Ruben Amorim

Who are the 5?

However we had already started signing players from Holland.

ETH fault we signed DVDB?
Martinez
Antony
Onana
Mazraoui
De Ligt

Clutching at straws now, yep we have bought Dutch players in the past, but never so many over so short a time.
IT's almost as if ETH convinced himself ( and the board) that the players who brought him success at Ajax would do the same here
 
The point I was making was Fergie has never criticised the Glazers in fact he had a go at the fans years ago for hating them even though they`ve been a disaster for the club.
I've never known Ferguson criticise anyone with anything to do with United in public, behind closed doors is a different matter.
You also have to read between the lines on his last few years when he was bringing in players like RVP, getting Scholes out of retirement, and saying there is "no value in the market" some read that as there being no money, simply because as a PLC United got the players they wanted, no matter what the cost.
 
I've never known Ferguson criticise anyone with anything to do with United in public, behind closed doors is a different matter.
You also have to read between the lines on his last few years when he was bringing in players like RVP, getting Scholes out of retirement, and saying there is "no value in the market" some read that as there being no money, simply because as a PLC United got the players they wanted, no matter what the cost.
Its not just anything though is it? the Glazers are the biggest disaster the club has ever had and it speaks volumes that he`s not uttered a word against them, and Fergie could be very vocal when he felt the need. The Rock of Gibraltar episode was settled out of court with both parties agreeing not to speak about it in public which will have suited Fergie.
 
Its not just anything though is it? the Glazers are the biggest disaster the club has ever had and it speaks volumes that he`s not uttered a word against them, and Fergie could be very vocal when he felt the need. The Rock of Gibraltar episode was settled out of court with both parties agreeing not to speak about it in public which will have suited Fergie.
I leave you to put two and two together over that.
All I will say is that at the time Malcolm Glazer was a very minority shareholder, not even on the board, Ferguson wanted Magnus and Magnier off the board.
Now do the rest.
 
I leave you to put two and two together over that.
All I will say is that at the time Malcolm Glazer was a very minority shareholder, not even on the board, Ferguson wanted Magnus and Magnier off the board.
Now do the rest.
It allowed the Glazers to get a foot in maybe it was spite from Magnier? because that C*** Malcom Glazer was watching the situation and it would have been known to Magnier, Fergie was a great manager but he didnt get everything right.
 
As an American fan for several years now, Amorim is the first manager I feel that can get us back towards the top of things. May call me crazy as it has not exactly been top gravy so far haha, but I think the guy has all the tools if we give him time.

Being a teacher I am aggravated easily! MU needs to start helping be a stress reliever, not adding to it!
 
As an American fan for several years now, Amorim is the first manager I feel that can get us back towards the top of things. May call me crazy as it has not exactly been top gravy so far haha, but I think the guy has all the tools if we give him time.

Being a teacher I am aggravated easily! MU needs to start helping be a stress reliever, not adding to it!
Welcome one thing is for sure we`ve got many problems but we cant keep changing the manager, this group of players are not going to win us anything and its going to take a lot of time to put it right.
 
Martinez
Antony
Onana
Mazraoui
De Ligt

Clutching at straws now, yep we have bought Dutch players in the past, but never so many over so short a time.
IT's almost as if ETH convinced himself ( and the board) that the players who brought him success at Ajax would do the same here
3 of the 5 are good signings. Some would argue 4. (I most certainly wouldn't!)

But no. If ETH wanted to harp back to his Ajax days he'd have played Donny.

He wasn't in charge of signings. Same way Amorim isn't and why I wouldn't judge him on them. Same way Ole wasn't. Fergie was the last manager who had true authority over who was signed.
 
Welcome one thing is for sure we`ve got many problems but we cant keep changing the manager, this group of players are not going to win us anything and its going to take a lot of time to put it right.
100% agree with this. Just a shame we fecked off 4 good managers to get to this point.

We have just been outplayed by Everton and Moyes ffs.
 
3 of the 5 are good signings. Some would argue 4. (I most certainly wouldn't!)

But no. If ETH wanted to harp back to his Ajax days he'd have played Donny.

He wasn't in charge of signings. Same way Amorim isn't and why I wouldn't judge him on them. Same way Ole wasn't. Fergie was the last manager who had true authority over who was signed.
As Antony has been fecked off on loan, that must mean Onana is considered a good signing!

Out of those 5, I'd say only Maritinez shows any quality, and he's injury prone.
 
He wasn't in charge of signings.
I can't believe you actually believe that.

Those 5 listed, plus Sabitzer, Eriksen, Amrabat all played for him.

Malacia, weggy, Zirkzee all Dutch.

But it's a massive coincidence.

He also spoke in the press about how much he wanted Mount.

We worked so hard to get this done. I think so many clubs were looking out for Mason, to sign him, and we succeeded. We are happy with that, he brings something in the midfield department.

Hojlund

Hence, the Dutchman pushed aggressively for the club to go after the 20-year-old and seal the deal, according to The Athletic.


Of course he was involved in the signings.
 
I can't believe you actually believe that.

Those 5 listed, plus Sabitzer, Eriksen, Amrabat all played for him.

Malacia, weggy, Zirkzee all Dutch.

But it's a massive coincidence.

He also spoke in the press about how much he wanted Mount.

We worked so hard to get this done. I think so many clubs were looking out for Mason, to sign him, and we succeeded. We are happy with that, he brings something in the midfield department.

Hojlund

Hence, the Dutchman pushed aggressively for the club to go after the 20-year-old and seal the deal, according to The Athletic.


Of course he was involved in the signings.
Thinking out loud, I think @IDFD has dug such a deep hole for himself in his unwavering some might say misguided support for ETH, there isn't a ladder long enough for him to get out of the hole.
 
Thinking out loud, I think @IDFD has dug such a deep hole for himself in his unwavering some might say misguided support for ETH, there isn't a ladder long enough for him to get out of the hole.
I think fundamentally it's the opposite way around. I'm the only one that can judge this shit for how it is because I didn't hound out the previous managers. I had unwavering support for ETH Ole Mourinho. My stance never changed. Our fans are the biggest issue.

And now those same fans can't call this shit out for how bad it is because they know it's on them.
 
As Antony has been fecked off on loan, that must mean Onana is considered a good signing!

Out of those 5, I'd say only Maritinez shows any quality, and he's injury prone.
For me De Ligt and Maz can't be judged but so far have looked decent. And Martinez. Antony without a doubt a flop and for me Onana too. But like the above those that wanted De Gea gone and defended it have to pretend it's a good signing. Hence saying for some.
 
Again the percentages argument is worthless in my opinion. Nothing you say convinces me otherwise.

ETH may have had a better win percentage but that first season he was riding off Rashford’s anomaly season where everything he touched turned to gold. Sadly Amorim doesn’t have such player who can do anything like that - he had Rashford but he had downed tools long before Amorim came along. Casemiro could run in that first ETH season and he added that stability and experience in the middle of the park.

I don’t think anyone is saying this run of form isn’t disastrous but again mitigating factors are causing it in my opinion. Amorim has inherited a very poor squad as a collective. Still got some good individuals but there is no cohesion or stand out quality in the squad. Bruno is our closest to a world class player.
We are in relegation form under Amorim. I believe it's now less than a point a game. The excuses you make can be made. But are we really worse than the West Ham side. Are we worse than the Everton side? Since Amorim took over we are 17th in the league. Really think this lot of players would be anywhere near that with Ole in charge? Is it a poor squad? Perhaps. (I disagree) is it a 17th in the league squad? You're having a laugh.

You can't keep making excuses for this rubbish. At this point it's on the manager. He's had enough time with them we should be seeing improvements but with each game it's getting worse.

The fact ETH got Rashford performing wasn't a coincidence. It isn't difficult to get Rashford performing. You just sit in and play in the counter. But when both Ole and ETH did it the fans moan it's not the way to play. That's when results faltered.

You realise it's on the manager to create the cohesion? And if there is no cohesion its on him?

For me anyone saying win percentage doesn't matter is having a laugh. Football is about results first. And fundamentally if we can't get wins he isnt doing good enough. All the excuses in the world aren't enough when you are sitting at a 26.6% win rate.

Just how poor is this side?

Onana - I think he's woeful. But you actually like him.
Dalot - Was probably the best right back in the league last season and we told Madrid we wanted £50m when they came in for him.
Maguire - Walks in to every side outside of the top 6.
Martinez - See above.
Dorgu - Too early to tell but you lot seem to think he's amazing.
Mainoo - Young and struggling since the managerial change but was exceptionally last season and isn't a team in the country that wouldn't sign him.
Ugarte - We paid £60m for him in the summer and everyone agreed it was a good signing (though I was one of the few that questioned his passing).
Garnacho - One of the hottest young prospects in football has the ability to score with either foot and again every side in the country would love to have him. We turned down £50m in January.
Bruno - Words aren't needed. Probably the second best player in the league.
Amad - We paid a lot of money for him as a youngster and now it's finally coming to fruition thanks to the management of him last season.
Hojlund - Needs to kick on but hasn't really done anything.

The squad is far better than those around us. The manager should be getting more out of them. It isn't a very poor side. It's a decent side that should be comfortable top half.
 
The squad is an 8th position squad at best, because that's where the manager who compiled the squad got them to.
It looked like it was heading for a worse finish, hence his sacking.

There are two ways to look at this:

There isn't much difference between 8th and 17th, you end up the same. Therefore the squad needs an overhaul again. Bring in a manager with a new system, rough out the season and bring in the players he needs and hope his first full season is better.
The problem with this, is there is no money, so we have to sell our best players to fund it. Which isn't going to go down well. Unless it works, and currently it seems a long stretch.

Ineos seem to have made a real mess of this

The second option is to do as we have been doing, bring in a manager and hope the problem was the last manager and not the players.

Amorim is under huge pressure, because not only is this not good enough, he's not got anything in the bank really so he needs a really good start next season.

With no money that seems unlikely.

I figure his time will be up and we'll get in another guy and just trudge along trying to get top 4 but never really be good enough
 
Whatever way you look at it the signings over the last 3 seasons haven't worked out, very few of them have improved the squad.

Onana - not great
Martinez - to many injuries
De Ligt - looks ok.
Yoro - to early to really say but I don't think he looks anywhere near ready yet.
Maz - looks ok but we've changed the system that means his favoured position no longer exists.
Malacia - looks like he's being sold as his favoured position no longer exists.
Casemiro - We got 1 good year out of a guy on a 4 year massive money contract.
Eriksen - We got a good 6 months out of a guy on a 3 year deal.
Ugarte - looks ok.
Mount - ok player but never fit.
Antony - ok first season but it's absolutely nose dived from there.
Zirkzee - still not really sure what he really does that's actually useful
Hojlund - ok first season but hasn't kicked on.

That's 13 players we signed (think that's all of them) and there's probably 8 who don't really have a future at the club and I don't think any of them have been so good that you think their position in the team is totally nailed down.

ETH isn't 100% responsible for that but that's the mess INEOS have got to fix and to be fair I'd say the signings that have come in so far under their watched have looked better but we've seen lots of players have positive starts then fall off.

Rebuilding the squad under Amorim will be another very expensive operation but unlike previous attempts this one will have to be done on a budget that is a lot more tightly controlled.
 
Amorim has brought in one player, Dorgu, who it seems has settled and when played is rated highly, that should give anyone confidence that given time and the right transfers Amorim can turn this around.
 
Amorim has brought in one player, Dorgu, who it seems has settled and when played is rated highly, that should give anyone confidence that given time and the right transfers Amorim can turn this around.
Sshhh that kind of sensible thinking doesn’t wash around here! :cool:
 
Dorgu looks the part so far, a lot of players can’t get into the PL but he looks like he’s tough enough and quick enough.
 
They got a bank loan to buy the club, that they haven't paid back and the club pays the interest. And they now have a 3.5b asset.
How is the club worth less than 0 investment they put in.

That was the dad. The kids are trust fund idiots who only know how to be greedy. Glazer senior knew how to be both greedy and opportunistic.
 
That was the dad. The kids are trust fund idiots who only know how to be greedy. Glazer senior knew how to be both greedy and opportunistic.
I find this slightly amusing, one of the reasons Glazer bought United was to continue to feather his own nest, because he had invested heavily in shopping malls, which he bought out on the cheap, only then to realise that a thing called "Internet Shopping" was taking off in America, and shops in malls were closing as fast as leaves fall in Autumn.
 
I find this slightly amusing, one of the reasons Glazer bought United was to continue to feather his own nest, because he had invested heavily in shopping malls, which he bought out on the cheap, only then to realise that a thing called "Internet Shopping" was taking off in America, and shops in malls were closing as fast as leaves fall in Autumn.
Well I never said he was a genius. Most American capitalists are just ruthless people who got lucky with a good idea or a golden opportunity at the right time. Bill Gates is the perfect example.
 
Well I never said he was a genius. Most American capitalists are just ruthless people who got lucky with a good idea or a golden opportunity at the right time. Bill Gates is the perfect example.
Malcolm Glazer was no Bill Gates, he was no fool either, there's plenty out there about him, United were not the first company he gained using the leveraged buyout model, to think he started out be selling watches door to door.
 
4 out of the 6 teams in the early EPL kick offs playing with 3 at the back. Looks like Amorim has begun a trend! :cool:
 
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Self deprecating, not a good sign, he's good enough, it's the shit signings he's inherited that's letting him down.
 
I think as the manager and being the main person we see and hear from at the club he needs to maintain his own positivity the moment people get a sniff that he's lost hope it's game over for him.
 
Here’s the striking thing for me… I keep hearing that United are underperforming and so much out there about “what’s wrong with United”. I still think that the media are looking at it wrong. They aren’t asking so much what is wrong with West Ham or Fulham? They aren’t asking what’s wrong with Wolves really. That’s where United are at. That is the level United are at based on the ability in their team.
 
Here’s the striking thing for me… I keep hearing that United are underperforming and so much out there about “what’s wrong with United”. I still think that the media are looking at it wrong. They aren’t asking so much what is wrong with West Ham or Fulham? They aren’t asking what’s wrong with Wolves really. That’s where United are at. That is the level United are at based on the ability in their team.
Any news about United sells papers and these days generates clicks, it's not just about us as fans want to read the diatribe pushed out by these hacks, all the ABU's out there do as well.
It's always been the case for as long as I can remember (and that's a long time)
 
He’s awful at press conferences, isn’t he? From the downright bizarre of “we could get relegated” to the now self depreciating, he needs PR training desperately. It never really makes for a good read once he’s spoken.

Biggest month of his career ahead and he’s basically saying “well, lads, I am trying”. Where do we find these blokes?
 
He’s awful at press conferences, isn’t he? From the downright bizarre of “we could get relegated” to the now self depreciating, he needs PR training desperately. It never really makes for a good read once he’s spoken.

Biggest month of his career ahead and he’s basically saying “well, lads, I am trying”. Where do we find these blokes?
My impression is that he is trying to do a Ferguson and take all the flak, instead of allowing it to land on the players
 

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