Premier League 2023/24: Man City vs Man United - Sun 2nd Mar - 15:30 KO

[Mr C]

Did you watch? they were all over us from the first minute. I don't think the goal would skew the stats.

They were up for it from from the whistle, probably believing the hype they could get 6 or 7

As for the how many teams go to city and go one up, lets not forget it was a long ball from the keeper, and an amazing strike from rashford. It's not like were tore them apart.

It's difficult to know, but I imagine with a better manager in charge for nearly 2 years who's had 400m to spend, we go there and make a better go of it. He's been here nearly 2 years, and we are miles off, probably further away than when he joined

 

[jsp]

I did watch as expected City flew out the traps at us with probably on paper their best XI on the pitch. We turned up missing 3 starting players Shaw, Martinez and Hojlund and their 3 backups Malacia, Maguire and Martial also injured. It was a severely weakened Utd side and then you find out after the game that Rashford and Evans were playing with an injury and probably Bruno to. Then chuck in two teenagers into the starting XI as well and you know it's going to be a really tough day at the office.

First half from what I saw City flew at us for the first 5 minutes we then grab a goal on the break and we actually had a couple of other chances but after 15-20 minutes we were just pinned in by City and we couldn't really get out. We held on until half time thanks to some great defending, goalkeeping and a horrendous miss by Haaland.

Second half for about 20 minutes I thought we held our own, saw a bit more of the ball and managed to slow the game down a bit but the last 25 minutes once the subs were made City turned it on again, Ten Hag had to weaken his team with subs whereas Pep made his team stronger. Once they got that goal the tails were up and we were clinging on and eventually they wore us down punished the mistakes we made ruthlessly.

As for the bigger picture it does feel like at the end of this season 2 years in we will be back at square one where we started, money has been poorly spent but that needs addressing by the club not the manager.

 

[Justin Cider]

I'm amazed you all think going to city, defending our box, and kicking long to a forward is excellent tactical knowledege

The 2nd worst possesion stats, so nearly all the other teams in the league have a better go at them that we did.

Whether it's the manager or the players*, something has to change, because Ineos will get it in the ear if their first season in charge follows the same form as this year. *you can't change 25 players in one window.

On the plus side, we did better than most predicted.

On the negative side we did worse than some of us, those not in the I hope we can keep them down to single figures, predicted.

Forget possession stats, it isn't and has never been important.

 

[Mr C]

well you need possession to score, and to prevent the other team from scoring.

25% possession would suggest what we saw, a rather one sided game.

 

[Justin Cider]

I did watch as expected City flew out the traps at us with probably on paper their best XI on the pitch. We turned up missing 3 starting players Shaw, Martinez and Hojlund and their 3 backups Malacia, Maguire and Martial also injured. It was a severely weakened Utd side and then you find out after the game that Rashford and Evans were playing with an injury and probably Bruno to. Then chuck in two teenagers into the starting XI as well and you know it's going to be a really tough day at the office.

First half from what I saw City flew at us for the first 5 minutes we then grab a goal on the break and we actually had a couple of other chances but after 15-20 minutes we were just pinned in by City and we couldn't really get out. We held on until half time thanks to some great defending, goalkeeping and a horrendous miss by Haaland.

Second half for about 20 minutes I thought we held our own, saw a bit more of the ball and managed to slow the game down a bit but the last 25 minutes once the subs were made City turned it on again, Ten Hag had to weaken his team with subs whereas Pep made his team stronger. Once they got that goal the tails were up and we were clinging on and eventually they wore us down punished the mistakes we made ruthlessly.

As for the bigger picture it does feel like at the end of this season 2 years in we will be back at square one where we started, money has been poorly spent but that needs addressing by the club not the manager.

That was in our favour, no other side will expose a fullback that cant defend more than City!

 

[Justin Cider]

well you need possession to score, and to prevent the other team from scoring.

25% possession would suggest what we saw, a rather one sided game.

What was the possession count at the time Rashford scored?

Sometimes you just let your opponent have the ball, go on then let's see what you've got ....

Even if United had been at their best, and City at their worse we wouldn't have had more than 35%, let it go, it ain't relevant ....

 

[jsp]

That was in our favour, no other side will expose a fullback that cant defend more than City!

It's still a better option than asking Lindelof to go out there and defend against probably the best winger in the league at the moment.

 

[Justin Cider]

It's still a better option than asking Lindelof to go out there and defend against probably the best winger in the league at the moment.

Lindelof played well, and he's decisive, none of this well I know I should go towards him, but what if he gets passed me nonsense from Shaw ....

 

[Justin Cider]

The Sun is out, and the super Moderator is going dizzy with his haha ha's, what a time to be alive Red

 

[jsp]

Lindelof played well, and he's decisive, none of this well I know I should go towards him, but what if he gets passed me nonsense from Shaw ....

Not saying big Vic did poorly I think he did a great job in the circumstances but come on your Shaw thing is just getting a bit silly now. He's had some great games against City and while he can be a bit dozy on a bad day most of the time he's a good left back.

 

[Justin Cider]

Not saying big Vic did poorly I think he did a great job in the circumstances but come on your Shaw thing is just getting a bit silly now. He's had some great games against City and while he can be a bit dozy on a bad day most of the time he's a good left back.

We don't want good, we need great ....

He's had one very good game against City, playing CB!

 

[jsp]

We don't want good, we need great ....

He's had one very good game against City, playing CB!

So what is Lindelof at left back? Think it's a stretch to say he's good there gets an A for effort but he couldn't get anywhere near Foden yesterday.

Didn't he score one and assist one a few years back at the Etihad under Ole? I've tried to wipe most of the games against them for the last decade from my memory but yeah he had two decent games against them last season and he came on as a sub in the 6-3 hammering last season.

Not saying Shaw is amazing and if we had him we'd have rocked up and smashed them yesterday but not having a proper left back certainly factored into us having to go so defensive and be so direct from the keeper.

Having both your left sided centre back and left and both their deputies out injuries is a massive headache for any manager.

 

[Justin Cider]

So what is Lindelof at left back? Think it's a stretch to say he's good there gets an A for effort but he couldn't get anywhere near Foden yesterday.

Didn't he score one and assist one a few years back at the Etihad under Ole? I've tried to wipe most of the games against them for the last decade from my memory but yeah he had two decent games against them last season and he came on as a sub in the 6-3 hammering last season.

Not saying Shaw is amazing and if we had him we'd have rocked up and smashed them yesterday but not having a proper left back certainly factored into us having to go so defensive and be so direct from the keeper.

Having both your left sided centre back and left and both their deputies out injuries is a massive headache for any manager.

I think he did a great job in the circumstances

I'd be recommending you spend a few weeks in a padded cell if you had

Well yes, obviously. Don't think it changed how we played on Sunday though.

 

[jsp]

I think he did a great job in the circumstances

I'd be recommending you spend a few weeks in a padded cell if you had

Well yes, obviously. Don't think it changed how we played on Sunday though.

I think with a proper left back we'd probably have felt a bit more comfortable playing out from the back mixing it up a bit rather than just going long every time.

Might have allowed us to stem the flow of the attacks a bit going long means most of the time City are going to win that ball and come straight back at us.

 

[Mr C]

What was the possession count at the time Rashford scored?

Sometimes you just let your opponent have the ball, go on then let's see what you've got ....

Even if United had been at their best, and City at their worse we wouldn't have had more than 35%, let it go, it ain't relevant ....

Maybe you should drop it if you don't get it, of course possession is relevant, 2nd only to goals. If you havent got the ball you cant score.

Why would you be happy at 35%? Liverpool and Arsenal have way more than that at City.

Jeez the standards our fan base accept has hit rock bottom. Sad times

As for Rashfords goal, as good a strike as it was, it was route 1 football. Is that how you want us play?

 

[Justin Cider]

Maybe you should drop it if you don't get it, of course possession is relevant, 2nd only to goals. If you havent got the ball you cant score.

Why would you be happy at 35%? Liverpool and Arsenal have way more than that at City.

Jeez the standards our fan base accept has hit rock bottom. Sad times

As for Rashfords goal, as good a strike as it was, it was route 1 football. Is that how you want us play?

Oh go and have your afternoon nap grumpy, don't forget to take your teeth out.

 

[Mr C]

I'll put the Ovaltine on

 

[Justin Cider]

I think with a proper left back we'd probably have felt a bit more comfortable playing out from the back mixing it up a bit rather than just going long every time.

Might have allowed us to stem the flow of the attacks a bit going long means most of the time City are going to win that ball and come straight back at us.

For all his qualities going forward don't think Shaw playing would have made much difference, we'd have played the same way if we'd been at full strength, and probably got a more favourable outcome.

 

[Mr C]

I think the massive gulf between the two teams, well there were two actually.

1) Under pressure the city players were calm, they had players in space to take the ball, they clearly had patterns and were comfotable on the ball. Often our players just kicked it forward,. A few times in the first half, our wingers received the ball with their back to city's goal, and kicked the ball infield and forward (so behind them) without even looking, giving the ball back. Like a reverse inside ball.
2) I guess this affects the first, their press is phenominal.

 

[Jayc1860]

Probably hard to argue that possession is not the best way to play football. The amount of trophies/honors Pep has won using various versions of it speaks volumes. With City being arguably the best team in the world right now, they are the blueprint for success in modern football, sadly.

 

[jsp]

Of course the gap is huge. City have been building this squad since 2013 that's when the Barca boys really got their teeth into the plan they ditched Mancini got Pellegrini in while they waited for Pep but started signing players with Pep in mind and Pellegrini played a similar possession game to Pep. That squad has been assembled at huge cost but it's been built well and players who've done well for them have been moved on at the right time to fund new signings to keep it fresh.

In that period they've had 2 managers and the same board, in that period Utd have had 5 full time managers, about to appoint our 3rd CEO and 2nd "director of football"

Since ETH came in City have got better but I wouldn't say the gap between the two clubs has got any bigger. The challenge is still on Utd to become a team that can go and get 90+ points every season because that is the benchmark City have now set the rest.

 

[Mr C]

Of course the gap is huge

ok

What about the gap to Arsenal, Liverpool, probably Spurs too.

We've gone backwards. For whatever reason its irrelevant, the team are playing the worst football since Sir Alex left. (barring Ralf of course)

 

[Jayc1860]

Of course the gap is huge. City have been building this squad since 2013 that's when the Barca boys really got their teeth into the plan they ditched Mancini got Pellegrini in while they waited for Pep but started signing players with Pep in mind and Pellegrini played a similar possession game to Pep. That squad has been assembled at huge cost but it's been built well and players who've done well for them have been moved on at the right time to fund new signings to keep it fresh.

In that period they've had 2 managers and the same board, in that period Utd have had 5 full time managers, about to appoint our 3rd CEO and 2nd "director of football"

Since ETH came in City have got better but I wouldn't say the gap between the two clubs has got any bigger. The challenge is still on Utd to become a team that can go and get 90+ points every season because that is the benchmark City have now set the rest.

The gap between to two clubs is light-years.

C'mon...

 

[jsp]

The gap between to two clubs is light-years.

C'mon...

Where have I said the gap isn't massive?

My point is the gap hasn't got bigger in the last 2 years it's pretty much stayed the same.

They've set the bar incredibly high and everyone is chasing them including us.

I think the club has made some progress in 2 years I think a lot of "problem" players are now gone the ego's and wasters are pretty much all gone but the players we've signed to replace them have been to hit and miss.

Hopefully the new directors will help improve that decision making process and the manager whoever it is will have a much better squad to work with as I still look at that squad and think there's some huge gaps that need filling.

 

[Jayc1860]

I think the club has gone backwards in these two years personally, and the gap has definitely widened.

The proof is that we set out yesterday simply not to lose 6-0. That was the plan. This should never be the plan of Manchetser United. I actually agreed with this plan because playing the way ETH normally does, we would have gotten a battering not yet seen in the derby ever.... yes it would of been that bad. Sutton may well have gotten his score correct, but me personally I think it would have been even worse.

 

[JammyRed]

I think the club has gone backwards in these two years personally, and the gap has definitely widened.

The proof is that we set out yesterday simply not to lose 6-0. That was the plan. This should never be the plan of Manchetser United. I actually agreed with this plan because playing the way ETH normally does, we would have gotten a battering not yet seen in the derby ever.... yes it would of been that bad. Sutton may well have gotten his score correct, but me personally I think it would have been even worse.

We were set up for damage limitation and even at 1 up you could see that it wasn’t likely to end well unless City had a bad day.

 

[Justin Cider]

The gap between to two clubs is light-years.

C'mon...

115 light-years, you gotta laff.

 

[Jayc1860]

115 light-years, you gotta laff.

Equalling... 678.5 trillion miles. Sounds about right.

We were set up for damage limitation and even at 1 up you could see that it wasn’t likely to end well unless City had a bad day.

Yep. It wasn't a comfortable watch, and I'm someone who has seen it all at the club, the good the bad, and the ugly..... yet this was new. We showed them far too much respect to be honest.

 

[Justin Cider]

I think the club has gone backwards in these two years personally, and the gap has definitely widened.

The proof is that we set out yesterday simply not to lose 6-0. That was the plan. This should never be the plan of Manchetser United. I actually agreed with this plan because playing the way ETH normally does, we would have gotten a battering not yet seen in the derby ever.... yes it would of been that bad. Sutton may well have gotten his score correct, but me personally I think it would have been even worse.

Did we really change how we normally play, or did it just look like that because City had the lions share of possession, as expected.

 

[Jayc1860]

Did we really change how we normally play, or did it just look like that because City had the lions share of possession, as expected.

Yeah I noted the formation and style I saw playing earlier in the thread.

Christmas tree 4-3-2-1 on paper, looked more like a 4-3-3 on the pitch, with the front three interchanging a bit, but the idea was Bruno as a false 9, with Garnacho and Rashford the width. Leaving 7 players behind the ball at most times, and even then our front three was operating from our own half for 95% of the game.

Park the bus!

At least he tried something new which shows he understood we could not beat them playing the grand canyon tactic.

 

[Justin Cider]

Yeah I noted the formation and style I saw playing earlier in the thread.

Christmas tree 4-3-2-1 on paper, looked more like a 4-3-3 on the pitch, with the front three interchanging a bit, but the idea was Bruno as a false 9, with Garnacho and Rashford the width. Leaving 7 players behind the ball at most times, and even then our front three was operating from our own half for 95% of the game.

Park the bus!

At least he tried something new which shows he understood we could not beat them playing the grand canyon tactic.

Or he's an avid reader of this here forum and he's seen mwah banging on about us playing a false-nine, you never know ....

 

[Jayc1860]

Or he's an avid reader of this here forum and he's seen mwah banging on about us playing a false-nine, you never know ....

I'd prefer him to get inventive against all teams though, and change things. I think nearly all of our fan base would get behind that. If I watched him having a go with different formations and styles like Pep does. We see even the master doesn't get it right all of the time but he keeps adapting and trying new things. Pep has tried maybe 4-5 different formations with I think at least three of them working.... just try something is my point. I'd fully support that.

 

[jsp]

I think the club has gone backwards in these two years personally, and the gap has definitely widened.

The proof is that we set out yesterday simply not to lose 6-0. That was the plan. This should never be the plan of Manchetser United. I actually agreed with this plan because playing the way ETH normally does, we would have gotten a battering not yet seen in the derby ever.... yes it would of been that bad. Sutton may well have gotten his score correct, but me personally I think it would have been even worse.

The season before he came in we finished 35 points behind City, last season the gap was 14 the current gap is 18. No one is saying those numbers are good but I’d be surprised if we end this season 35 points behind City again.

Can’t argue that we’ve gone backwards this season but if you look at where we started and where we are now I think there’s been progress just not as much as we would have hoped.

 

[IDFD]

The season before he came in we finished 35 points behind City, last season the gap was 14 the current gap is 18. No one is saying those numbers are good but I’d be surprised if we end this season 35 points behind City again.

Can’t argue that we’ve gone backwards this season but if you look at where we started and where we are now I think there’s been progress just not as much as we would have hoped.

Why do you still try to reason with someone who’s decided ETH is the issue and nothing else is the problem other than Bruno for being Portuguese.

We have the best manager we’ve had post Fergie. The stats prove it the football proves it. But he’s not a glory name to people will criticise him.

But it’s a waste of time and you’re better off banging your head against the wall than interacting with it. I have little doubt had we won yesterday you’d get comments that it was inspite of the manager. They wanted us to go toe to toe with the best club in the world. Had we done that they’d have moaned we lost by 4+ and ETH didn’t change his tactics to suit the game. (That was the problem they had before)

 

[Mr C]

Wow