Premier League 2024/25: Newcastle vs Man United - Sun 13th Apr - 16:30 KO

IDFD said:
Completely missing the point that they're a bunch of players that are being mismanaged.
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They aren’t being mismanaged they just aren’t good enough.

Your GK is not good. Your defense has potential in Yoro and experience in De Ligt and Maguire but is an average defense.

Your midfield is abysmal and has been for years.

Your attack is woeful. No goals and no creativity. How you expect to win games when you can’t score and you can’t keep the opposition out is beyond me.

I’m done arguing with you about my views on United. Say what you want and continue to fool yourself. I say what I see.
 
RichH2016 said:
Your midfield is abysmal and has been for years.

Your attack is woeful. No goals and no creativity.
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We haven't had this midfield years. Ugarte is a recent £60m signing and Mainoo started for England in a Euros final last summer.

As for no creativity when ETH was sacked we were the second most creative side in the league.
 
I'm confused by your 2023/24 stats. Assume you mean 24/25 but not sure where the 32 games comes from.

But even this season it's gone backwards. ETH was at 1.22 (And as pointed at previously it was a poor start, but we were playing much better football, creating a lot more and giving away a lot less and 4 open goal misses cost us 8 points in the opening 9 games and Brunos rescinded red card)

Amorim is actually at 1.09 PPG. The results have clearly got worse as well as the performances, the goals scored, goals conceded, chances created, chances conceded. Everything bar possession (53.1 to ETH 52.2) has gone backwards under Amorims reign. Not sure why we'd even pretend that isn't the case when it's quite simply facts not opinion based.
 
The midfield is abysmal

Casemiro - £60m plus add ons can't run anymore.
Eriksen - can't run and wasn't a centre mid prior to being signed for that role.
Mount - £55m plus add ons never fit and also wasn't a centre mid prior to being signed for that role.
Ugarte - £42m signing (plus add ons) having an ok first season.
Mainoo - still a kid and had a lot of injury problems in his first 2 seasons.
Collyer - a kid in his first season and has also struggled with injury.

We've spent a decent amount of money on it in the last 3 summer windows without improving it at all, we've been signing the wrong type of players.
 
Mr C said:
My guess is they need to go all in on him. No point going through this to rip it up and start again.
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There is one massive reason. You don't build a squad that's suited to a formation that's never been proven to give sustained success in this league.

You constantly said in ETH reign. The big clubs wouldn't stand for this ETH would have been gone long ago and the board need to be quicker acting. Not long in to his second season.

What do we do when we spend all we can this summer and then realise this system of his doesn't work and we are sitting 17th at Christmas?
 
IDFD said:
I'm confused by your 2023/24 stats. Assume you mean 24/25 but not sure where the 32 games comes from.

But even this season it's gone backwards. ETH was at 1.22 (And as pointed at previously it was a poor start, but we were playing much better football, creating a lot more and giving away a lot less and 4 open goal misses cost us 8 points in the opening 9 games and Brunos rescinded red card)

Amorim is actually at 1.09 PPG. The results have clearly got worse as well as the performances, the goals scored, goals conceded, chances created, chances conceded. Everything bar possession (53.1 to ETH 52.2) has gone backwards under Amorims reign. Not sure why we'd even pretend that isn't the case when it's quite simply facts not opinion based.
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I've corrected it now yes the bottom two lines are 2024/25 the first 9 games under ETH then the overall season total which combines ETH/Ruud/Amorim.

It was a poor start but viewed in the context of a poor finish to last season it was fair to say that over a pretty large data sample they were rightfully worried and probably justified in the decision to sack him.

The Bruno red card in a game where we could have been 3-0 down before it even happened?

Isn't the "open goals" being missed a sign that some of our players aren't good enough? Neither manager has players in attacking positions he can rely on for quality other than Bruno. They're having to rely on a lad like Garnacho who is very hot and cold with his finishing.

I don't think anyone is saying it's got better you just want to project that people are saying that.

All people are saying generally is that we finally seem to have got our heads around playing his way but there are major problems which are individual errors cost us a lot of goals and going forward we are not anywhere near ruthless enough with the chances we do create.

If this carries on next season he won't see Xmas but the club clearly feel he's the man so they need to back him in the summer with some players and clear out some of the lads who need to go regardless of who the manager is and see how he gets on.
 
jsp said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's got better you just want to project that people are saying that.
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You said the results hadn't gotten worse. When factually under Amorim they have. He's under 1.1 points a game.

ETH did have a bad start but even in comparison to that Amorim is worse. That's how bad it's been. Amorim has been worse than ETH at his worse.

Though many on here have said things having gotten better. Even though nothing at all backs that up.
 
IDFD said:
His first season we had a very poor start he turned around.
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He did granted but let’s be honest his attacking options were far superior. He had Rashford firing on all cylinders, Sancho and Antony actually resembled football players back then, even he had a fairly fit Martial to rely on. Then those were supplemented by Bruno. You also had Garnacho and Elanga breaking through and contributing. Even the loan players Weghorst and Sabitzer had their moments! Weghorst didn’t score many but least he was a half decent focal point.

Casemiro was also a far different proposition in his first season than he is now, same with Eriksen.

ETH had far more tools in his armoury than Amorim does now.
 
IDFD said:
You said the results hadn't gotten worse. When factually under Amorim they have. He's under 1.1 points a game.

ETH did have a bad start but even in comparison to that Amorim is worse. That's how bad it's been. Amorim has been worse than ETH at his worse.

Though many on here have said things having gotten better. Even though nothing at all backs that up.
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1.2 to 1.1 is hardly a massive shift is it?

I would say the difference there is a sign that things have not improved they have basically stayed the same but what we have done is bed in the new system and get a feel for which players can and more importantly can't do it.

That will hopefully help us better plan for the summer and address the key weaknesses that will have to improve.

I don't expect us to catapult up the league table next season either as we won't have the money to fix everything in 1 hit.
 
Groundhog Day on here again, ETH brought in Onana and Antony both were sackable offences just to name a couple.
And don’t expect anything to change much any time soon that squad is dreadful, NO manager would succeed here at the moment United need at the bare minimum 6 top class players to make it better but that won’t happen because of the financial constraints, basically we are fkd for a while, maybe a long while.
That’s the truth get used to it.
 
IDFD said:
He's got 2 wins that havn't come against a team in the relegation zone.

He shoulders a lot of the blame for how disastrous it's been. I'll ask you the same question do you truly believe we'd be where we are had we appointed Emery in November?
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Which Emery is this ?
The one at Villa, or the one managing the Sunday League team in Western USA?
Because I'll be a months wages the one at Villa would have laughed in Ratcliffes face
 
My take on all of this is that we have over paid on every player we have bought under ETH, we were fleeced on fee's giving us the fans a perception that the players are better then they are.
Yoro is good but he's not €62m good, he's a prospect and is punching well above his weight in this team
Ugarte just not the quality we need in midfield €50m for basically a squad player
De Ligt had his day €45m, looks lost in this league, games just seem to pass him by
Zirkzee €42.5m Not ready for the EPL, has some nice skills, but is way too slow for the pace of EPL
Mazraoui €15m not even worth that, League One player at best.

Add to them Eriksen, Lindelhof, Casemiro, Onana, Maguire and Hoijland and you have a recipe for disaster, this is not down to Amorim, the players he has are just not EPL quality, some of them would have a job getting into an Ipswich side.

This squad needs major surgery, given the money and PSR, we are stuck with them for a couple more seasons.
However I see a brighter future, the U18's are playing Amorim's style, they have adapted it, and are playing it, they are also winning, and are second in the their league, albeit behind City.

Only one goal Newcastle scored can be put solely on Bayinder, the other three are down to poor defensive work, the culprits being Dalot, Mazraoui and Lindelhof, lapses in concentration, no desire to win the ball, complete lack of reading and understanding the game.

The reason we are doing better in Europe is because it's a slower game, it's that simple.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Incredibly harsh (or wrong) on Mazraoui and De Ligt. Both have been mostly good this season.
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Agreed. Strange criticism of those two and Yoro will justify that transfer free and then some by the time he’s finished here.

Maz a league one player at best. The post lost all credibility at that point.
 
SuperRash said:
He did granted but let’s be honest his attacking options were far superior. He had Rashford firing on all cylinders, Sancho and Antony actually resembled football players back then, even he had a fairly fit Martial to rely on. Then those were supplemented by Bruno. You also had Garnacho and Elanga breaking through and contributing. Even the loan players Weghorst and Sabitzer had their moments! Weghorst didn’t score many but least he was a half decent focal point.

Casemiro was also a far different proposition in his first season than he is now, same with Eriksen.

ETH had far more tools in his armoury than Amorim does now.
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So we are saying ETH had more because he had the same players performing better? Bar Martial?

Yoro, De Ligt, Maz, Ugarte have all been improvements on what we were working with!
 
IDFD said:
So we are saying ETH had more because he had the same players performing better? Bar Martial?

Yoro, De Ligt, Maz, Ugarte have all been improvements on what we were working with!
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In that season you referenced where he recovered after a bad start then absolutely. Of course he had better options but on the most part he was so fortunate to have a Rashford who actually showed what he can do over a whole season.

I was mostly referencing the attacking areas but without a doubt Amorim has better defensive options. Shame he was left with an attacking bunch who couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo.
 
SuperRash said:
Agreed. Strange criticism of those two and Yoro will justify that transfer free and then some by the time he’s finished here.

Maz a league one player at best. The post lost all credibility at that point.
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I don't think so, the guy has shown time after time he's well out of his depth, the EPL is too fast for him, he looks completely lost at times
 
just caught the highlights and that was a hammering. Mistakes ruthlessly punished time and time again.

They’ve well and truly got our number these days and are on current form they’re the best team in the league. Got 5 or 6 players who are just bang on it right now. That place is buzzing.

Since they got that money their decisions in the market have been bang on. They’ll need a few more to cope with European football again next season but they’ve got a core of probably 15 or 16 really good players all built suited to their way of playing.

Playing that way twice a week is a different story we saw that last season. That way of playing is hard graft and they’ll need a much deeper squad for the extra games.

As for us once they got the 2nd looks like our heads dipped and we just didn’t have the stomach for a fight back.

Amorim clearly tossed it off to protect players for Thursday which was the right thing to do.

The 4th goal was so sloppy we actually had them 3 vs 3 just pump it long. What pass is he even trying to hit?
 
SuperRash said:
I was mostly referencing the attacking areas but without a doubt Amorim has better defensive options.
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Yet they concede more.

Also ETH had the same attacking options. What players did we lose? ETH just got a better tune out of them.

Who am I forgetting about that ETH had?
 
IDFD said:
Couldn't disagree more. Bargain of a signing.
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Let me run some names past you
Gary Neville, Paul Parker, Viv Anderson, Tony Valencia, Denis Irwin, he can't even stand in Rafaels shadow
Now tell me he's crap, without telling me he's crap
 
Matt Varnish said:
Let me run some names past you
Gary Neville, Paul Parker, Viv Anderson, Tony Valencia, Denis Irwin, he can't even stand in Rafaels shadow
Now tell me he's crap, without telling me he's crap
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Run those games past me all you want. He's not crap. He's also not playing full back in Amorims formation the majority of the time. Play him as a RB and you'll get what you want out of him. I'd say he's better than 3 of the names you mentioned as a RB. And the others are legends of the clubs.

It's not his fault the manager is playing a system that doesn't suit him. Or that our manager can't adapt to the league.

(Even though we don't see eye to eye it's good to see you back fella. Hope you're doing well)
 
IDFD said:
Run those games past me all you want. He's not crap. He's also not playing full back in Amorims formation the majority of the time. Play him as a RB and you'll get what you want out of him. I'd say he's better than 3 if the names you mentioned as a RB. And the others are legends of the clubs.

It's not his fault the manager is playing a system that doesn't suit him. Or that our manager can't adapt to the league.
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He's been played as a RB and RWB with Dalot being moved to the left (not his natural side) to accommodate him, and been crap in every game, he's had the odd good game, but odds are that at 68 even I would have the odd good game in this side.
 
He's played many games at RCB.

He's also a RB not a RWB. And that has a massive effect on his thoughts on the pitch positionally wise. He's being asked to play a position he doesn't play.

He's certainly not been crap in every game he's played. In fact I'd suggest anger Bruno he's been our best player this season.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Let me run some names past you
Gary Neville, Paul Parker, Viv Anderson, Tony Valencia, Denis Irwin, he can't even stand in Rafaels shadow
Now tell me he's crap, without telling me he's crap
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Just because you rattle off some names who also played that position doesn’t mean he’s crap. Obviously you have your opinion but I think 99% of fans would strongly disagree with you.

I would definitely say you are the only one on here that would have that opinion.
 
SuperRash said:
Just because you rattle off some names who also played that position doesn’t mean he’s crap. Obviously you have your opinion but I think 99% of fans would strongly disagree with you.

I would definitely say you are the only one on here that would have that opinion.
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It's not just rattling off names though is it.
Those are players who could make forward runs, all game long, and perform defensive duties, they also scored the odd goal, (Ok Dalot does), but Mazraoui in most games is a passenger.
 
IDFD said:
We haven't had this midfield years. Ugarte is a recent £60m signing and Mainoo started for England in a Euros final last summer.

As for no creativity when ETH was sacked we were the second most creative side in the league.
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Did I say you’d had this midfield for years? See that is your thing… You twist what’s been said or you take things out of context to try to help you make a point. What I said was your midfield is abysmal and has been for years.

Ugarte looks fine but he’s limited and needs a player alongside him who can control and pass and dictate. He’s a good player but I don’t think he’s elite or even a really good player.

Mainoo is a very talented young player but I’m not sure he’s going to fit in the Amorim system. I think he needs to be part of a midfield 3. He’s brilliant on the ball and in tight spaces but I’m not sure that he is physical enough or quick enough to play in a 2.
 
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The whole affair just made me sad.

How far we have fallen in recent times is just so depressing.

Newcastle aren't even that good of a side if you ask me. They've got one or two players who are a bit special, but that's it. We shouldn't be losing 4-1.

This performance was embarrassing to all involved.
 
Jayc1860 said:
The whole affair just made me sad.

How far we have fallen in recent times is just so depressing.

Newcastle aren't even that good of a side if you ask me. They've got one or two players who are a bit special, but that's it. We shouldn't be losing 4-1.

This performance was embarrassing to all involved.
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Isn't that true of all teams though ?
The fact is we don't even have that, we don't have those players who can lift a team, Bruno is the only one who seems capable of doing, but even he falls short at times, he can't carry this team all the time.
The only one I saw putting any real effort in was Amass, at least he tried, and the difference, he's not a mercenary, he's come up through the ranks.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Isn't that true of all teams though ?
The fact is we don't even have that, we don't have those players who can lift a team, Bruno is the only one who seems capable of doing, but even he falls short at times, he can't carry this team all the time.
The only one I saw putting any real effort in was Amass, at least he tried, and the difference, he's not a mercenary, he's come up through the ranks.
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We should have more than two quality players for the money we have spent. We should have more than Newcastle and most teams actually, but we don't.

I just wanted to see more fight from the players.
 

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