Slow, Pragmatic, Boring and Dated

If I remember correctly we have like 4 counter attack goals all season. Also we take lesser amount of shots per game than all of the top 6. But it’s not a massive difference. City I think are on 17 shots per game and we are on 14 point something. Maybe the shots which they take are more clear cut chances hence the higher goals.

Yeah it's all about quality of chances so City with their 17 shots per game are creating a lot of very good chances whereas Utd with their 14 are not.

I think we were one of the highest rated teams for shots from outside the area in the league whereas City tend to work the ball then look for cut backs this would make a huge difference between the Xg rating of each team as close range is much higher value than long range.

As I said it's not perfect but it gives you an idea of what we are doing.

I would be interesting to see the Xg league table (no idea where you're pulling your stats from) to see how Utd rank.
 
Every united fan I know doesn't not like the term Man U, I always pick people on that, but that is another thread.

Of course I don't know, but this is how I perceive the comments I read, not saying I am right.

But it smacks a bit of fans who been brought up during the Fergie years, expecting us to win every season. It took Fergie years to get the club to that level, nearly getting sacked. It's unreal the level of success he achieved and many united fans have been spoilt.

You can't come into a club, in the state we were in, and expect instant results. It takes time to build, as long as you are there or there abouts and picking up an odd trophy you shouldn't really complain. It's a bit spoilt brat, I want it and I want it now. Why not give the man a chance to build what he can.

I often here the united way, what exactly is that, because when I was growing up it was 442 with two wide wingers. You can't play like that any more. There is no united way, Fergie won boring many times, Sexton was boring all the time, he got given 4 years though

Atkinson to Ferguson, was the same football, the united way, if so why change the manager.

In fact if anything is the united way, it's giving the manager the time to do what he wants to do. And play youth from the academy, which Jose has also done.
 
I don’t care about the origins. The term Man U should never be used anymore
 
It’s a term that many reference with Munich and as such it should be ignored and not used.
 
I don't use it but it doesn't bother me. No opposing fans I know use it in reference to Munich, it has been used in the past by some, not sure it is now.

Is Jose going to stick around and build something like Fergie though? I just can't see it, the whole point of Mourinho at United is getting us back to where we belong, winning or competing for trophies and leaving us in better shape for the next guy, I can't disagree that he's doing/done that but I think after next season, it's time to move on and someone else come in and take us on again.

It's not about only being used to success in the Fergie years, just because we weren't very successful before Fergie and in his early days it doesn't mean we should accept being unsuccessful now. There isn't going to be another Fergie who sticks around for nearly 3 decades, big clubs don't have anyone longer than 3 years these days never mind 30. There seems to be this thing that we're different to the rest and we should give managers time, watching other clubs be successful while we try and build a Fergie-esque dynasty again. That's gone, it won't happen anywhere else again, the game is too money driven for that now. If we really wanted to give a manager time and someone who's give youth a chance, we'd have given the job to Giggs as the plan seemed to be before Van Gaal left.

Nobody was expecting instant results, there was a lot of work to do after Van Gaal, he's brought in players and he's yet to get the best out of them. I'm not saying Mourinho can't improve us next season but if there isn't an improvement on the playing style next season, I can't see a reason to continue giving him more time because he's a short term manager, I can't see any sign in the notion that he's changed and here for the long haul. He's here to leave the squad in better shape for the next man.
 
I don't use it but it doesn't bother me. No opposing fans I know use it in reference to Munich, it has been used in the past by some, not sure it is now.

Is Jose going to stick around and build something like Fergie though? I just can't see it, the whole point of Mourinho at United is getting us back to where we belong, winning or competing for trophies and leaving us in better shape for the next guy, I can't disagree that he's doing/done that but I think after next season, it's time to move on and someone else come in and take us on again.

It's not about only being used to success in the Fergie years, just because we weren't very successful before Fergie and in his early days it doesn't mean we should accept being unsuccessful now. There isn't going to be another Fergie who sticks around for nearly 3 decades, big clubs don't have anyone longer than 3 years these days never mind 30. There seems to be this thing that we're different to the rest and we should give managers time, watching other clubs be successful while we try and build a Fergie-esque dynasty again. That's gone, it won't happen anywhere else again, the game is too money driven for that now. If we really wanted to give a manager time and someone who's give youth a chance, we'd have given the job to Giggs as the plan seemed to be before Van Gaal left.

Nobody was expecting instant results, there was a lot of work to do after Van Gaal, he's brought in players and he's yet to get the best out of them. I'm not saying Mourinho can't improve us next season but if there isn't an improvement on the playing style next season, I can't see a reason to continue giving him more time because he's a short term manager, I can't see any sign in the notion that he's changed and here for the long haul. He's here to leave the squad in better shape for the next man.
It isn’t about accepting being unsuccessful. It’s about accepting that there might be a barren period before we get back to our winning ways. It is also possible that we may never return to how it was during fergie’s time. I mean look at Liverpool. But it all comes back to whether you consider progress has been made or not. I started out by saying it can mean different things to different people. So if you consider progress hasn’t been made then it’s your opinion and you are entitled to that.
 
Tell me something, if we'd have been knocked out the European league earlier and concentrated solely on the league and finished 3rd ould we have 'progressed'?

The fact we put all our eggs in the Europa league made us finish 6th. I'm pretty sure we'd have finished higher had we not.

If that was so I don't really see much progression.
 
Our best league finish since Fergie retired. Our best points total since Fergie retired. How isn't that an improvement? I struggle to comprehend anyone thinking this season wasn't another step forward and another step in the right direction. I think people have made their minds up about Mourinho and that's that. Compare this season to the one under Moyes and the two under LVG if you don't think it's a step forward then I don't think it's a conversation worth having because your mind is made up and you'll never change it.
 
You can't argue it's progress but what you can argue about is given the investment in the team over 2 summers have we progressed fast enough?

Whatever the number is close to £300m has been spent on the squad in 2 summers and we haven't managed to sustain a title challenge in either of his two seasons it's not panic stations we must sack him but it's certainly make or break for him next season in terms of making sure Utd are in the race next season come March/April.

You can question the reasons why after our great start where we were scoring lots of goals and Liverpool were struggled he went to Anfield and parked the bus for a 0-0 will seemed to zap us of any momentum? You can question why he decided to play so negatively in a European Cup second round game against a fairy average Sevilla team? You can question why midway through a season he started playing silly games over his new contract in the press rather than just focusing on his job and leaving it until the end of the season?

Utd might not win the league next season in fact I'll go as far as saying they probably won't but the football on offer has got to change and the whole vibe around the club has got to somehow change from a miserable one back to a positive one as this season has been a step backwards for that in my opinion.
 
The vibe around the club is created by the naysayers. If they/we cheered up a bit the media would have to get off of our backs and then the vibe would improve. It’s a vicious circle the media are feeding off the negativity around the fans the fans are feeding off the media and everything spirals.
 
Sharpe is spot on. Football was my escape from work, now work is my escape from football! Seriously though, winning trophies is good ‘n’ all but it’s about the journey. Finishing second or sixth is irrelevant if I’m not enjoying watching the team play. I don’t expect free flowing football week in week out, but it would be nice to be occasionally excited.
 
We need to get back to entertaining more, but we should expect things take time, the man said he needed 3 season, lets give him that. We need to give people a chance to do their work. If he doesn't sort out the defence properly and we have the same negative football all next season then yes, maybe there is point to made that he didn't learn the weak areas from the season just gone. But we seem to be writing off the season before it has started and the new players before they have been bought.

I don't want to be a club that changes manager every 2 seasons and you perpetually buying new players to suit that coach. If we want to do that then the whole structure of the club needs altering to the point the manager has no say in who is bought.

But we are not like that at the moment and the manager needs the time and the support he was assured when he signed. There is no point saying you have 3 years mate, then after 2 years into his plan say nah, forget about it, see you later.

As for the money spent and value for money it's irrelevant, we pay over the odd for players. The cost of players has no relevance. He is building a side, you cant do that quickly, you cant bring in 10 players in one go. And certainly you can't expect them all to gel immediately.
 
The vibe around the club is created by the naysayers. If they/we cheered up a bit the media would have to get off of our backs and then the vibe would improve. It’s a vicious circle the media are feeding off the negativity around the fans the fans are feeding off the media and everything spirals.

You can't force yourself to enjoy something you either do or you don't and I'd say right now the majority of fans don't enjoy watching this team play and haven't done for a long time even some of the years under Fergie after 2009 were pragmatic but Fergie helped maintain the buzz and the belief that it would get better.

Trophies will plaster over performances with fans as the ends justify the means and that is what this manager does but when you get neither questions will be asked as you can't silence the doubters by pointing at trophies.

It's easy to blame the media or social media but I think most of us are grown up enough to not let that effect our feelings towards games and the enjoyment you get watching this team from an entertainment point of view is minimal.

There were times where I'd put off all sorts of things to make sure I could watch every Utd game but that has become less and less I've got mates who don't even bother watching it anymore and there are a lot of fans who have given up going.

He's had 2 full summers to build his team and set his standards and this will be his 3rd it's time to deliver his final product which is hopefully a side that can challenge for the title next season and also be more competitive in Europe. Next season 90 points in the league and CL quarter Final plus a domestic cup final has to be the minimum target we might not win anything but he's got to keep it going and silence the naysayers as you say. The only way he does that is on the pitch with performances that get the fans bouncing in the ground and on the way out Utd fans have always loved a moan but don't give them anything to moan about.
 
I get that JSP but the Sanchez scenario highlights everything about the current atmosphere to me. He’s come in hasn’t lit the place up but been motm in 3 important games and people slate him not because of his performances but because of the man that bought him.
 
And we saw at Arsenal how toxic that attitude from fans can make the place. I’m just bored of all the negative talk we’ve had our best season in 5 years and people still moan.
 
I get that JSP but the Sanchez scenario highlights everything about the current atmosphere to me. He’s come in hasn’t lit the place up but been motm in 3 important games and people slate him not because of his performances but because of the man that bought him.

And his wages and because of a certain resentment about how things ended at Arsenal (media rather than fans) and because he replaced our young stars who are popular with the fans.

Sanchez has been disappointing in a lot of games but his career really starts next season looked like a piece that didn’t quite fit in the last 6 months but the starting XI needs to be setup to get the best from him and everyone else.

I think so far the business done by the club/manager has to be questioned last summer they didn’t manage to clear the deadwood and so far the defensive signings haven’t really bore fruit. Two of his signings have already left even though Zlatan was surely a 1 season solution to a problem.
 
When people say that it’s his third season and he has to start delivering it feels that they are sharpening their knives to stick into him at the first poor game we have. It’s like people want him to fail so that they can have the satisfaction of saying I said so.
 
When people say that it’s his third season and he has to start delivering it feels that they are sharpening their knives to stick into him at the first poor game we have. It’s like people want him to fail so that they can have the satisfaction of saying I said so.

You live by the sword you die by the sword.

Mourinho is one of the highest paid managers in the world and the reason he gets that money and why fans will put up with all the nonsense that comes with him is he brings success. No league title in 3 years at Utd in modern football is not good enough and serious questions will be asked.

He is a marmite personality you either love him or hate him and I think people who used to love him now hate him but very few who hated him now love him. Let’s just say over time I think he’s become less likeable.
 
You live by the sword you die by the sword.

Mourinho is one of the highest paid managers in the world and the reason he gets that money and why fans will put up with all the nonsense that comes with him is he brings success. No league title in 3 years at Utd in modern football is not good enough and serious questions will be asked.

He is a marmite personality you either love him or hate him and I think people who used to love him now hate him but very few who hated him now love him. Let’s just say over time I think he’s become less likeable.
The league title will not be decided in the first few months of the new season. Most likely it will run till at least mid April. But here we seem to be waiting to declare him useless at the first available opportunity. It’s like you said he has become less likeable. But the fact that you don’t like his personality should not be a factor when judging his performance on the field.
 
Not judging his personality, just his tactics and play. Based on this season the title will be decided by Xmas. I hope it's not but let's see
 
Sharpe is spot on. Football was my escape from work, now work is my escape from football! Seriously though, winning trophies is good ‘n’ all but it’s about the journey. Finishing second or sixth is irrelevant if I’m not enjoying watching the team play. I don’t expect free flowing football week in week out, but it would be nice to be occasionally excited.

This basically!

I can see progress in terms of performing Mourinho's football and yes we finished 2nd and that's obviously better so yes progress there but there's been zero progression in the style of football and as i've said I think that's gone backwards from Mourinho's first season and that's my main gripe. I've said i'd give him next season and do hope things change but the grumbles will grow louder if it's the same dirge come winter.
 
The league title will not be decided in the first few months of the new season. Most likely it will run till at least mid April. But here we seem to be waiting to declare him useless at the first available opportunity. It’s like you said he has become less likeable. But the fact that you don’t like his personality should not be a factor when judging his performance on the field.

It does play a part because it effects how much I want to cheer the team and how much slack I’m prepared to give him when things are going wrong as I think he’s gone from being a cocky annoyance to a nasty bully making things personal as a defence mechanism when he’s up against it. I guess part of Mourinho is you just have to accept you are cheering on the bad guy and wanting him to win.

As I’ve said you can’t really argue with the results last season was a big improvement on year 1 but the performances and the way he decides to play makes me question if he can win the big titles playing this way cautious teams very rarely win leagues. I really really want him to prove me wrong and if he gets us playing like his best Chelsea sides then I think most will be happy but so far we don’t look like those sides and hopefully we see a more settled coherent team next season.
 
It does play a part because it effects how much I want to cheer the team and how much slack I’m prepared to give him when things are going wrong as I think he’s gone from being a cocky annoyance to a nasty bully making things personal as a defence mechanism when he’s up against it. I guess part of Mourinho is you just have to accept you are cheering on the bad guy and wanting him to win.

As I’ve said you can’t really argue with the results last season was a big improvement on year 1 but the performances and the way he decides to play makes me question if he can win the big titles playing this way cautious teams very rarely win leagues. I really really want him to prove me wrong and if he gets us playing like his best Chelsea sides then I think most will be happy but so far we don’t look like those sides and hopefully we see a more settled coherent team next season.
Regardless of the manager the fans should cheer on the club. We are supporters of the club not mourinho fan boys. So don’t you think we should be creating conditions that are conducive to the club succeeding? And if that means cheering the team on when things aren’t so peachy then so be it. It is our duty to do this. I am not asking for you all to blindly support mourinho and defend every mistake that he commits. He should be called out on his mistakes. Which has happened during his time here. But at least you don’t have to decide that he is a failure before the season has even begun.
 
I massively feel the fans are to blame currently. They don’t realise what their toxic attitude is causing either because they’re too busy with their heads up their behinds having a go at Jose and blindly abusing anything and everything they can about the club and then screaming about Jose ruining the club.
 
I can't believe the negativity on this United fan forum to be honest. It all seems a bit short sighted, and writing off a season and incoming players before they arrive is just daft.
 
Regardless of the manager the fans should cheer on the club. We are supporters of the club not mourinho fan boys. So don’t you think we should be creating conditions that are conducive to the club succeeding? And if that means cheering the team on when things aren’t so peachy then so be it. It is our duty to do this. I am not asking for you all to blindly support mourinho and defend every mistake that he commits. He should be called out on his mistakes. Which has happened during his time here. But at least you don’t have to decide that he is a failure before the season has even begun.

It really isn't our duty to do anything we aren't soldiers or employees if I go to games of course I get behind the team because that's my natural reaction on what to do but I can't help it if there's someone I don't particularly like in charge. I think it's a very chicken and egg and the fans at the ground have not turned on him in the way they did on LVG he's not faced the boo's or ridicule yet and I hope it doesn't get to that but if he can get his team ticking and get the fans reconnected to the team/club then it will change. There are certainly times when the fans could do more to lift the team but there's equally times where the team/manager could do with lifting the fans. They did that by winning at City but then the next game they let the bubble burst losing at home to West Brom. They win the semi final vs Spurs when Wembley was bouncing then coast through the remaining league games and we go into the cup final a little deflated again.

I've not called for him to be sacked, I've said I want him to get it right, I've just said I don't believe in it right now but that can change quickly that's the great thing about the emotion of being a football fan the actions of managers and players can change your opinion of them both in a good and a bad way.

Mourinho tends to try and go for an us against the world mentality within his team but it seems like so far that hasn't really worked because not all the players seem with him and the fan base are split on him and until a manager puts a league title in the cabinet post Ferguson then it's always going to be a tough job bit like the Romans we are a tough crowd to impress.
 
I think this is degenerating into pro v again Jose. I don't think anyone can believe we are actually playing good football. However we have Improved year on year albeit slowly, and I think Jose deserves the next 2 Windows to get it right. These are very important Windows for him which I believe could go either way
 
Well the nature of the original post was always going to end with it be a pro vs anti Jose discussion.

The calls for the manager to be sacked are almost non existant as far as I can tell but I can see why fans are struggling with it and it's not just down to this manager it's down to the last 3 managers over 5 years and what they've served up to us.

Everyone agrees we've moved forward we probably all agree it's not been as quick as we'd hoped but hopefully 1 more window he can get the squad right and put up a real fight next season. If he can get the momentum early on the fans will get behind them and he will need to keep that going by remaining positive.

Positivity spreads through a club just as quickly as negativity and Mourinho as a person can quickly become very negative and defensive of himself it's a natural reaction when you come under attack but he needs to try and keep that to a minimum next season and get positivity spreading through the entire club.
 
Well the nature of the original post was always going to end with it be a pro vs anti Jose discussion.

The calls for the manager to be sacked are almost non existant as far as I can tell but I can see why fans are struggling with it and it's not just down to this manager it's down to the last 3 managers over 5 years and what they've served up to us.

Everyone agrees we've moved forward we probably all agree it's not been as quick as we'd hoped but hopefully 1 more window he can get the squad right and put up a real fight next season. If he can get the momentum early on the fans will get behind them and he will need to keep that going by remaining positive.

Positivity spreads through a club just as quickly as negativity and Mourinho as a person can quickly become very negative and defensive of himself it's a natural reaction when you come under attack but he needs to try and keep that to a minimum next season and get positivity spreading through the entire club.

The nature and purpose of the original post was to burst the myth that Jose’s team have gone 1-0 ahead and held on to dear life as was suggested in the article. It was also to bring some positivity about the club. But the nature of things on forums and other social media platforms nowadays is we all take sides and start fighting.
 
The nature and purpose of the original post was to burst the myth that Jose’s team have gone 1-0 ahead and held on to dear life as was suggested in the article. It was also to bring some positivity about the club. But the nature of things on forums and other social media platforms nowadays is we all take sides and start fighting.

Isn't that the way it has always been you argue in the ground, in the pub before or after the game or at work. The only difference online is you're not doing it face to face since time began fans have disagreed on anything and everything from the manager to the quality of the pies at grounds. Everyone just has to accept not everyone wil agree with their position on something but you can't just ignore the other side.

You posted an article where an ex player gave his opinion, you countered that with yours then we've all had a bit of back and forth over it.
 
I think people can see things however they want .

Do I believe Jose will improve this team next year in terms of challenging and competing? Yeah I do. He did year one to two and I think he will year two to three.

But do I think his style will improve? No I don't. Do I think things are going to be more entertaining to watch? No I don't. And so for me that's why I want him to go.

I want my team to entertain me. I want to watch my team with pride again. I want to see good football and goals and that isn't going to happen. He has a very pragmatic approach that is successful. And when he wins things then generally people don't complain. But for me I want more than that. I don't care so much about winning things now. I want to actually start watching my team again. I want to enjoy games. Unfortunately football as a whole has gone this way and its a results business which is why I only follow results and reports for the most part instead of watching games.
 
this is where I differ, I fully believe the style will come. You can't play attacking football until you have a defence you can rely on.

And I am going out on one here, I don't enjoy watching city, it's boring. Liverpool are good to watch (a little vomit in the mouth) but they don't win enough
 

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