Ruben Amorim

jsp said:
Personally I think he’s got a handshake deal done with the glazers to buy them out in the next 2 years.

I think his plan was to get in make loads of unpopular decisions while the glazer name is still attached. Rampant cost cutting alongside aggressive price increases to try and return the club to at least breaking even maybe even a small profit.

He then buys them out and can basically say all that was necessary because of them and they take the blame for it.

When he goes to the banks for the stadium money I think he needs to be able to show a much healthier business than the one he’s walked into.
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I was talking to my son tonight, another full on United supporter and he came up with a theory that goes beyond all conspiracy theories.
He pretty much says the same,
The easiest way to devalue a football is relegation, even United, he says that would kick start the Glazers into a sale, they can't afford to see United's share value drop much more.
INEOS then get United for a cut price, pump money into the club, pay off the debt.
It sort of makes sense with what is happening, I'm not sure the fan base would go for it though.
 
Matt Varnish said:
I was talking to my son tonight, another full on United supporter and he came up with a theory that goes beyond all conspiracy theories.
He pretty much says the same,
The easiest way to devalue a football is relegation, even United, he says that would kick start the Glazers into a sale, they can't afford to see United's share value drop much more.
INEOS then get United for a cut price, pump money into the club, pay off the debt.
It sort of makes sense with what is happening, I'm not sure the fan base would go for it though.
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It's like one of those horror movies where they stop someone's heart to get rid of a supernatural parasite then restart it again when the parasite has jumped into another host.
 
Matt Varnish said:
I was talking to my son tonight, another full on United supporter and he came up with a theory that goes beyond all conspiracy theories.
He pretty much says the same,
The easiest way to devalue a football is relegation, even United, he says that would kick start the Glazers into a sale, they can't afford to see United's share value drop much more.
INEOS then get United for a cut price, pump money into the club, pay off the debt.
It sort of makes sense with what is happening, I'm not sure the fan base would go for it though.
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I think it’s a nice conspiracy theory but that’s all it is. It is absolute lunacy and if that was really the plan why appoint Amorim? Why appoint Ashworth? Why buy Dorgu and various other players in the summer?

Far too many people are risking their professional reputations to make this happen.

You are risking sending it off the cliff edge there’s potentially no way back from that.

If the Glazers had any inclination that he was doing this on purpose they’d have step in rights to take operational control back.

When you step back and think about it sensibly it just isn’t true.
 
jsp said:
When you step back and think about it sensibly it just isn’t true.
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No of course it's ridiculous.

But it's less ridiculous to suggest that short term INEOS don't have as much to lose as the Glazers if it happens. And the Glazers have given up control of the club so they can't do much about it. All they can do is sell, and that has to be to INEOS for the time being. But that's a pretty short window till they can sell to whoever they like, so it would be a very unwise gamble by SJR.

No the current relegation flirtation is born of years of incompetence and greed, not a few weeks.
 
tripleglazed said:
No of course it's ridiculous.

But it's less ridiculous to suggest that short term INEOS don't have as much to lose as the Glazers if it happens. And the Glazers have given up control of the club so they can't do much about it. All they can do is sell, and that has to be to INEOS for the time being. But that's a pretty short window till they can sell to whoever they like, so it would be a very unwise gamble by SJR.

No the current relegation flirtation is born of years of incompetence and greed, not a few weeks.
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You could also say they have seen an opportunity and have decided to grab it
 
whatever you think of the Glazers, they are no mugs where business is concerned, they would not get ripped off that easily.
 
IDFD said:
www.statmuse.com

Highest Win Percentage Manchester United Manager | StatMuse

Alex Ferguson has the highest winning percentage by a Man United manager in the Premier League, winning 65.2 percent of the time.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com

Just in case you all really don't get how bad it is and realising the Europa League is bailing out his overall win percentage.

He's gotta win 13 of his next 20 to match Moyes. Can't see that happening.

By now you'd have expected to see some sort of improvement. New manager bounce lasted 1 game.
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Meh stats can only tell you so much and usually just paint a very standard picture but there are so many more variables. Win percentages are a bit of a nonsense in the context of this argument.

Look at the relative strengths of the squads at managers disposal. Moyes especially inherited a squad full of world class talent and on the back of a title win. Granted some of those guys were coming to the back end of their careers but still a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

Then you look at Amorim’s squad which is so average and the worst we have seen since Sir Alex left. That is down to very poor recruitment and not identifying the right sort of players.
 
Mr C said:
whatever you think of the Glazers, they are no mugs where business is concerned, they would not get ripped off that easily.
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I would argue the Glazers kids are very bad at business and have managed to devalue their asset through greed and incompetence to the point where it is worth far less than it was. They have killed the golden goose.
 
Mr C said:
whatever you think of the Glazers, they are no mugs where business is concerned, they would not get ripped off that easily.
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They certainly made the United owners look like mugs and that includes Fergie who`s usually outspoken but didnt stand in their way.
 
tripleglazed said:
I would argue the Glazers kids are very bad at business and have managed to devalue their asset through greed and incompetence to the point where it is worth far less than it was. They have killed the golden goose.
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They got a bank loan to buy the club, that they haven't paid back and the club pays the interest. And they now have a 3.5b asset.
How is the club worth less than 0 investment they put in.
 
Mr C said:
They got a bank loan to buy the club, that they haven't paid back and the club pays the interest. And they now have a 3.5b asset.
How is the club worth less than 0 investment they put in.
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The year to date return on the shares has fallen to -16.6% on a one year investment the forecast is a 9.5% loss, a five year return is estimated at a whopping 22.75% loss.
The closing share price for this weekend was $14.56, I was paid $12 for my shares when the takeover happened, if you take into account inflation, the club (on paper) is not worth as much as when the Glazers bought it.
If you were to sell the club, and had to pay off the debt, you would probably have earned more by investing the money you borrowed across the NYSE, it is fair to say, United are not the asset, value wise, that they bought.
IF they were to sell the club, and it's a big IF, I can see it only being done on a Jaguar/Red Bull scenario, whereby INEOS pay a nominal sum, but take on the club debt, the issue with that is, that INEOS are not doing that well either.
 
SuperRash said:
Then you look at Amorim’s squad which is so average and the worst we have seen since Sir Alex left. That is down to very poor recruitment and not identifying the right sort of players.
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He's got the second worst win percentage in the league of any Man Utd manager ever.

It's the same squad ETH had double the win percentage with. You can keep playing it down but it's been an absolute disaster.

4 games. 15 wins. Let's keep pretending it's not disastrous.
 
IDFD said:
He's got the second worst win percentage in the league of any Man Utd manager ever.

It's the same squad ETH had double the win percentage with. You can keep playing it down but it's been an absolute disaster.

4 games. 15 wins. Let's keep pretending it's not disastrous.
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Again the percentages argument is worthless in my opinion. Nothing you say convinces me otherwise.

ETH may have had a better win percentage but that first season he was riding off Rashford’s anomaly season where everything he touched turned to gold. Sadly Amorim doesn’t have such player who can do anything like that - he had Rashford but he had downed tools long before Amorim came along. Casemiro could run in that first ETH season and he added that stability and experience in the middle of the park.

I don’t think anyone is saying this run of form isn’t disastrous but again mitigating factors are causing it in my opinion. Amorim has inherited a very poor squad as a collective. Still got some good individuals but there is no cohesion or stand out quality in the squad. Bruno is our closest to a world class player.
 
JammyRed said:
The horse that Fergie thought he had part ownership but didn’t, that went well.
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He had part ownership, the dispute was over whether he had stud rights or not, he claimed he did, it got Magnus and Magnier well annoyed, they were big shareholders, they said they would have their day, they did, they sold out to Malcolm Glazer.
 
I hate this win % Vs ETH nonsense. The guy spent 600m on this pile of shit squad.

Happy for for people to pop at Amorim, but any comparison against ETH is absolute nonsense.

Varane coming out about how shit a manager he was now

ETH is massive part of the problem of why we are so shit now. And why we will continue to be shit. Because he emptied the bank on these losers
 
Matt Varnish said:
The year to date return on the shares has fallen to -16.6% on a one year investment the forecast is a 9.5% loss, a five year return is estimated at a whopping 22.75% loss.
The closing share price for this weekend was $14.56, I was paid $12 for my shares when the takeover happened, if you take into account inflation, the club (on paper) is not worth as much as when the Glazers bought it.
If you were to sell the club, and had to pay off the debt, you would probably have earned more by investing the money you borrowed across the NYSE, it is fair to say, United are not the asset, value wise, that they bought.
IF they were to sell the club, and it's a big IF, I can see it only being done on a Jaguar/Red Bull scenario, whereby INEOS pay a nominal sum, but take on the club debt, the issue with that is, that INEOS are not doing that well either.
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That's conflating two issues

It assumes they give an S about the club.

They don't

They have invested 0 money, and will walk away very rich men. This makes them good business men. They will not fall for INEOS getting them relegated and buying on the cheap. Which was the point I was answering, they are too savvy.

Have they protected their business and future proofed it, absolutely not.

Have they made a shed load of money, absolutely.
 
I’d be interested to know the exact breakdown of the £600m figure. Is the figure the up front payment or the full transfer fees including add ons. I suspect £600m is a headline figure and the actual figure isn’t remotely close to that due to underperforming players failing to meet the add on criteria’s.
 
Mr C said:
That's conflating two issues

It assumes they give an S about the club.

They don't

They have invested 0 money, and will walk away very rich men. This makes them good business men. They will not fall for INEOS getting them relegated and buying on the cheap. Which was the point I was answering, they are too savvy.

Have they protected their business and future proofed it, absolutely not.

Have they made a shed load of money, absolutely.
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You are missing the point though.
Any sale of the club has to include paying off the debt or transferring it to the new owners, the fake Sheikh, said he would buy the club AND pay off the debt, which would have meant the Glazers walking away with a massive paycheque.
I don't believe INEOS have the means to buy the club outright, and pay off the debt, it is a burden we are saddled with for a long time to come.
 
Mr C said:
ETH is massive part of the problem of why we are so shit now. And why we will continue to be shit. Because he emptied the bank on these losers
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Nonsense. He wasn't in charge of signings same way Amorim isn't.

However Amorims system is the reason for our problems and yesterday highlighted it. The game changed the minute we got a winger on the pitch and stretched the game.
 
Ha, we just happened to keep signing his ex players.

I'm happy to discuss my thoughts on Amorim, but not in comparison to worst manager I have seen at the club, until a money spent and length of time are equal.

But I do have have opinions on Amorim
 
Mr C said:
I'm happy to discuss my thoughts on Amorim, but not in comparison to worst manager I have seen at the club, until a money spent and length of time are equal
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Not happy to discuss Amorim vs Amorim?

Amorim doesn't deserve to be spoken in the same breath as ETH yet. He's been woefully bad whilst ETH has the third highest win percentage and won two trophies.
 
Mr C said:
The debt is 1b the club is 4b. They still walk away with 3b
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The club is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, the Glazers set a price.
Only two serious offers came forward, of those only one was real.
Deduce from that what you want, I deduced that the majority of people didn't think the club was worth the price tag the Glazers put on it
 
IDFD said:
Not happy to discuss Amorim vs Amorim?

Amorim doesn't deserve to be spoken in the same breath as ETH yet. He's been woefully bad whilst ETH has the third highest win percentage and won two trophies.
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Fergusons win percentage in his first 30 games was 35%.
We stood by him, and from what I remember he did pretty well in the long run
 
IDFD said:
Nonsense. He wasn't in charge of signings same way Amorim isn't.

However Amorims system is the reason for our problems and yesterday highlighted it. The game changed the minute we got a winger on the pitch and stretched the game.
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So it's pure coincidence that during his tenure we signed 5 ex Ajax players, that's practically half the team.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Fergusons win percentage in his first 30 games was 35%.
We stood by him, and from what I remember he did pretty well in the long run
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Was that his league win percentage?

I'd love Amorim to turn it round. I just see nothing to even give a glimmer of hope. And you can ask anyone I've never wanted a manager gone. I just don't like this system.

Yesterday really did highlight the issue. This formation doesn't work.
 
Matt Varnish said:
So it's pure coincidence that during his tenure we signed 5 ex Ajax players, that's practically half the team.
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Who are the 5?

However we had already started signing players from Holland.

ETH fault we signed DVDB?
 
IDFD said:
Was that his league win percentage?

I'd love Amorim to turn it round. I just see nothing to even give a glimmer of hope. And you can ask anyone I've never wanted a manager gone. I just don't like this system.

Yesterday really did highlight the issue. This formation doesn't work.
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All games were included, I seem to remember he had a baptism of fire following Atkinson, there was a culture at the club he didn't like, Atkinson had let things go, he was a champagne charlie, rarely attended training, even had a sunbed in his office at "The Cliff" Clayton Blackmore used it so much his nickname was "Sun bed"
Believe it or not Bryan Robson was the ring leader of the drink culture.
The story goes that when Gordon Strachan heard Ferguson was on his way he warned the dressing room about what they were in for and literally packed his bags !
 
Matt Varnish said:
He had part ownership, the dispute was over whether he had stud rights or not, he claimed he did, it got Magnus and Magnier well annoyed, they were big shareholders, they said they would have their day, they did, they sold out to Malcolm Glazer.
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The point I was making was Fergie has never criticised the Glazers in fact he had a go at the fans years ago for hating them even though they`ve been a disaster for the club.
 

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