Premier League 2024/25: Newcastle vs Man United - Sun 13th Apr - 16:30 KO

[Sideshow Bob]

Thankfully this season will be Lindelof’s last at United. That was possibly his last game.

 

[IDFD]

The man is being asked to bluff with a pair of 2’s every week

Nope. As a poker player. The man is treating a pair of 10's like 2's and as such getting caught out every week.

His win percentage is now half that of Ten Hags. (With the same squad however probably a better squad as i think we all agree Yoro, and Maz are upgrades on what we had last season)

 

[jsp]

Nope. As a poker player. The man is treating a pair of 10's like 2's and as such getting caught out every week.

His win percentage is now half that of Ten Hags. (With the same squad however probably a better squad as i think we all agree Yoro, and Maz are upgrades on what we had last season)

Nonsense pal. I accept it shouldn’t be this bad but it’s hardly surprising that it is. I wanted the last guy to work but he was taking us down the wrong road.

Utd were sliding big time last season a cup win covered up a dreadful season that would have seen ETH sacked.

I don’t think the signings in the summer were bad but none of them were signings that repaired the major flaws.

How do you arrange this lot into a winning hand?

no matter how you arrange it there’s still holes everywhere.

This season relies so much on Hojlund and Garnacho kicking on and Rashford finding his form again.

That forward line up is horrendous

 

[Berba_God]

The performance will have dented the confidence of the players ahead of the big game on Thursday.

 

[RaimondVanDeGouw]

Not having it that this bloke is a football manager. Nice fella, wears nice coats, crap.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Not having it that this bloke is a football manager. Nice fella, wears nice coats, crap.

Why are you not having him as a manager?

 

[RichH2016]

How do you arrange this lot into a winning hand?

You don’t and you can’t. The team aren’t good and their league position is deserving of their ability. This isn’t a team that’s really underperforming this is a team that lacks quality.

 

[RVN]

Amorim cannot give the players the will to run, to chase every ball, the application, the attitude, game awareness, the ability to sense danger, tactical acumen, or power. This should be the basic requirement of all players let alone those playing for our club. This is a poorly assembled squad of poor players. So many fail to meet the basic standard required of playing for Manchester United. It is ridiculous that we are saying this, but we need new players who can run for 90 minutes and are physically imposing. It was embarrassing to see our players not running to engage the opponent or even giving 100% for the shirt. We need a full reset. We have reset the football decision makers and the manager. Now we need to reset the squad.

 

[IDFD]

You don’t and you can’t. The team aren’t good and their league position is deserving of their ability. This isn’t a team that’s really underperforming this is a team that lacks quality.

They are clearly under performing. It's a team that have never performed this badly. I hate the fact people are trying to justify this crap. The team isn't this bad. Yes you play them in a formation that doesn't suit them and ask them to play in a way that doesn't suit them, the end result is that they don't look a decent side.

But make no mistake of it. They're much better than what's being shown. Let's not be silly. They aren't a relegation fighting side. Despite Amorims 28% win ratio and 23 points from 21 games.

They aren't world beaters. Probably should be about 8th. We are 17th since Amorim joined.

 

[IDFD]

Nonsense pal. I accept it shouldn’t be this bad.

So not nonsense.

And just an idea. But maybe play the team in the formation it was built for? The wingers as wingers and not 10's?

Try stretching the pitch.

I'm not saying it's a championship side. I'm saying it's definitely a top 10 side and it's being woefully mismanaged.

 

[jsp]

So not nonsense.

And just an idea. But maybe play the team in the formation it was built for? The wingers as wingers and not 10's?

Try stretching the pitch.

I'm not saying it's a championship side. I'm saying it's definitely a top 10 side and it's being woefully mismanaged.

That isn’t what he’s been hired to do though. They’ve hired him to play his way so he’s going to do it. He could switch back to 4-2-3-1 but he’d still have issues. He hasn’t got a midfield pairing that works. He hasn’t got a left back. He hasn’t got a centre forward and currently he’s got 1 fit winger who’s having a tough season.

I think it’s an average squad of players having a poor season.

 

[IDFD]

I think it’s an average squad of players having a poor season.

A very poor season. That falls on one person. 23 points from 21 games simply isn't acceptable.

When we had ETH someone constantly said the big clubs in Spain and Italy would have made the change by now. How long do we think Amorim would have lasted at either of them with these results?

It's never been this bad. He's been worse than Ralf. It's shockingly bad and there is quite frankly no defence for it.

 

[RVN]

A lot of the issues we currently have are due to EtH.

 

[IDFD]

A lot of the issues we currently have are due to EtH.

A very short sighted analysis.

And the fact we are playing the wrong formation?

Or we just ignoring the fact it's been that bad under Amorim? (None of us ever expected Ralf to be made to look good by anyone as a manager. But the issues are we didn't take him on board as promised)

I genuinely believe i could put you in control of this group of players and the results would be no worse.

It took you all a while to get on the same page when we got Onana yet now you all are. I didn't say jokingly that Amorim wouldn't work in the Premier league. I spend my life around football and couldn't see it ever working and don't think it will.

But I do very much hope we win the EL and he spends next season proving me wrong.

 

[RVN]

And the fact we are playing the wrong formation?

What formation would you suggest? These players have failed with most formations under several managers.

 

[Mr C]

Didn't see it.

None of this is the current managers fault.

But there is a part of me beginning to think, will they stick with him

Edit.

I retract that, just seen motd.

Awful defending and lack of effort. Unacceptable

 

[jsp]

A very poor season. That falls on one person. 23 points from 21 games simply isn't acceptable.

When we had ETH someone constantly said the big clubs in Spain and Italy would have made the change by now. How long do we think Amorim would have lasted at either of them with these results?

It's never been this bad. He's been worse than Ralf. It's shockingly bad and there is quite frankly no defence for it.

Not very long but those two clubs are totally different structures at those clubs you are the coach and just a coach you get no real say on the players they sign or sell you are there purely for results. There's also always quality players in those squads that a new manager can work with and try and get going again and the competition they're up against are miles behind.

Like it or not we've been dragged into the mid table premier group now and on paper our squad shows it with the exception of Bruno if we put them all up for sale tomorrow on cheap prices none of them are getting picked up by top clubs. The signings we've made under ETH that were meant to rebuild the squad have largely failed and it feels like 3 years later it's back to square one again just this time we've probably get even less money to gamble with.

I just don't have the stomach for another change I said this season would probably be a write off when he came in and I didn't expect it to be this bad but I can see reasons why it's gone this way.

I wasn't blind I said changing the way we play mid season is going to be tough and to a degree I think they're starting to get a grip on it but there are just some players who can't do it and wont ever be able to do it.

Since you bring up Ralf he had a much better squad of players to work with in his 6 months but by that point he also had a squad full of d*ckheads who wanted to be anywhere but Utd. Much like Ralf changing a game plan mid season when you're still in europe meaning 2 games a week and no training time makes it almost impossible.

But you know they didn't listen to Ralf they decided to get rid of him and bring in ETH who with the benefit of hindsight I think was building a squad for an era of football that is now gone. Since 2021 teams have been getting bigger, quicker and more powerful. ETH I think was building a squad for the era before where the game was more technical and slow.

 

[RaimondVanDeGouw]

Why are you not having him as a manager?

Because he’s crap.

I’ve no issue with having a preferred style but to be married to said style regardless of results and to show no flexibility or adaptability at all is beyond alarming. It’s abundantly clear that this is a crap playing group and there’s some sympathy with RA there but he also sets them up to fail with the same crap football and tactics week after week so he isn’t devoid of shouldering the blame.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Because he’s crap.

I’ve no issue with having a preferred style but to be married to said style regardless of results and to show no flexibility or adaptability at all is beyond alarming. It’s abundantly clear that this is a crap playing group and there’s some sympathy with RA there but he also sets them up to fail with the same crap football and tactics week after week so he isn’t devoid of shouldering the blame.

He’s clearly not crap.

Regarding the same tactics point, my post from February:

Bit like Klopp in his first season at Liverpool. He stuck with his preferred system and beliefs despite inconsistent results to identify the players that could be part of his squad.

He’s also had to endure a group of forwards who are struggling for form, or might not be good enough.

 

[SuperRash]

So not nonsense.

And just an idea. But maybe play the team in the formation it was built for? The wingers as wingers and not 10's?

Try stretching the pitch.

I'm not saying it's a championship side. I'm saying it's definitely a top 10 side and it's being woefully mismanaged.

We tried stretching the pitch and it left our midfield ridiculously exposed under ETH. But again that was largely down to personnel rather than the manager. Our signings over the years have just been terrible. You look at Newcastle for example, they’ve made some superb signings and I look at them and think where are our gun signings? Defensively we’ve made some good moves with Maz and Yoro but beyond that there hasn’t been much of note.

I personally don’t like the formation we are playing, I’ve always thought it is way too defensive so will be interested to see how Amorim tinkers with it over the summer. Will we try and bring in a more offensive player to play RWB? If we implement a more attacking version like his Lisbon side then it could be more exciting but our current group of players just are not cutting it.

I feel like our players still get an easy ride and it’s so easy to put it on the manager. The type of formation we play doesn’t mean anything when the players continually make stupid decisions, have poor game awareness, lack energy and fight - I could go on and on about their deficiencies. We’ve slowly got rid of the time wasters and bad apples but such a long way to go.

If you don’t realise there are so many other factors apart from the manager then you’re a little naive and short sighted. I totally put it on the manager and the players, Amorim could be more adaptive for sure and it does seem like he’s very rigid on his system. I’ve already said what I think is wrong with the players but it’s not like we don’t have quality but those players with that bit of extra quality have been injured for large parts of this season.

 

[JammyRed]

Starting a game with Lindelof and Eriksen means you are effectively two men down from the start thats before you even start talking about the crap squad generally, lack of midfield quality and miss firing forward line.
The line up was weak because the focus is on Thursday lets hope they pull their socks up and get through that game.

 

[RaimondVanDeGouw]

He’s clearly not crap.

Regarding the same tactics point, my post from February:



He’s also had to endure a group of forwards who are struggling for form, or might not be good enough.

His record suggests he’s crap.

If the only thing we have to go off is “well, look at Klopp”, it suggests that he’s got so little going for him that we’re hoping history repeats itself elsewhere. The thing with Klopp is he lost 8 league games and got to two finals in that first season, once he arrived in October. We’ll be lucky if we get 8 league wins under Amorim.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

His record suggests he’s crap.

If the only thing we have to go off is “well, look at Klopp”, it suggests that he’s got so little going for him that we’re hoping history repeats itself elsewhere. The thing with Klopp is he lost 8 league games and got to two finals in that first season, once he arrived in October. We’ll be lucky if we get 8 league wins under Amorim.

His record at Sporting suggests he isn’t crap.

 

[RaimondVanDeGouw]

His record at Sporting suggests he isn’t crap.

His record in a far inferior league. Mega, that.

 

[RichH2016]

They are clearly under performing. It's a team that have never performed this badly. I hate the fact people are trying to justify this crap. The team isn't this bad. Yes you play them in a formation that doesn't suit them and ask them to play in a way that doesn't suit them, the end result is that they don't look a decent side.

But make no mistake of it. They're much better than what's being shown. Let's not be silly. They aren't a relegation fighting side. Despite Amorims 28% win ratio and 23 points from 21 games.

They aren't world beaters. Probably should be about 8th. We are 17th since Amorim joined.

Sorry bud but you are blinkered if you think your team should be about 8th. That is a bad football team who are where they are because they deserve to be there.

They aren’t strong in defense, they don’t score goals, they don’t create a lot of chances. They are a bad team who are where they deserve to be.

Who in that team could play for say a top 6-8 team? Not a top 4 team but 5-8? Bruno sure. Amad? Yeah. The rest? I think it would be a debate with some and a clear no for a lot.

 

[IDFD]

Sorry bud but you are blinkered if you think your team should be about 8th. That is a bad football team who are where they are because they deserve to be there.

They aren’t strong in defense, they don’t score goals, they don’t create a lot of chances. They are a bad team who are where they deserve to be.

Who in that team could play for say a top 6-8 team? Not a top 4 team but 5-8? Bruno sure. Amad? Yeah. The rest? I think it would be a debate with some and a clear no for a lot.

Completely missing the point that they're a bunch of players that are being mismanaged. Let's not forget Rashford for example. Someone who wouldn't make your list but as gone away and is playing for a team in the range you mention. A player who couldn't get in to our team. Chelsea wanted Garnacho for £50m in January. When I said I wanted Berge I was laughed at for him not being good enough to be a United player. Now you're telling me Ugarte can't get in the Fulham squad ahead of him? That De Ligt, Yoro and Martinez aren't better defenders than Bassey or Pau Torres/Mings?

If this team really is a team that should be 16th in the league and they aren't being mismanaged then my god we should have kept ETH because he was doing absolute wonders getting them in to Europe.

I'm not blinkered in the slightest. I wouldn't hesitate to say that you are though because of your constant desire to take digs at United. But as I said above clearly if this team is as bad as you say ETH was working miracles. But I don't think you believe that to be true?

If you truly think this side should be competing at a point a game and in relegation form it really isn't me that's blinkered. Say we'd appointed Emery in November. Really believe we'd be where we are now?

Amorims full season pace is 41 points. That is not where this team is. That's down 19 points on last season and 10 points on the pace we were on for before his appointment.

 

[SuperRash]

His record in a far inferior league. Mega, that.

I sometimes cannot fathom the logic of football fans. He’s had a difficult start to his career here but he’s got a poorly assembled squad so he automatically is just written off as crap. Granted it’s not gone well and he’s not blameless in the slightest but to write him off as crap is just nonsense.

 

[IDFD]

I sometimes cannot fathom the logic of football fans. He’s had a difficult start to his career here but he’s got a poorly assembled squad so he automatically is just written off as crap. Granted it’s not gone well and he’s not blameless in the slightest but to write him off as crap is just nonsense.

He's got 2 wins that havn't come against a team in the relegation zone.

He shoulders a lot of the blame for how disastrous it's been. I'll ask you the same question do you truly believe we'd be where we are had we appointed Emery in November?

 

[SuperRash]

He's got 2 wins that havn't come against a team in the relegation zone.

He shoulders a lot of the blame for how disastrous it's been. I'll ask you the same question do you truly believe we'd be where we are had we appointed Emery in November?

I didn’t say he didn’t shoulder some of the blame, I was merely pointing out its nonsense to call him crap.

Who knows? We would probably still be in the same position if we hadn’t sacked ETH, so we needed to try something. We could be doing better with Emery in charge but it wouldn’t change the players to be fair.

 

[IDFD]

We would probably still be in the same position if we hadn’t sacked ETH.

We have evidence that, that's unlikely to be the case.

 

[SuperRash]

We have evidence that, that's unlikely to be the case.

Do we?

 

[Sideshow Bob]

His record in a far inferior league. Mega, that.

A rather simplistic view.

 

[IDFD]

Do we?

His first season we had a very poor start he turned around.

 

[Mr C]

ETH gave us our worst prem finish, to date, and more or less our worst start, bar 1 point.
He was tactically clueless and made bizarre substitutions. Miss managed players.
All after spending 600m.
Can we stop Harping back to a terrible manager who was wrong for the club.

So far the new guy has had a horrible start. But literally everybody knew this was coming. The squad needed a complete reset.

Is this guy the right guy? Without giving him 600m and another 2 seasons it's hard to compare to ETH.

He is making it difficult for the club to back him in the summer.

But if his idea is to find out who he can move forward with, then this is the way.

Let's not forget we signed an awful keeper, and an awful forward, both signed for huge money by Ten Hag. And theses two positions are largely why we are so crap.

My guess is they need to go all in on him. No point going through this to rip it up and start again.

 

[jsp]

If we use the points per game metric when ETH was sacked he had 11 points from 9 games so if you take that out to 32 games then we'd be on 39 points rather than 38 and we'd expect a total of 46 points. I expect we'll probably finish somewhere around the 46 point mark.

These are basically the league form when based on a points per game. You need to up around 2 points per game to finish top 4 in the premier league.

2019/20 Ole 1.7 points per game
2020/21 Ole 2 points per game
2021/22 Ole/Rangnick 1.5 per game
2022/23 ETH 2 points per game
2023/24 ETH 1.5 points per game
2024/25 (9 games) 1.2 points per game
2024/25 (32 games) 1.2 points per game

So things were declining despite big investment in the squad and changing the manager hasn't really changed the results.