Van de Beek‘s future

Sideshow Bob

Sideshow Bob

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Tweet says United have offered Van de Beek a loan to Roma, but he’s not a priority for Roma.

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No one is going to buy him be lucky to get a token offer of £5m at this point.

He's barely played any football since he came here 3 years ago.

Even on loan at Everton he got injured after a few games and he'll be on £5-6m a year salary.

If a loan is all we can find for him take it and just hope that he plays well enough that it creates some interest in him next summer as he's got no future here.
 
I take my loose now and sell for peanuts just to free a place in the team. I don't want us to be related to this Guy any longer. He is a complete faillure.
 
Lordkluivert said:
I take my loose now and sell for peanuts just to free a place in the team. I don't want us to be related to this Guy any longer. He is a complete faillure.
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I think the point is you wont even get peanuts for him as things stand he's worth less than zero even on a free the club would still likely end up having to cough up some of the wages he's still got to come on his contract.

Clubs outside the prem haven't got the money to be spending on a player like him and clubs in the prem have got much better options.

Honestly think best case is he's out on loan with someone paying maybe 50% of his wages next year I expect it'll be a deadline day deal too.
 
Except other clubs manage to do it all the time. Take Chelsea for example.

20/21
- Chelsea: Sold/received loan fees: 7 players for €57.25m (all abroad)
- United: Sold/received loan fees: 4 players for €19.5m

21/22
- Chelsea: 11 players for €148.94m (9 abroad)
- United: 3 players for €31.1m

22/23
- Chelsea: 8 players for €67.83m (5 abroad)
- United: 3 players for €13.25m

They've earned €210m more than us in sales over the past 3 seasons and have shipped 16 more players out. I didn't bother to look up the wages, but I can't imagine our players were on a whole lot more. We just really really REALLY suck at selling players and recouping any sort of decent fees.
 
They are very good at selling academy players but they struggle with the first team players same way we do.

Take Ziyech for example or Pulisic they don’t want them and haven’t for at least 18 months but can’t shift them.

It was also part of their business model they would buy players to loan out then sell with no intention of giving them chances in the first team. They have something like 50 first team players on the books.

They‘ve made a good start this summer though looks like they’ll get about 150m for Kovacic, Havertz and Mount plus whatever they can get for the lads off to Saudi.
 
Poor Donny. Remember when we signed him and it was a 'step in the right direction'. The poor Donny had no idea, did he?

Get him sold to Roma.
 
Not sure Chelsea is a club you'd put forward as one to copy on transfers and loans, in fact a well run club would look at Chelsea and do the opposite. For every success there's half a dozen lads they purchased when they were stock-pilling their way to glory who have cost the club a small fortune(original over the top fee to make sure they got the player, contract renewals so they could send them out on their 4th loan, Agent fees etc etc), and end up letting them leave for nowt. A dodgy accountant or two can only cover up so much ....
 
Justin Cider said:
Not sure Chelsea is a club you'd put forward as one to copy on transfers and loans, in fact a well run club would look at Chelsea and do the opposite. For every success there's half a dozen lads they purchased when they were stock-pilling their way to glory who have cost the club a small fortune(original over the top fee to make sure they got the player, contract renewals so they could send them out on their 4th loan, Agent fees etc etc), and end up letting them leave for nowt. A dodgy accountant or two can only cover up so much ....
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With Abramovich, there was too much money to fail. Boehly is finagling transfers with Saudi investors. It's quite clever, in a supercilious way.
 
jsp said:
They are very good at selling academy players but they struggle with the first team players same way we do.

Take Ziyech for example or Pulisic they don’t want them and haven’t for at least 18 months but can’t shift them.

It was also part of their business model they would buy players to loan out then sell with no intention of giving them chances in the first team. They have something like 50 first team players on the books.

They‘ve made a good start this summer though looks like they’ll get about 150m for Kovacic, Havertz and Mount plus whatever they can get for the lads off to Saudi.
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Full sales (€):
20/21 - Morata (35m) Mario Pasalic (14.5m), Nathan (3m)
21/22 - Abraham (41m), Zouma (35m), Tomori (31.6m), Marc Guéhi (23.34m), Zappacosta (6m), Moses (5m), Giroud (2.85m)
22/23 - Werner (20m), Emerson (15.4m), Jorginho (11.3m), Gilmour (8.33m), Batshuayi (3.5m), Kenedy (500k)\\

Pasalic, Nathan, Abraham, Tomori, Guéhi would be the academy players they've sold leaving €145.38m in sales to more than double our €63.85m. Remove Dan James (29.1m) from our sales and that figure looks even worse.

Yes, they've bought and 'developed' players (by loaning them out) to sell on for profit which have contributed to their overall incomings, but they've also recouped fees for players who were surplus to requirements. The fact that we can't do similar probably has more to with our dodgy accounting valuations and Glazernomics than wages or player unwillingness to move on. DvB, Martial, Maguire, at least one RB, Henderson, McTominay, Fred and Telles should easily get you 150m+ this summer, but none of us expect that to happen. Nothing stopping us from making money in sales other than our own inability/unwillingness to get deals done.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
Full sales (€):
20/21 - Morata (35m) Mario Pasalic (14.5m), Nathan (3m)
21/22 - Abraham (41m), Zouma (35m), Tomori (31.6m), Marc Guéhi (23.34m), Zappacosta (6m), Moses (5m), Giroud (2.85m)
22/23 - Werner (20m), Emerson (15.4m), Jorginho (11.3m), Gilmour (8.33m), Batshuayi (3.5m), Kenedy (500k)\\

Pasalic, Nathan, Abraham, Tomori, Guéhi would be the academy players they've sold leaving €145.38m in sales to more than double our €63.85m. Remove Dan James (29.1m) from our sales and that figure looks even worse.

Yes, they've bought and 'developed' players (by loaning them out) to sell on for profit which have contributed to their overall incomings, but they've also recouped fees for players who were surplus to requirements. The fact that we can't do similar probably has more to with our dodgy accounting valuations and Glazernomics than wages or player unwillingness to move on. DvB, Martial, Maguire, at least one RB, Henderson, McTominay, Fred and Telles should easily get you 150m+ this summer, but none of us expect that to happen. Nothing stopping us from making money in sales other than our own inability/unwillingness to get deals done.
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Just looking through that list Morata, Jorginho, Giroud, Werner and probably a few others all sold at huge losses.

Our sales in the last few seasons is basically Dan James and James Garner.

The issue for us selling our players is we pay them to much and no one wants them, even worse for years we kept giving players new contracts. Utd would happily sell these players but if no one is making even a reasonable offer and the players don’t want to leave we are stuck. A few will likely depart this summer but for others it will be loans again until contracts expire.
 
Yeah, they haven't made profits on these players, but at least they've recouped something. We've let Pogba, Lingard leave for nothing when there was at least 100m. Sanchez and Rojo could've gotten us a few million had we sold when we knew they weren't a part of the first team squad.

I think Fulham gave us a few quid for Pereira as well, but sales have been few and far between. We cry poverty when it comes to incomings but then don't raise anything when we have players who could be sold for something and that money reinvested.

I don't think our deadwood is on significantly higher wages than Chelsea's, but for whatever reason they don't feel like they need to move on, or in the case of Lingard and Pogba, we won't sell them when we have the chance. Maybe they feel like we'll give them another contract to sit around and do nothing because we've done this so many times in the past? Maybe we've just attracted the wrong types of players over this period who aren't incentivized by success on the pitch? Maybe we haven't been ruthless enough, where Roman certainly was, and their players knew when it was time to go? Maybe something more nefarious?

Or maybe, other clubs/agents know they don't have to stump up a fee because we'll just loan them players AND subsidise their wages. Why buy somebody when we will basically give them to you for free? We haven't exactly been good at negotiating anything (transfers, fees, wages, contracts) so it wouldn't surprise me if we get taken advantage of when it comes to sales as well.
 
Cruella ne Ville said:
Yeah, they haven't made profits on these players, but at least they've recouped something. We've let Pogba, Lingard leave for nothing when there was at least 100m. Sanchez and Rojo could've gotten us a few million had we sold when we knew they weren't a part of the first team squad.

I think Fulham gave us a few quid for Pereira as well, but sales have been few and far between. We cry poverty when it comes to incomings but then don't raise anything when we have players who could be sold for something and that money reinvested.

I don't think our deadwood is on significantly higher wages than Chelsea's, but for whatever reason they don't feel like they need to move on, or in the case of Lingard and Pogba, we won't sell them when we have the chance. Maybe they feel like we'll give them another contract to sit around and do nothing because we've done this so many times in the past? Maybe we've just attracted the wrong types of players over this period who aren't incentivized by success on the pitch? Maybe we haven't been ruthless enough, where Roman certainly was, and their players knew when it was time to go? Maybe something more nefarious?

Or maybe, other clubs/agents know they don't have to stump up a fee because we'll just loan them players AND subsidise their wages. Why buy somebody when we will basically give them to you for free? We haven't exactly been good at negotiating anything (transfers, fees, wages, contracts) so it wouldn't surprise me if we get taken advantage of when it comes to sales as well.
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The Lingard one I will give you he should have been sold after that loan move as his stock was never higher but Pogba was a problem as no one wanted him. He spent 4 years looking for a move out of the club and no one was biting. Sanchez and Rojo were both on insane wages that the sort of clubs looking at them couldn't get close to. Could even make a case that players like Henderson and Tuanzebe could have been sold after decent loan spells rather than retained and in the case of Henderson given a massive contract.

Utd have never been particularly strong sellers as we were never really a selling club most players we signed tended to stay for a long time we never really had that churn of staff that a club like Chelsea had. I'd say in recent years Lukaku, James, Garner and Periera were all good sales we got decent fees in for all of them.

Utd just don't seem very well connected to the other clubs we need to sell a player and we really struggle to find a home for him. Probably doesn't help that when players flop here it really destroys their reputation.

I also don't think this is just a Utd problem. Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs will all have players out on loan that are costing them money.

Hopefully the new regime of Murtough/Ten Hag will put a stop to these bad signings and build a squad that holds its value rather than loses it.
 
In talks with Real Sociedad.

My guess would be a loan deal rather than a sale but think that’s a great move for him.
 
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They can't afford to sign him, might just be a be a loan deal. Unless they've got somebody United would take in a swap/part-exchange deal, there's nobody obvious though
 
I'm guessing they want a loan deal with no fee but they cover the wages.

Bad deal for Utd but they need to get him out playing next season.
 
That wouldn't be ideal by any stretch, but not really sure what other option we have.

He's under contract for the next two seasons, so we'd like to sell him now to maximize his value, but he doesn't have any value right now. IF, and it's a huge if, he can go on loan and actually look like a competent footballer, maybe we can get a nominal fee next summer. If he goes on loan and repeats his Everton experience, we get nothing, which is his current value.
 
I think that is the issue if he stays he's unlikely to get many games so any value he does have just keeps dropping, I do feel sorry for him it just hasn't worked out for him and I put that on the club. He was a badly thought out signing at the time he wasn't what we needed and he's had some rotten luck with injuries.

If he goes on loan and does well you might get teams willing to pay £10-15m for him next summer he's 26 so should still have plenty left in him but to even get that we'd need him out on loan playing well. If he's on loan playing well he might get back in the national team setup and if he had a good Euros next summer you might get a few more interested parties.

Probably goes on loan this season then goes back to Ajax next summer for a fraction of what we paid for him.
 
Then there's this;

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Not sure what's worth £25m; Donny or the salt with which you need to take with this.
 
We’d need about 17.5m to cover what we still owe on FFP over the next 2 years.

Hard to see us getting near that he’s a huge gamble for any club at this point.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Van de Beek in talks with Real Sociedad

Manchester United midfielder Donny van de Beek is in talks with Real Sociedad about a move away from Old Trafford.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Real Sociedad qualified for the Champions League this season so maybe they have got a bit of money to spend.
 
It needs to be a loan with a fee agreed at the end of it. If it’s just an option then we should say forget it, may as well just keep him here as a squad option.
 
I think you take whatever you can get, even a loan deals gets him off the wage bill and might get people interested in him next summer.

He just isn't needed. Unless there's a massive injury pile up he's not going to be anywhere near the first team this season.
 
Latest rumour is he's off to FC Lorient on loan for the season.
 
Pleased for the kid, he's got a good move there, hope it goes well for him, he deserves a break!

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Hopefully this ends in a permanent transfer, nothing personal against him but he needs to move on.

A badly thought out signing that hasn't worked out for anyone involved.

Much like Mount we signed a player to solve our midfield problem who doesn't actually play the position we've signed him for.

Crazy to think if Covid hadn't hit this lad was probably going to sign for Real Madrid.
 
All official he’s joined Frankfurt on loan until the end of the season.

They have an option to buy for €11m + 3m add ons at the end of the season.
 
Yep good luck to him, hopefully he does well enough to make it a permanent move.
 
What I don’t quite get though is the future price? Like ok he’s not played a lot in 2 years maybe longer. The move to United has not worked out for him or the club. But if he plays well during this loan (and everyone knows he’s a talented player) then that future price is nothing.
 
Think it’s a realistic valuation to be honest outside the premier league transfer fees are much lower and he will likely want fairly high wages. The clubs that would be interesting intaking him will be the middle of the table clubs from leagues like Germany, Italy or Spain. In the summer he will be in the final 12 months of his contract.

I think Utd want him gone that fee probably covers whatever we still owe in terms of FFP so we effectively walk away break even and get his wages off the books.
 

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