Premier League 2024/25: Man United vs Liverpool - Sun 1st Sept - 16:00 KO

Whatever he decides it needs to be right. I think it's time to give up on whatever he's trying to do with this 4-2-3-1 and move back to the 4-2-2-2 narrow block that beat City. It gives much greater strength to the midfield.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Crazy that Onana is being criticised but shouldn’t be surprised by the nonsense. He isn’t allowed to concede a goal without being criticised.
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Their XG was 1.5 we conceded 3. The second should have been saved. The first I have no idea what he was doing. Maybe you need to rewatch to see how silly he was.

But he faced 3 shots conceded 3.

Perhaps I was unfairly treated with VDS and DDG but I expect my keeper to save shots close to them.
 
Mr C said:
The problem with this board is people don't read the posts. They interpret them to suit their view of the poster
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I'd disagree with that i think the problem in general is you have United fans who lied at the end of last season and said if the board stuck with ETH then they'd back him next season and 3 games in they're here whinging.

It's a fault of the people lying not a fault of anyone being unable to read. And I don't mean you. Think you're one of the most genuine people on the forum we've discussed United for 19 years.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Whatever he decides it needs to be right. I think it's time to give up on whatever he's trying to do with this 4-2-3-1 and move back to the 4-2-2-2 narrow block that beat City. It gives much greater strength to the midfield.
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But that narrow block lost to Brighton.

I don't think it was a narrow block it was 4-4-2 but the front 2 played as false 9's when we defended the wide players were still wide. they didn't come narrow it was the forwards that dropped back in.

I think the obvious fix is when we build up from the back the full backs cannot be as high and we have to have a way of playing over the press if teams really squeeze on us.
 
IDFD said:
Their XG was 1.5 we conceded 3. The second should have been saved. The first I have no idea what he was doing. Maybe you need to rewatch to see how silly he was.

But he faced 3 shots conceded 3.

Perhaps I was unfairly treated with VDS and DDG but I expect my keeper to save shots close to them.
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I think all 3 are good finishes he's having to move across the goal to cover cut backs and they're all first time finishes under no pressure so the attacker can pick his spot and all 3 are good connections wasn't like they were scuffed all were clean strikes with plenty of power on them.

The first he's got no real chance with that.

The second he's got to shift his weight back and get down it's a very difficult save that if he made it would go down as world class.

The third personally I think he's took a bit of a gamble that Salah will go back across the keeper but he's smart enough to see the gap and go to the near post. Even if Onana had continued coming across the goal Salah would just go back across him into the far corner or even take a touch.
 
IDFD said:
It's a fault of the people lying not a fault of anyone being unable to read. And I don't mean you. Think you're one of the most genuine people on the forum we've discussed United for 19 years.
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Thanks, I try and be fair and honest and not to get personal. I get we all have different views, that makes the forum.

That football last season was just doing my head in. I do see an improvement this year, last year I would imagine Liverpool had much more possession.
It's not great, and I think we need to admit that rather than think it's all rosey. There were mistakes by plaers on Sunday, but the coach should see that and change it. But he needs a chance with these new players. He has to at least have a chance with Ugarte. Christmas is the time to look where we are at I would say.

If he does go:

Talk of RVN as coach is crazy, clearly with all the management failures, it's a massive job and needs a massive coach.

I'm not going to say who I think it should be, because it's crazy, will get slagged off, and in fact I slagged this coach off. Not sure why he would be my choice really. Probs because I love him, like I did Ole.
 
Said before the game we needed Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno to have big games, might have included Maguire as well, but none of them did, no need for hindsight analaticals as to why we got beat.

Your big players turn up you've got a chance, if they don't you haven't against a team at your level or higher, simple.
 
Mr C said:
I'm not going to say who I think it should be, because it's crazy, will get slagged off, and in fact I slagged this coach off. Not sure why he would be my choice really. Probs because I love him, like I did Ole.
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If there was to be a change of manager after Christmas. Keiran McKenna surely should be first in line. However Gareth Southgate is 2/1 favourite so people need to be careful to remember what they wish for.
 
Have to admit, I'd be in a much worse place if Southgate took over. I can't stand his football. At least ETH attacks.

Should have nothing to worry about though, they won't appoint him surely.
 
I reckon if we made the change mid season we'd end up with Tuchel.

I still think a guy like McKenna has a lot to prove to get the Utd gig.
 
Justin Cider said:
Said before the game we needed Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno to have big games, might have included Maguire as well, but none of them did, no need for hindsight analaticals as to why we got beat.

Your big players turn up you've got a chance, if they don't you haven't against a team at your level or higher, simple.
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We simply cannot play the way he wants with one DM and no one who can keep the ball.
 
That's a bit harsh, he's done wonders for England. He's just too conservative for me.
 
justintime said:
For 3 years he has tried this and failed.
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I feel like I have to defend this guy all the time but

2 years not 3 years.
Won 2 domestic cups and delivered our second highest points total post fergie in the league in his first season.
First season I think we also had the most clean sheets in the league.
 
justintime said:
For 3 years he has tried this and failed.
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3 years? Run that by me.

2 seasons. A trophy each year. Most clubs would kill for that. Here you are criticising the manager not understand that things take time
 
You sound just like ETH - hiding behind pointless trophies.

People do understand things take time, what they don't understand is 8th place finishes, minus goal difference, and no working tactics.

jsp said:
I feel like I have to defend this guy all the time but
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Do you not understand why? I'm pretty sure you do.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Do you not understand why? I'm pretty sure you do.
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I'm happy for fair criticism of him but what I think is harsh is him getting all of the blame for a really bad season. Also, the response was mainly a poster saying he's been in the job for 3 years when it's actually 2 and 50% of the time everyone thought he was doing a good job. Last season took a massive turn for the worse but there were issues outside of his control that were a factor in that.

There's clearly been a change of tactics this season, there's been sensible investment in the squad and a change to the coaching team which is going to take a little bit of time to bed in once all of the new players are actually available hopefully we might see the team looking a lot stronger.
 
jsp said:
I'm happy for fair criticism of him but what I think is harsh is him getting all of the blame for a really bad season. Also, the response was mainly a poster saying he's been in the job for 3 years when it's actually 2 and 50% of the time everyone thought he was doing a good job. Last season took a massive turn for the worse but there were issues outside of his control that were a factor in that.

There's clearly been a change of tactics this season, there's been sensible investment in the squad and a change to the coaching team which is going to take a little bit of time to bed in once all of the new players are actually available hopefully we might see the team looking a lot stronger.
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Who else can be blamed for the team set up?

Who else can be blamed for miserable result after miserable result?

Why is our current best player playing out of position?

Why is he still making baffling subs?

Why is he crumbling under any sort of scrutiny from the media?

Does he know what he's even doing?

Why should I keep waiting for him to turn things around?

These player excuses will always be there, you will always have a new person to help bed in. Are you just going to keep saying this over and over like him?

It's boring , man.

He shows game after game he doesn't know how to respond to basic tactical problems given to him by another coach.

It all boils down to his first season being an unkown, the coaches have all found him out and now make him look silly. You can't deny it, it's right there to see every time we play.

I think all I have said here is fair and is correct, and it's just not good enough anymore.
 
Jayc1860 said:
You sound just like ETH - hiding behind pointless trophies.

People do understand things take time, what they don't understand is 8th place finishes, minus goal difference, and no working tactics.


Do you not understand why? I'm pretty sure you do.
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FA Cup, that pointless trophy

ROFLMAO
 
@Jayc1860

Who else can be blamed for the team set up?

No one but as I've said many times due to injuries we've not actually seen his strongest XI play yet. Hopefully with Ugarte, Shaw and Hojlund in after the internationals we might get a better feel of how it should look when it's working. He's having to put square pegs in round holes it would be nice to see how it looks when all the pieces are there.

Who else can be blamed for miserable result after miserable result?

Well injuries last season were a massive factor that cannot be ignored. Across the two seasons we've actually got an alright record in big games where we've struggled is consistently beating the middle/lower table sides.

Players also need to take some personal responsibility not every loss is a failure of tactics and system the 2 losses this season individual errors mainly be 1 player (our highest paid player and most decorated player) that have cost us goals in big moments.

Owners the takeover both pre and post has created a miserable mood behind the scenes according to most reports. Staff at the club have no idea about their futures pre takeover and post takeover over 200 people have been made redundant. Might sound small but if the mood at the club is low that does spread around. The takeover was also clearly a factor when it came to spending last summer and in January when it was obvious the squad needed reinforcing in a lot of areas.

Why is our current best player playing out of position?

Are you claiming Dalot is our best player. He's the only one currently out of position.

Why is he still making baffling subs?

You can only play the hand you've been dealt. Through the first 3 games he's clearly having to manage the minutes of certain players. The only one this season to me that's been "baffling" was Bruno coming off be Brighton. Again though he's barely had a pre season so it may have been fitness related he maybe wanted the running power of McTominay rather than the artistry of Bruno. If players have to come off to avoid injury you can only use what you have on the bench.

Why is he crumbling under any sort of scrutiny from the media?

Where is he crumbling? He's getting asked tough questions and he's giving his response. If they take a swing at him he takes a swing back. He's defending his players when he needs to calling out Shearer over the criticism of Rashford and he had a dig at a journalist who in my opinion asked a bit of a silly question.

Does he know what he's even doing?

Time will tell he seems to be able to set us up for 1 off games but he's yet to find a consistent style that delivers results.

Why should I keep waiting for him to turn things around?

Because it's not your decision to make. I get that you think he's crap but until the club feel there's a better man for the job that is willing to take it then he's the best we're getting. In the summer the club clearly look around and felt in the short term we're better of sticking with him than gambling.

These player excuses will always be there, you will always have a new person to help bed in. Are you just going to keep saying this over and over like him?

Of course not but the transfer window shut less than a week ago. I think he deserves a few months to work with the new players to hopefully massively improve on the mess of last season.

For me this season was a bit of a reset button the past is the past with all the takeover stuff now done and all the new directors/coaches/players in place this is the start of the new era. So yeah I expect a few growing pains in the first few months as everything settles into position but after that we need to be looking like a proper top 4 team.

Obviously if results don't pick up quickly he'll be toast but if he can get through the next 5 or 6 unbeaten then the narrative changes quickly.
 
And the patience of Job award for 2024 goes to @jsp

thumbnail-audience-clapping-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
I think there is a bit everything going on.

I wonder if his man management skills aren't so good, probably language barrier, but I think I read this is why Spurs backed away from him
The players are definitley not playing to their potential, whether again thats him, his tactics, their attitude, a bit of all of these.
Injuries play a part, I think they did affect our progress, but I also believe the manager should adapt style/tactics to suit what is available to him.
Some of his subs are baffling, and it's baffling why he didn't spot the problems vs Liverpool and change.

As we all know, last season I thought he should go, for a few of the reasons above. But the young players in the final seemed to be really into him, which says something.

Has he got the personality to manage united, not sure, I think he backs himself, but he comes accross too arrogant in pressers without backing it up, like Jose at Chelsea, but without the results. There's lots for him to learn, managing Ajax to United is a huge step.

Is it the players, can they not handle the pressure. As good as Bruno is (most of the time) can we afford a player to wander around like that. Should we just tighten it up a bit and ask him to be a bit more disciplined, but then we lose our only creative player, so the wingers would need to do more. They seem to make the wrong pass/decision when the pressure is on.

He's not done well so far this season. But he needs this next spell with all the players. I think we have improved on last season, but we seem very sloppy and that needs changing, and I think lack of a goal scorer could be his downfall. Lets hope Hojlund has improved a bit. Because we need him to start scoring quick. And that Ugarte nonsense he was saying, stop that, he needs to play

It's going to be an interesting few months. Need to go on a run.
 
jsp said:
@Jayc1860

Who else can be blamed for the team set up?

No one but as I've said many times due to injuries we've not actually seen his strongest XI play yet. Hopefully with Ugarte, Shaw and Hojlund in after the internationals we might get a better feel of how it should look when it's working. He's having to put square pegs in round holes it would be nice to see how it looks when all the pieces are there.

Who else can be blamed for miserable result after miserable result?

Well injuries last season were a massive factor that cannot be ignored. Across the two seasons we've actually got an alright record in big games where we've struggled is consistently beating the middle/lower table sides.

Players also need to take some personal responsibility not every loss is a failure of tactics and system the 2 losses this season individual errors mainly be 1 player (our highest paid player and most decorated player) that have cost us goals in big moments.

Owners the takeover both pre and post has created a miserable mood behind the scenes according to most reports. Staff at the club have no idea about their futures pre takeover and post takeover over 200 people have been made redundant. Might sound small but if the mood at the club is low that does spread around. The takeover was also clearly a factor when it came to spending last summer and in January when it was obvious the squad needed reinforcing in a lot of areas.

Why is our current best player playing out of position?

Are you claiming Dalot is our best player. He's the only one currently out of position.

Why is he still making baffling subs?

You can only play the hand you've been dealt. Through the first 3 games he's clearly having to manage the minutes of certain players. The only one this season to me that's been "baffling" was Bruno coming off be Brighton. Again though he's barely had a pre season so it may have been fitness related he maybe wanted the running power of McTominay rather than the artistry of Bruno. If players have to come off to avoid injury you can only use what you have on the bench.

Why is he crumbling under any sort of scrutiny from the media?

Where is he crumbling? He's getting asked tough questions and he's giving his response. If they take a swing at him he takes a swing back. He's defending his players when he needs to calling out Shearer over the criticism of Rashford and he had a dig at a journalist who in my opinion asked a bit of a silly question.

Does he know what he's even doing?

Time will tell he seems to be able to set us up for 1 off games but he's yet to find a consistent style that delivers results.

Why should I keep waiting for him to turn things around?

Because it's not your decision to make. I get that you think he's crap but until the club feel there's a better man for the job that is willing to take it then he's the best we're getting. In the summer the club clearly look around and felt in the short term we're better of sticking with him than gambling.

These player excuses will always be there, you will always have a new person to help bed in. Are you just going to keep saying this over and over like him?

Of course not but the transfer window shut less than a week ago. I think he deserves a few months to work with the new players to hopefully massively improve on the mess of last season.

For me this season was a bit of a reset button the past is the past with all the takeover stuff now done and all the new directors/coaches/players in place this is the start of the new era. So yeah I expect a few growing pains in the first few months as everything settles into position but after that we need to be looking like a proper top 4 team.

Obviously if results don't pick up quickly he'll be toast but if he can get through the next 5 or 6 unbeaten then the narrative changes quickly.
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I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying the strongest team argument when it comes down to making a team play in a way you want. That is evident when you watch the so called smaller teams manage to have a working system with injuries and much weaker players to choose from. A style comes from a working system, not a set of players. Do they help? Of course, but they're simply one cog in a well oiled machine, or should be. The argument smaller team coaches could have is that they have a working system but it doesn't bare enough fruit due to inadequate players. ETH has a lot of good players to utilise and three transfer windows of players bought. There is absolutely no excuse to tell me his system isn't working due to players. Maritnez has returned to the team and looks horrendous - case and point.

Injuries I grant you can play a horrible part in bad results, but should they be as damaging in the league as they are? I don't think they justify eighth. The individual errors you highlight are not player problems but again boil down to the system being played. Casemiro and Mainoo are always being left with no support centrally and teams have noticed this - they're exploiting it and ETH has no answer to it.

As I've also said before, the ongoings behind the scenes do not impact what happens on the pitch in terms of team identity. Might they impact some results now and again, sure, but they don't make a team tick. The coach is responsible for that. As I've also said, other teams in the league have no problem finding an identity whilst struggling with harder problems. Again there is no excuse.

I am claiming that Dalot is currently our best player. He's the only one performing consistently and looking good doing it. No other player can say this, so yes he's our form player by quite some distance, and he's doing it out of position. Imagine how much better he'd be playing if he was at RB. ETH fails to exploit this and instead weakens two positions on the pitch instead of one. People are starting to see the same as me, unless Maz is showing some sort of brilliance down that right flank [he isn't, he's been good] then it's surely time to move him over to be the man 'doing a job'.

As for the subs, I just don't understand them, they truly are baffling. Some come at strange times when the game is over. Other subs he should make instantly he doesn't. When we are getting dominated in midfield he chooses to do nothing until the 88th minute. It's stuff like that. This isn't one of the more major concerns though [unless a Liverpool type situation occurs] I can't be bothered to go and find the examples I'm talking about - I know they happened though.

At least you can agree that he's found no consistency and only seems to be able to set us up for one off games. That for me is a major concern. You should know this is not a coach that can win a title, as I do. His biggest run is only six games unbeaten I believe, that is pretty dire stuff. It points out exactly what we're saying, and that is he has not found a way to win with any strategy consistently.

And you're right I don't rate the man at all. I'm sick of watching this terrible football each week and being called entitled and shit like that. I don't care what people think I may be, I know the real answer to that and have been a fan for a lot longer than most of them, they don't know what support I've put in and what I've went through watching my team. I'm not going to say I'm a better fan, but I think i care more than some people here. I don't mean you by the way. I think you're always very fair.

As for the reset button - I think he got one from most fans actually, including me, but already he's just the same inconsistent coach of last season. Three out of four games lost, nobody looking like they're playing at 100% other than Dalot and for me that is telling. The team is starting to seriously doubt him IMO. They show up and put in one off performances in cup games as they know as I do that's probably the only chance of any silverware they've got.

However I am still supporting the team to my fullest when we kick off a match. I always want my team to win and disliking ETH will not change that. Deep down in there somewhere I'm hoping he does turn it around and I'm dead wrong. That does away with the problem of replacing him and starting a whole new process. Of course it's the best thing for us - but it's just not likely at this point.
 
Jayc1860 said:
I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying the strongest team argument when it comes down to making a team play in a way you want. That is evident when you watch the so called smaller teams manage to have a working system with injuries and much weaker players to choose from. A style comes from a working system, not a set of players. Do they help? Of course, but they're simply one cog in a well oiled machine, or should be. The argument smaller team coaches could have is that they have a working system but it doesn't bare enough fruit due to inadequate players. ETH has a lot of good players to utilise and three transfer windows of players bought. There is absolutely no excuse to tell me his system isn't working due to players. Maritnez has returned to the team and looks horrendous - case and point.

Injuries I grant you can play a horrible part in bad results, but should they be as damaging in the league as they are? I don't think they justify eighth. The individual errors you highlight are not player problems but again boil down to the system being played. Casemiro and Mainoo are always being left with no support centrally and teams have noticed this - they're exploiting it and ETH has no answer to it.

As I've also said before, the ongoings behind the scenes do not impact what happens on the pitch in terms of team identity. Might they impact some results now and again, sure, but they don't make a team tick. The coach is responsible for that. As I've also said, other teams in the league have no problem finding an identity whilst struggling with harder problems. Again there is no excuse.

I am claiming that Dalot is currently our best player. He's the only one performing consistently and looking good doing it. No other player can say this, so yes he's our form player by quite some distance, and he's doing it out of position. Imagine how much better he'd be playing if he was at RB. ETH fails to exploit this and instead weakens two positions on the pitch instead of one. People are starting to see the same as me, unless Maz is showing some sort of brilliance down that right flank [he isn't, he's been good] then it's surely time to move him over to be the man 'doing a job'.

As for the subs, I just don't understand them, they truly are baffling. Some come at strange times when the game is over. Other subs he should make instantly he doesn't. When we are getting dominated in midfield he chooses to do nothing until the 88th minute. It's stuff like that. This isn't one of the more major concerns though [unless a Liverpool type situation occurs] I can't be bothered to go and find the examples I'm talking about - I know they happened though.

At least you can agree that he's found no consistency and only seems to be able to set us up for one off games. That for me is a major concern. You should know this is not a coach that can win a title, as I do. His biggest run is only six games unbeaten I believe, that is pretty dire stuff. It points out exactly what we're saying, and that is he has not found a way to win with any strategy consistently.

And you're right I don't rate the man at all. I'm sick of watching this terrible football each week and being called entitled and shit like that. I don't care what people think I may be, I know the real answer to that and have been a fan for a lot longer than most of them, they don't know what support I've put in and what I've went through watching my team. I'm not going to say I'm a better fan, but I think i care more than some people here. I don't mean you by the way. I think you're always very fair.

As for the reset button - I think he got one from most fans actually, including me, but already he's just the same inconsistent coach of last season. Three out of four games lost, nobody looking like they're playing at 100% other than Dalot and for me that is telling. The team is starting to seriously doubt him IMO. They show up and put in one off performances in cup games as they know as I do that's probably the only chance of any silverware they've got.

However I am still supporting the team to my fullest when we kick off a match. I always want my team to win and disliking ETH will not change that. Deep down in there somewhere I'm hoping he does turn it around and I'm dead wrong. That does away with the problem of replacing him and starting a whole new process. Of course it's the best thing for us - but it's just not likely at this point.
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Very eruditely said. Being common, I would have put it more crudely to convey exactly the same opinion. :)
 
Dickens Cider said:
Very eruditely said. Being common, I would have put it more crudely to convey exactly the same opinion. :)
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No doubt a waste of my time though. The recognition of effort/level headed arguments is off the chart as usual.

If you're being genuine, thanks.

Maybe you might not be be a troll after all. ;p
 
I agree, it was well written with some good points.

I think we should move away from, if you don't agree with me, then you're less of a fan.

I think everybody wants the club to succeed, just have different views how.

Currently I don't think ETH will do it, but I said I would give him support this season, and I will. But we need to be honest, it's been an awful start and things need to move forward quickly. But he deserves the next run of matches, at least to see how that new midfield will be.

Also, there isn't a stand out replacement. I'm keeping an eye on De Zerbi at Marseille. 2nd at the moment, but only 3 games in. 2 wins 1 draw
 
Some differing opinions on here as always and we have differing levels of expectations from a club of United's size, I say we’ve been allowed to fall too far away from the elite level, that’s not being entitled which is a stupid term Iv seen on here a few times it’s because our standards have dropped off under the Glazers.
This is a new era starting under SJR and it’s long over due, ETH will get my support for the time being but I’ll openly call him out on here if he keeps messing up, he has to shut up about the two trophies now and take the team forward, he’s not been good enough in my opinion and the injuries have been his only excuse so far.
I hope he turns it round but Iv got my doubts.
 
JammyRed said:
Some differing opinions on here as always and we have differing levels of expectations from a club of United's size, I say we’ve been allowed to fall too far away from the elite level, that’s not being entitled which is a stupid term Iv seen on here a few times it’s because our standards have dropped off under the Glazers.
This is a new era starting under SJR and it’s long over due, ETH will get my support for the time being but I’ll openly call him out on here if he keeps messing up, he has to shut up about the two trophies now and take the team forward, he’s not been good enough in my opinion and the injuries have been his only excuse so far.
I hope he turns round but Iv got my doubts.
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Exactly. I hate that term too, "entitled" it doesn't even make any sense.

Mr C said:
I think we should move away from, if you don't agree with me, then you're less of a fan.
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I do beleive I said: "I'm not going to say I'm a better fan."

I didn't want to antagonise anyone, but...

I still stand on the point after, when I said I think I care more than some. I believe this to be true for one reason - other people here supporting ETH are happy to sit back and watch us fall down the pecking order in the Premier League on the basis of them being right. These people know who they are and write in favour of ETH no matter what.

I know this for almost a fact as when talking about the team they don't even know where Rashford plays or that the team is playing in a brand new way. How much are you really taking notice of when you don't know things like that?

I'm starting to think that they don't really care about the team, just being right. I couldn't care less about being right.

What I say comes from the heart.
 

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