Scott McTominay | Match Discussion Thread 2023/24

SuperRash

SuperRash

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He could well be off this summer is we get a suitable offer but at the moment I think it’s more likely Fred goes.

We are not the biggest side so it’s good to have him in the squad for a bit of height and physicality. Would be happy for him to stay and remain part of the squad.
 
Unless Moyes comes in with a seriously good bid, I'd keep him. He's a decent enough squad player who pops up with a cracking performance every now and then.
 
Think it comes down to the player if a good offer comes in and he wants to go then let him go.
 
McTom for Scotland, I'd be well interested in that player.

Why can't our management get the performances from him that Scotland can?
 
Different types of football and a different standard is also a factor.

Scotland are a decent counter attacking side and McT has license to join these attacks whereas at Utd in the central midfield role he's expected to sit deep and create as well as protect the defence.

The performances for Scotland aren't far off what we often saw from him under Ole but as we've moved away from that style of football his potential to influence games has reduced.
 
Man Utd 1-3 Brighton

Typical McTominay performance to be honest doesn't get on the ball when we have it and doesn't offer much when we don't have it.
 
Once Amrabat and Mainoo are fit I don’t think he gets a look in to be honest.

This was a good chance to impress but he definitely didn’t take it. He’s a solid pro but not at the level we need. We’re not dominant enough to carry someone in midfield.
 
We love an easy target don't we .... even better still if they are an Academy grad ....

Top Red stuff.
 
Works both ways if he wasn't an academy player he'd be nowhere near Utd.

It is very hard to pinpoint what he's actually good at.
 
jsp said:
Works both ways if he wasn't an academy player he'd be nowhere near Utd.

It is very hard to pinpoint what he's actually good at.
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That's just guesswork.

There's enough evidence, how much do you need ffs
 
Justin Cider said:
That's just guesswork.

There's enough evidence, how much do you need ffs
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Yes it's guesswork but I don't think Utd would have signed this lad had he come through at Villa or another premier league club. I don't think he'd have made it through the system at the top sides again just an opinion and something I could never prove.

Had we paid £50m for him he'd be getting pelters if anything he gets it easy because the club haven't paid a fortune for him.

I dunno another 100 games of him doing sod all on the ball and giving away free kicks when trying to win it back might be enough to confirm that he's no better than other players in his position at clubs in the bottom half of the league.

In all seriousness.
He's quite good at carrying the ball in midfield when the game is end to end
He times his runs into the box quite well.
His passing both short and long is crap.
He can't take the ball on the turn so you can't give it to him in tight spaces.
He doesn't intercept the ball by reading the game
He doesn't really tackle to win the ball back just ends up fouling people and giving away free kicks.
He's alright in the air.
 
jsp said:
Yes it's guesswork but I don't think Utd would have signed this lad had he come through at Villa or another premier league club. I don't think he'd have made it through the system at the top sides again just an opinion and something I could never prove.

Had we paid £50m for him he'd be getting pelters if anything he gets it easy because the club haven't paid a fortune for him.

I dunno another 100 games of him doing sod all on the ball and giving away free kicks when trying to win it back might be enough to confirm that he's no better than other players in his position at clubs in the bottom half of the league.

In all seriousness.
He's quite good at carrying the ball in midfield when the game is end to end
He times his runs into the box quite well.
His passing both short and long is crap.
He can't take the ball on the turn so you can't give it to him in tight spaces.
He doesn't intercept the ball by reading the game
He doesn't really tackle to win the ball back just ends up fouling people and giving away free kicks.
He's alright in the air.
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Bloody hell nearly three compliments there, steady on you'll be winning my argument for me in a minute ....

Bryan Robson is by far the best most complete midfield player I've ever seen playing in England, yet I could list 4 or 5 things that he was piss-poor at, if I was that way inclined .....
 
nah, Robbo excelled at everything.

Best player united have ever had.
 
Justin Cider said:
Bloody hell nearly three compliments there, steady on you'll be winning my argument for me in a minute ....

Bryan Robson is by far the best most complete midfield player I've ever seen playing in England, yet I could list 4 or 5 things that he was piss-poor at, if I was that way inclined .....
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You haven't disagreed with any of my statements though, I'd actually be interested to hear what you think he's good at as you obviously quite like him.
 
jsp said:
You haven't disagreed with any of my statements though, I'd actually be interested to hear what you think he's good at as you obviously quite like him.
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I think he's good at the same things 5 consecutive Manchester United Managers did/do.

And If you need it explaining to you maybe football isn't for you.
 
SuperRash said:
Not that will hold up in any fan court! Interested to hear your thoughts on his attributes and whether the positives outweigh the very obvious negatives.
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Surely you should be asking that of the numerous Managers who keep picking him when he's fit .....

But in answer to your question, no I don't think his positives outweigh his negatives, i'm just defending him for giggles :rolleyes:

And the dumbest question of the month award goes to (drum role) ....
 
Justin Cider said:
I think he's good at the same things 5 consecutive Manchester United Managers did/do.

And If you need it explaining to you maybe football isn't for you.
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He played under Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and ETH. Is the 5th Carrick? I’m being generous giving you Rangnick as an interim not giving you a caretaker. We’ve had 3 full time managers since he came into the first team.

The only manager who had faith in him was Ole since Ten Hag came in he’s signed 3 centre mids and taken 2 on loan so that he doesn’t need to play McT and it was quite clear that this summer he was available.

I’m not asking you to go into minute detail just say what you think he’s good at. To me he’s Darron Gibson without the long range pile-drivers.
 
jsp said:
He played under Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and ETH. Is the 5th Carrick? I’m being generous giving you Rangnick as an interim not giving you a caretaker. We’ve had 3 full time managers since he came into the first team.

The only manager who had faith in him was Ole since Ten Hag came in he’s signed 3 centre mids and taken 2 on loan so that he doesn’t need to play McT and it was quite clear that this summer he was available.

I’m not asking you to go into minute detail just say what you think he’s good at. To me he’s Darron Gibson without the long range pile-drivers.
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Erik tell you that did he?

A blind person could have told you that we needed reinforcements(options) in midfield and with Fred being sold and the club desperately trying to move vd Beek on and fringe players from the Academy being moved on is the intake any big deal - basically everybody was available for sale, McTominay(of the midfielders not called Bruno)was most likely to bring in decent money, and that's why the press picked up on it.

Totally different player to Darron Gibson who was more of a schemer - in fact those two would compliment each other as a 6 and a 8.
 
Justin Cider said:
Erik tell you that did he?

A blind person could have told you that we needed reinforcements(options) in midfield and with Fred being sold and the club desperately trying to move vd Beek on and fringe players from the Academy being moved on is the intake any big deal - basically everybody was available for sale, McTominay(of the midfielders not called Bruno)was most likely to bring in decent money, and that's why the press picked up on it.

Totally different player to Darron Gibson who was more of a schemer - in fact those two would compliment each other as a 6 and a 8.
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Well you can read between the lines. McT started most weeks in the 2 seasons before he arrived and the first thing the new boss did was buy two new midfielders which to me said he didn't have much faith in Fred or McT. Within 5 games they were the established centre mid pairing then when one of them got injured in January he got another in on loan in Sabitzer.

You still haven't actually said what you feel he does well.

Of course all the players he doesn't think are good enough are for sale because he needs players to leave to create the space in his squad for new signings and the money to pay for them. Problem is no one wants to buy these players because they know they aren't that good and because they're at Utd they're on good wages and by the sound of things these players don't want to step down from a club like Utd.

I think they were both players who quite clearly weren't at the level required for Utd the difference is Gibson moved on quite quickly when he realised the chances weren't going to come.
 
jsp said:
Well you can read between the lines. McT started most weeks in the 2 seasons before he arrived and the first thing the new boss did was buy two new midfielders which to me said he didn't have much faith in Fred or McT. Within 5 games they were the established centre mid pairing then when one of them got injured in January he got another in on loan in Sabitzer.

You still haven't actually said what you feel he does well.

Of course all the players he doesn't think are good enough are for sale because he needs players to leave to create the space in his squad for new signings and the money to pay for them. Problem is no one wants to buy these players because they know they aren't that good and because they're at Utd they're on good wages and by the sound of things these players don't want to step down from a club like Utd.

I think they were both players who quite clearly weren't at the level required for Utd the difference is Gibson moved on quite quickly when he realised the chances weren't going to come.
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The first signing EtH made was Malacia, the third a left-footed CB, are we to read into that he doesn't rate Luke Shaw?

Yeah let's totally ignore the 5 or 6 midfielders that EtH moved on, he then brought in two 30+ year olds midfielders, then played them, what is this madness .....

:rolleyes: Check the archives(psst. little clue below)

Fred who until recent injuries was a nailed on starter for Brazil for two years, and McTominay the most inform goalscoring midfielder in Internationals world-wide are not good enough? Change the record mate it's boring, stick prime Robson, Ince or Kane in that midfield and they'd struggle, they get next to no help from behind or in front as Casemiro and Eriksen are finding out now - and why move on if you've already reached the very top in your profession.

I'll tell you when you're older why Gibson moved on.
 
Since ETH took over the club has sold Fred & Periera. Few youth team players were moved on Garner, Iqbal and Savage. Pogba rejected a new contract and left on a free.

Fred was probably sold because he had 1 year left on his contract and probably wanted a decent extension and pay rise. He was past 30 and it was the right time to cash in, wish him the best and move on.

Also, we are talking about club form not international form. McT having a bit of a purple patch for Scotland has nothing to do with 4 years of pretty unconvincing Utd performances.

Again still no summary of what you think he’s actually good at.

Why move on? Because you are in your prime, it’s a short career and your manager clearly doesn’t rate you enough to start you regularly. That is up to him if he wants to sit on his contract and be a big part player at Utd rather than start every week for another premier league side that’s up to him.

I suspect Gibson left because he enjoyed a drink and Fergie didn’t want players like that around. Wasn’t he one of the 3 who turned up to training drunk during the Christmas period which meant we had to play a weakened side and lost at home to Blackburn.
 
jsp said:
Since ETH took over the club has sold Fred & Periera. Few youth team players were moved on Garner, Iqbal and Savage. Pogba rejected a new contract and left on a free.

Fred was probably sold because he had 1 year left on his contract and probably wanted a decent extension and pay rise. He was past 30 and it was the right time to cash in, wish him the best and move on.

Also, we are talking about club form not international form. McT having a bit of a purple patch for Scotland has nothing to do with 4 years of pretty unconvincing Utd performances.

Again still no summary of what you think he’s actually good at.

Why move on? Because you are in your prime, it’s a short career and your manager clearly doesn’t rate you enough to start you regularly. That is up to him if he wants to sit on his contract and be a big part player at Utd rather than start every week for another premier league side that’s up to him.

I suspect Gibson left because he enjoyed a drink and Fergie didn’t want players like that around. Wasn’t he one of the 3 who turned up to training drunk during the Christmas period which meant we had to play a weakened side and lost at home to Blackburn.
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Apart from Casemiro last season for about 2/3 months name one other midfielder, just one, who has performed to an acceptable level in the last 4/5 years for United. There is no obvious connect between the defence and midfield, nor the midfield and attack, and that's not up to the midfielders in situ to resolve but the Managers who are paid an absolute fortune to sort it out.

Put Fred and McTom in a team where the keeper doesn't hide behind the posts, the left-back isn't positionally hopeless, the wingers both put a shift in both directions, and the strikers don't play for themselves and you might appreciate how good they actually are as footballers. But oh no you keep running with the crowd mate, far easier than looking for the real issues ....
 
Justin Cider said:
Apart from Casemiro last season for about 2/3 months name one other midfielder, just one, who has performed to an acceptable level in the last 4/5 years for United. There is no obvious connect between the defence and midfield, nor the midfield and attack, and that's not up to the midfielders in situ to resolve but the Managers who are paid an absolute fortune to sort it out.

Put Fred and McTom in a team where the keeper doesn't hide behind the posts, the left-back isn't positionally hopeless, the wingers both put a shift in both directions, and the strikers don't play for themselves and you might appreciate how good they actually are as footballers. But oh no you keep running with the crowd mate, far easier than looking for the real issues ....
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Just sounds like excuses trying to convince yourself that Fred and McT are anything better than what they have shown for us.

Not saying they are bad footballers at all but you need to have redeemable qualities to be in a top clubs midfield. A lot of clubs will play us and just sit and we have to unlock a tight defence. Neither Fred and McT have the passing or creative quality to do that. They are honest pros but nothing more. Only our shocking recruitment over the years has allowed them to play as much as they have for us.

Also the argument about their International football status or performances is a little moot. The quality of International teams on the whole are average at best. Also there is a distinct lack of intensity compared to the EPL. If you pitched a country like Israel for example against EPL clubs, I think most teams would wipe the floor with them.
 
I don't think McTom is the long term solution to our midfield. But he'd probably do a better job than Casemiro at the moment
 
Justin Cider said:
Apart from Casemiro last season for about 2/3 months name one other midfielder, just one, who has performed to an acceptable level in the last 4/5 years for United. There is no obvious connect between the defence and midfield, nor the midfield and attack, and that's not up to the midfielders in situ to resolve but the Managers who are paid an absolute fortune to sort it out.

Put Fred and McTom in a team where the keeper doesn't hide behind the posts, the left-back isn't positionally hopeless, the wingers both put a shift in both directions, and the strikers don't play for themselves and you might appreciate how good they actually are as footballers. But oh no you keep running with the crowd mate, far easier than looking for the real issues ....
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Well in the last 4-5 years in terms of players who've consistently played we've had Pogba, McTominay, Fred, Herrera, Casemiro and Eriksen. You could include Periera and Bruno but they're more number 10's than centre mids.

Herrara and Pogba both left and did absolutely diddly squat at their new clubs. In his time at the club Pogba had a few spells of a few months of good form but he'd often get injured and then take a lot of time to get back. Herrera was similar he often had good games in big matches but never consistently performed which is why the club were right not to offer him the silly wages he wanted.

Casemiro and Eriksen had a good thing going for a few months but after Eriksen got injured and Casemiro picked up his bans neither of them looked the same.

Haven't seen much of Fred since he left apart from a wonder goal which was then ruled out by VAR but I noticed he didn't make the most recent Brazil squad. The counter attack style of the previous manager probably suited him.

Utd have built a squad setup to counter attack under Ole over 3 summers they're now looking to undo that and build a squad capable of playing a possession style but they're obviously still missing a few pieces that can make that work.

I don't think that style will suit McTominay because I don't think he wants to be on the ball making 100 passes a game in the midfield he is more suited to playing in a counter attacking side which is what Scotland are and it's why I think he probably should have pushed for a move to West Ham.
 
SuperRash said:
Just sounds like excuses trying to convince yourself that Fred and McT are anything better than what they have shown for us.

Not saying they are bad footballers at all but you need to have redeemable qualities to be in a top clubs midfield. A lot of clubs will play us and just sit and we have to unlock a tight defence. Neither Fred and McT have the passing or creative quality to do that. They are honest pros but nothing more. Only our shocking recruitment over the years has allowed them to play as much as they have for us.

Also the argument about their International football status or performances is a little moot. The quality of International teams on the whole are average at best. Also there is a distinct lack of intensity compared to the EPL. If you pitched a country like Israel for example against EPL clubs, I think most teams would wipe the floor with them.
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Sure I posted over a year ago neither should be starting games for United but both are useful squad players - and that is still my stance.
 
jsp said:
Utd have built a squad setup to counter attack under Ole over 3 summers they're now looking to undo that and build a squad capable of playing a possession style but they're obviously still missing a few pieces that can make that work.

I don't think that style will suit McTominay because I don't think he wants to be on the ball making 100 passes a game in the midfield he is more suited to playing in a counter attacking side which is what Scotland are and it's why I think he probably should have pushed for a move to West Ham.
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That's possibly why he's being phased out from the starting XI, doesn't mean every time he plays and United don't win it's his fault though .....
 
Justin Cider said:
That's possibly why he's being phased out from the starting XI, doesn't mean every time he plays and United don't win it's his fault though .....
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It's why he's being phased out of the club because he doesn't fit what we need from players in his position.

I didn't say he was responsible for our defeats in general or what happened on Saturday, more that what we got from him was the typical stuff of him not being able to really influence the game because of the way we want to play.

I just think he's a limited player who we shouldn't be relying on and he needs to move to a club that's going to play to his strengths rather than expose his weaknesses.

The longer he stays at Utd the more doors will close to him and suddenly the mid table sides like Villa or West Ham won't be calling your agent it'll be the relegation battle sides like Everton or Championship clubs.
 
Came on as the number 10 tonight but was poor had two great chances in attacking areas to provide a killer pass or create but lost the ball both times.
 

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