penalty rather than a red card inside the box or outside to me shouldn't really matter.
 
I think defo a pen. Red card is 50/50 but VVD got sent off so there is consistency
 
The Rashford one was no worse than the Szobersli one for Liverpool the week before. I don't remember that becoming a huge debate amongst all the media pundits.

I think the Van Dijk one was 100% a red card Isak is clearly getting to that ball before the keeper there can be no complaints.

I noticed yesterday as well that City got a penalty for a handball where the player slide in and blocked a cross, compare that to last weekend where the Spurs defender blocked a shot with his arm from Garnacho and no penalty given.
 
VVD was definitley a free kick, but there was cover, I think. I only looked once to be honest. Much like the Forest one. Both were fouls. Red is a bit 50/50.
VVD props gets a longer ban for his behavior, at least he should, as captain.
 
Mr C said:
VVD was definitley a free kick, but there was cover, I think. I only looked once to be honest. Much like the Forest one. Both were fouls. Red is a bit 50/50.
VVD props gets a longer ban for his behavior, at least he should, as captain.
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I don't think there was any cover for VVD he was last man and Isak was looking to control the ball and go one vs one on the keeper and was taken out.

Worral, Boly was alongside him but he'd have had to make up a lot of ground and the ball wasn't under Bruno's control it was basically a straight race between him and the keeper. I don't think Boly is getting across but on the Worral one I can see an argument for it only being a yellow but it wasn't a terrible decision.

To me they're both red cards they were cynical fouls that stopped players running through at goal. I think the rules need changing fouls like that should be punished by a penalty rather than a red card.

Van Dijk's behaviour after the red card should be an extra game on his ban.
 
Apology issued to Liverpool within an hour of the game finishing.

Absolute shocker today against Liverpool.

A clearly onside goal wasn’t checked by VAR after the on field official stuck his flag up.

I honestly think it’s time to bin VAR it has not improved the game.
 

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