Protest at OT - May 2nd

jsp

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Forbes Highest Paid Athletes List

Messi made $97m (69.04£) on the pitch last year. Don't know how much of that is wages, but at 1.33m£/week, I don't care how good you are, that's your problem in a nutshell.

This is laregely the point I've tried to make clubs have put this financial pressure upon themselves by agreeing to these crazy contracts.

Barcelona are the main problem as well they not only pay that to Messi but they also stupidly spent huge money on Dembele/Coutinho after the Neymar deal which just reinforced the massive increase in transfer fees which was not sustainable.

Players/Clubs will always benchmark deals against the top prices paid which has caused a crazy inflation in transfer fees/wages over the last 5 years since Neymar went to PSG. When that happened the clubs should have all been getting together and saying guys this has to stop now otherwise we will all be bankrupt within 10 years. Covid accelerated this reality but football finally has to accept a recession is hitting them.
 

Mr C

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I don't see how that works.

The biggest barrier is getting players to drop their stupid wage demands, why united are looking at upping Bruno's wages when he is one year into a contract god only knows. No one needs to earn 300 grand a week, I'm sorry it's obscene. Thats probably 10 years salary for nurse, think about it. 1 week kicking a ball = 10 years of 50 - 60 hours a week saving peoples lives.

Players fee's dropping I don't see helps much. That's kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Football finance is one massive shell game, where people move money around from one column to another. When renewing Jones's contract can be seen as financially sound decision because they can use the asset value to meet EBITDA obligations, it doesn't take much for it to go wrong. COVID is the excuse, but football has been eating itself for a while now. They kept spending and spending and when that well has dried ever so slightly, they're in crisis. Football doesn't need more cash to be injected, it needs to stop spending like there's no tomorrow.

Barca is the chief culprit in my opinion for the way they threw stupid money around after the Neymar sale. They set a bar that was never going to be sustainable, and now mediocre players are going for 40m and expecting 100k/week.
 

jsp

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I don't see how that works.

The biggest barrier is getting players to drop their stupid wage demands, why united are looking at upping Bruno's wages when he is one year into a contract god only knows. No one needs to earn 300 grand a week, I'm sorry it's obscene. Thats probably 10 years salary for nurse, think about it. 1 week kicking a ball = 10 years of 50 - 60 hours a week saving peoples lives.

Players fee's dropping I don't see helps much. That's kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No the biggest barrier is clubs accepting these demands as I keep saying there's this wonderful word in business called NO if I go to my boss tomorrow and ask for a pay rise and he says NO there's little I can do. This exists in football these players sign contracts and there's no real pressure on clubs to up your wages and if you ask for a rise they ask for an extension on the deal.

Sometimes they come to you and offer a rise to protect your value as an asset the longer your contract the higher your potential transfer fee. You simply have to learn to say no to these people City said no to Sanchez when he asked them for £500k a week but Utd said yes so he got it if Utd and everyone else also say no then he probably reduces his demands.

The issue I see in football is that eventually one idiot says yes when you try and ask for silly wages. We then saw the knock on effect of this when every players suddenly starts asking for higher wages because of how much your top earner earns.

Football clubs generally speaking are poorly run businesses because they are not businesses they are not judged by their financial record but their record on the pitch
 

jsp

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Big police presence tonight and they were able to get the Liverpool team bus through fan blockades.
 

jsp

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One of the major shareholders has expressed his disappointment at the damage caused to the clubs image by our owners over the last month.

The investors hold 7% of the club shares.
 

jsp

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What is important is that we remain united against the owners we don’t start turning against those who are anti Glazer but still want to go to the games. We simply can’t afford to turn on each other the moment that happens they win.

Everyone’s got a different way of expressing their anger and for some going to the match is more important than anything and those people should be respected.
 

Mr C

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You can also be anti glazer, like me, but don't really see a better viable opton. So getting them to change is my way forward.

New billionare owners will be the same, floating all the shares, we did this, it wasn't liked and we don't know who is buying them for what gain, or the Saudi's.

I also see people saying they want the Glazers out while still expressing the views on what transfers they should do. If an owner is being ousted, he's highly unlikely to invest money in the team. Sorry, but if you want them out, don't bang on about transfers, the two ways of thinking don't compute.
 

jsp

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You can also be anti glazer, like me, but don't really see a better viable opton. So getting them to change is my way forward.

New billionare owners will be the same, floating all the shares, we did this, it wasn't liked and we don't know who is buying them for what gain, or the Saudi's.

I also see people saying they want the Glazers out while still expressing the views on what transfers they should do. If an owner is being ousted, he's highly unlikely to invest money in the team. Sorry, but if you want them out, don't bang on about transfers, the two ways of thinking don't compute.

The point I guess is have a conversation not an argument over this topic for it to work people need to remain together behind the one issue and not get divided into smaller groups. The match going fans need to work with the online fans we've seen how much disruption can be caused by online fans to sponsors and that seems to be noticed more than match going fans currently.

The owner isn't investing his own money regardless of stay or go that is the point the club spends it's own money they are not benefactors and we aren't asking them to be benefactors we are simply asking them to stop taking money out when it's clearly that the club (or business) needs investment.
 

Mr C

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Oh I agree, they need to pay that loan off, and really they borrowed it, they should pay it. But it aint going to happen like that.
 

jsp

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Even if the clubs kept paying the debt just stop taking £25m out on top of that directly to their pockets would be a start.
 

jsp

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It'll be interesting to see over the next few months how much momentum remains behind this movement.

The date with the fans forum is now set although one member of the fan forum wasn't happy at the short notice as he along with one or two others aren't actually able to attend on that date.
 

jsp

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I hope he actually takes some questions from the fans.

I follow one of the fans on the forum on Twitter so interested to see if he's able to give some details of what happens.
 

Ben Townsend

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I hope he actually takes some questions from the fans.

I follow one of the fans on the forum on Twitter so interested to see if he's able to give some details of what happens.
What's your twitter @ mate ?
 

Mr C

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Just read the club statement, sounds positive, but I guess it's only words for now, but we have to trust them now or there is no point even having dialogue with them. Glad they are going to invest in the stadium.
 

Ben Townsend

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The devil is in the detail and only time will tell, I personally wont believe a word of it until we see some actions.
 

jsp

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Positive talk but they need to back it up over the next 12 months with on going fan engagement and start putting some meat on the bones of the plans they’re proposing like the fan share scheme.

As we all know getting them out of the club is tough if not impossible but let’s hope that now the fans will be listened to and force them to be better owners putting fans first not profits.
 

jsp

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Yesterday 10 people were arrested taking the total to 18 and the police are still looking to speak to 36 men who they've released photos of in relation to this investigation.

You have to wonder why so much money is being spent on this investigation into a one off protest that resulted in a fairly small amount of criminal damage to the clubs property and a few minor injuries.

Feels very much like they're trying to send a message to people not to try this sort of thing again because on that day the police were caught with their pants down by football fans.

Also, if you speak to anyone that was there that day the violence only started once the police decided to move in on crowds up to that point there had been very little incident it was only when people were forced back that things started to get violent with objects being thrown.
 

Justin Cider

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Yesterday 10 people were arrested taking the total to 18 and the police are still looking to speak to 36 men who they've released photos of in relation to this investigation.

You have to wonder why so much money is being spent on this investigation into a one off protest that resulted in a fairly small amount of criminal damage to the clubs property and a few minor injuries.

Feels very much like they're trying to send a message to people not to try this sort of thing again because on that day the police were caught with their pants down by football fans.

Also, if you speak to anyone that was there that day the violence only started once the police decided to move in on crowds up to that point there had been very little incident it was only when people were forced back that things started to get violent with objects being thrown.

They're gonna say that aren't they, and I guess it was the Police's fault that 100's of fans striving for their 15 minutes of fame broke into the stadium and got the match against Liverpool called off?
 

jsp

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They're gonna say that aren't they, and I guess it was the Police's fault that 100's of fans striving for their 15 minutes of fame broke into the stadium and got the match against Liverpool called off?

Or 100’s of fans prepared to voice their anger at a business that they feel is abusing its customers loyalty by not acting in its best interests.

No doubt a few deserve a slap on the wrist for what they did on the day but they are being charged with violent disorder and being subjected to dawn raids. That sort of stuff is normally reserved for very dangerous individuals
 

Justin Cider

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Or 100’s of fans prepared to voice their anger at a business that they feel is abusing its customers loyalty by not acting in its best interests.

No doubt a few deserve a slap on the wrist for what they did on the day but they are being charged with violent disorder and being subjected to dawn raids. That sort of stuff is normally reserved for very dangerous individuals

Getting a game called off when the club they say they support already has a game every 2½ days is in the clubs best interest is it?

Those charged will get a suspended sentence at worst and a few thousand more likes on facebook, or whatever platform they put themselves forward as a champion of all Man Utd fans. If it wasn't so sad it would be embarrassing. Spoiled entitled attention seeking pricks the lot of 'em.
 

jsp

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Getting a game called off when the club they say they support already has a game every 2½ days is in the clubs best interest is it?

Those charged will get a suspended sentence at worst and a few thousand more likes on facebook, or whatever platform they put themselves forward as a champion of all Man Utd fans. If it wasn't so sad it would be embarrassing. Spoiled entitled attention seeking pricks the lot of 'em.

Screw the game it didn’t matter what our owners tried to pull off was a disgrace and the fans rightfully put a stop to it.

These owners have done a lot more harm than good and any protest against them is worthy in my book.
 

Justin Cider

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Screw the game it didn’t matter what our owners tried to pull off was a disgrace and the fans rightfully put a stop to it.

These owners have done a lot more harm than good and any protest against them is worthy in my book.

The owners are too easy a target, and I say that as someone who was a p*issed off as the next man/woman at how easy it was for them to take control of the club.
 

jsp

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The owners are too easy a target, and I say that as someone who was a p*issed off as the next man/woman at how easy it was for them to take control of the club.

They are the only target. They've run the club as a for profit organisation against the best interest of the supporters from day one and they have put people in charge who aren't up to the job of running a successful football club.

The rot starts at the top and until that changes very little below it will change the success on the pitch must be at least equal to the financial stability of the club in terms of decision making. Just look down the road at City their owners realised they know nothing about football so they went and hired a load of guys from Barcelona to run the club for them. After Fergie went Utd had to think in a similar way but they didn't instead we've got an investment banker and his mates from uni making all the big decisions over how the club operates.

We are still paying their mortgage on the club every year and every year they pay themselves a salary and dividend for the pleasure knowing that idiots like me are addicted to their product so I'll keep coming back for more no matter what they do.
 

Justin Cider

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They are the only target. They've run the club as a for profit organisation against the best interest of the supporters from day one and they have put people in charge who aren't up to the job of running a successful football club.

The rot starts at the top and until that changes very little below it will change the success on the pitch must be at least equal to the financial stability of the club in terms of decision making. Just look down the road at City their owners realised they know nothing about football so they went and hired a load of guys from Barcelona to run the club for them. After Fergie went Utd had to think in a similar way but they didn't instead we've got an investment banker and his mates from uni making all the big decisions over how the club operates.

We are still paying their mortgage on the club every year and every year they pay themselves a salary and dividend for the pleasure knowing that idiots like me are addicted to their product so I'll keep coming back for more no matter what they do.

They didn't purchase the club to lose money did they, and they were always going to take out dividends. And they take a damn sight less out of the club than shareholders did previously, you know Banks and organisations that you wouldn't want to take a penny out of United, or the club to be associated with. And for all the hate they get we are in a better position financially now to compete on transfer fees/wages than we have been at any time in the clubs history, and that's a fact not opinion.

Forget City and Chelsea, and Newcastle when they get up and running they play by different rules to 99.9% of clubs in English/British football.

And i'm sorry but why would a club that had just had 20 glorious years look at fecking Man City of all teams on how to structure a club going forwards, give me strength.

If United had won a couple of Premier Leagues and a Champions League in the last three years nobody would give two s*its whether it was the Glazers or the Wheeltappers and Shunters social club that were the owners.
 

Mr C

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The glazers are terrible owners, they didn't buy the club, they borrowed money against it to get it, which shouldn't be allowed.
The amount of money we've lost to interest rates is astronomical, a disgrace. They could have used their dividends to pay that off.
The stadium and training facilities are in a terrible state. There are no facilities in the Commentry boxes to see VAR ffs the Commentry team said it's got the worst facilities in the league.
They haven't picked the best people to run the club. They've installed yes men who have no idea how to run the club.
Why do they not have a plan for this scenario, it's embarrassing.
I can't stand the glazers they've ruined the club.
 

jsp

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I believe it's now north of £1bn out the club in interest payment and fees how any fan can think of that is a good thing.

Also, the protests and ill feeling against the owners has been there from day one regardless of performance on the pitch.

The owners inherited two really solid football operators in Gill and Fergie and since the two of them left they've failed consistently to replace them and the reason I point to City is they have actually built a structure that could deliver sustained success with the owners funding it. We don't need rich owners funding it just spend out own money efficiently.

You ignore we can also play by different rules because of the size of the fan base we are a license to print money these other clubs can't just magic the sort of revenues we do out of thin air we have a huge competitive advantage and we are not failing to make the most of it.

We are where we are in spite of them not because of them and there's no way we are a healthier business now than we were in the late 90's when we were able to compeltely rebuild our stadium while still being able to out spend our rivals.
 

Mr C

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anyone can see City have done it right, got the right people in, got a great ground and trainining facilities, and don't over pay for players, they are willing to walk away.

Our womens team don't even have a shower
 

jsp

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Yep they canned the Womens team for over a decade to save money, they starved our academy of cash it's now fallen miles behind City/Chelsea who are producing much better players, starved the first team of investment toward the end of the Fergie era, doubled ticket prices within 5 years and watched Old Trafford crumble. The debt still stands at over £500m we've basically been paying the interest every year.

They have also put in place a very small power structure where no one is able to make any meaningful decisions without their sign off and approval it's ridiculous. They don't want another Alex Ferguson they've made that very clear.
 

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