Premier League 2022/23: Crystal Palace vs Man Utd ~ Wed 18th Jan 8pm KO

jsp

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You were happy enough with it on Saturday

VAR did not get involved on Saturday. The ref over ruled the assistant as he deemed that a Rashford didn’t interfere. Pretty much everyone agrees the offside rule is stupid but by the rule it’s a goal.

The point of VAR was to get decisions right and if we are just saying sometimes it goes for you sometimes against then why bother having it? All the clear and obvious nonsense. On that decision they should have one question which is was it a foul? Yes or No!
 

EtHagArmy

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But for a brilliant free kick we would have left London with the points tonight having lost Casemiro for the Arsenal game and that would have been a decent Risk v Gain result.
Now EtH doesn't know what he is doing, Casemiro is the culprit for making a challenge on Palace's main goal threat around our area which may have resulted in a goal had he not etc...
Get ready for the Arsenal, do them, and all is well with the world again.
 

jsp

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De Gea 8
AWB 8
Varane 7
Martinez 7
Shaw 7
Eriksen 7
Casemiro 7
Anthony 4
Bruno 5
Rashford 4
Weghorst 5

McTominay 5
Garnacho 5
Fred 6

That’s my rating the back 6 and the keeper were good but the attacking players let us down tonight. They all had an off night poor as individuals and a collective.
 

EtHagArmy

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VAR did not get involved on Saturday. The ref over ruled the assistant as he deemed that a Rashford didn’t interfere. Pretty much everyone agrees the offside rule is stupid but by the rule it’s a goal.

The point of VAR was to get decisions right and if we are just saying sometimes it goes for you sometimes against then why bother having it? All the clear and obvious nonsense. On that decision they should have one question which is was it a foul? Yes or No!
Agreed. I guess I am just saying that we are still in the, some you get some you dont age and as you say that deems VAR useless
 

jsp

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Agreed. I guess I am just saying that we are still in the, some you get some you dont age and as you say that deems VAR useless

I think it should be binned if we are still getting big decisions like that wrong then it’s a massive waste of time and money.

The experiment failed.

Game is worse for it as no one in the ground has a clue what is going on, because of VAR the handball and offside rules are now a mess and we end up with loads of needless added time.

I much preferred having to take crap decisions on the chin.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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VAR should be used like the DRS in cricket. Each team gets 2 referrals with the conversation between the VAR room and referee broadcast on air and in the stadium. 30 seconds or it isn’t obvious enough to change the on pitch decision. You win your referral you keep it. Don’t, and you lose it.

I’d love to have heard why VAR didn’t think McTominay was fouled in the box.
 

EtHagArmy

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I think it should be binned if we are still getting big decisions like that wrong then it’s a massive waste of time and money.

The experiment failed.

Game is worse for it as no one in the ground has a clue what is going on, because of VAR the handball and offside rules are now a mess and we end up with loads of needless added time.

I much preferred having to take crap decisions on the chin.
I do agree, however I was all for using technology its just that they have decided to use it all wrong.
The time came some years ago where my mind was, there was too much at stake in the game these days for fundamental human error and technology should assist. This was reinforced by my embarrassment, sorry joy, when Roy Carroll scooped the ball out the net against Spurs.
But the technology is being used in ridiculous fashion, splitting hairs with offside decisions etc.....
It makes me swear!!
 

EtHagArmy

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I’d love to have heard why VAR didn’t think McTominay was fouled in the box.
I would love to hear how anyone can possibly draw the remotest of comparisons to cricket (the snorefest and natural depressant of world sport) and football (the world sport of joy and happiness). Keep your cricket rules to yourself if you dont mind.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I would love to hear how anyone can possibly draw the remotest of comparisons to cricket (the snorefest and natural depressant of world sport) and football (the world sport of joy and happiness). Keep your cricket rules to yourself if you dont mind.
Because it solves the problems you just complained about. No splitting hairs over every offside decision because managers aren’t going to risk losing their review over a 50-50 call, and if it can’t be decided in 30 sec the call stands. No more obvious decisions being bungled and it would force referees to give an explanation and might help clarify what is and what isn’t a pen or a handball offence. At the very least it’d force the referees to be on the same page and apply the same standard.
 

Justin Cider

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Still think he's the guy to bring the glory days back but EtH fecked up big style from the start with his selection to the finish last night, by risking Casemiro in a game where his luck was always gonna run-out he might as well have put an advert in the M.E.N saying he didn't trust McTominay or Fred, and then around the hour mark where we were in control(if not totally), and it was obvious we didn't have the legs on the pitch to push home the advantage he waited and waited and waited ....

And on the penalty, if it was a penalty, and it was, it was a clear and obvious mistake by the Ref, so the decision should have been overturned.

And on Casemiro it's not like we'll be missing Bryan Robson for the next match but at the minute it feels like it, and it was slightly disturbing it seemed to affect the players on the pitch, they need to snap out of that sharpish.

Martinez comfortably our best player, the rest looked gassed after an hour, something for EtH to think about.
 

Justin Cider

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Right i've had a still of Varane showing his appreciation of the travelling fans on pause for over an hour, and i'm gonna have to force myself to listen to the nonsense from the studio guests now ....

It can't be any worse than what's been posted online, or could it!?
 

Justin Cider

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Right i've had a still of Varane showing his appreciation of the travelling fans on pause for over an hour, and i'm gonna have to force myself to listen to the nonsense from the studio guests now ....

It can't be any worse than what's been posted online, or could it!?

Nope can't do it.

Anybody else think De Gea fecked up with his positioning on the late free-kick and his lining up of the wall, that shot was only going one place, so why give him ¾ of the goal to aim at, schoolboy stuff.
 

Justin Cider

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Couldn't have gone any worse for United said Jamie Redknapp.

Yeah cos if Fred had come on and picked up a yellow and joined Casemiro in being unavailable for the Arsenal match, Zaha had scored a last-minute winner and Rashford had broke his leg it would have been better for United I guess.
 

SuperRash

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I would love to hear how anyone can possibly draw the remotest of comparisons to cricket (the snorefest and natural depressant of world sport) and football (the world sport of joy and happiness). Keep your cricket rules to yourself if you dont mind.
Keep your opinions on cricket to yourself if you don’t mind. It’s a brilliant and entertaining sport!
 

jsp

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I do agree, however I was all for using technology its just that they have decided to use it all wrong.
The time came some years ago where my mind was, there was too much at stake in the game these days for fundamental human error and technology should assist. This was reinforced by my embarrassment, sorry joy, when Roy Carroll scooped the ball out the net against Spurs.
But the technology is being used in ridiculous fashion, splitting hairs with offside decisions etc.....
It makes me swear!!

Thing is technology works incredibly well for the goal line stuff and to be fair it works well for offsides. These are black and white calls the ball is either in or out but when it's being used for subjective calls I don't think it works especially when officials are being encouraged not to use it.

In terms of what is at stake there really isn't a lot at stake it's a game of football not life and death. It's entertainment so it should really be for the benefit of the viewers be that at the ground or watching on TV. Has it made the product better? I really don't think it has.

This high bar for changing a decision to me makes no sense the VAR is there to use the technology to judge if the decision on field was correct. How the VAR didn't send the ref over to the monitor last night is beyond me, if they're not double checking that then what is the point?
 

RVN

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Thing is technology works incredibly well for the goal line stuff and to be fair it works well for offsides. These are black and white calls the ball is either in or out but when it's being used for subjective calls I don't think it works especially when officials are being encouraged not to use it.

In terms of what is at stake there really isn't a lot at stake it's a game of football not life and death. It's entertainment so it should really be for the benefit of the viewers be that at the ground or watching on TV. Has it made the product better? I really don't think it has.

This high bar for changing a decision to me makes no sense the VAR is there to use the technology to judge if the decision on field was correct. How the VAR didn't send the ref over to the monitor last night is beyond me, if they're not double checking that then what is the point?
Agree, VAR should be used to correct key errors, and the words clear and obvious should be removed from the rulebook.
 

EtHagArmy

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Because it solves the problems you just complained about. No splitting hairs over every offside decision because managers aren’t going to risk losing their review over a 50-50 call, and if it can’t be decided in 30 sec the call stands. No more obvious decisions being bungled and it would force referees to give an explanation and might help clarify what is and what isn’t a pen or a handball offence. At the very least it’d force the referees to be on the same page and apply the same standard.
Ah maybe your right I just know nothing of cricket
 

EtHagArmy

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Thing is technology works incredibly well for the goal line stuff and to be fair it works well for offsides. These are black and white calls the ball is either in or out but when it's being used for subjective calls I don't think it works especially when officials are being encouraged not to use it.

In terms of what is at stake there really isn't a lot at stake it's a game of football not life and death. It's entertainment so it should really be for the benefit of the viewers be that at the ground or watching on TV. Has it made the product better? I really don't think it has.

This high bar for changing a decision to me makes no sense the VAR is there to use the technology to judge if the decision on field was correct. How the VAR didn't send the ref over to the monitor last night is beyond me, if they're not double checking that then what is the point?
Well I think it works truly awful for offsides. It is splitting hairs in ridiculous fashion and highlights that the offside rule needs changing. It should be about the positioning of the feet, nothing else. This business of his elbow was protruding, his nose was in front etc is truly ridiculous. When a forward is positioning himself to avoid being offside is he thinking about these parts of his anatomy? Is the defender trying to outsmart the forwards elbow? Get real, it should all be about the feet.
Wouldn't surprise me if sometime soon we get news that the technology was flawed, wasn't drawing up the lines correctly and the whole thing has been a clusterf*ck
 

jsp

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Well I think it works truly awful for offsides. It is splitting hairs in ridiculous fashion and highlights that the offside rule needs changing. It should be about the positioning of the feet, nothing else. This business of his elbow was protruding, his nose was in front etc is truly ridiculous. When a forward is positioning himself to avoid being offside is he thinking about these parts of his anatomy? Is the defender trying to outsmart the forwards elbow? Get real, it should all be about the feet.
Wouldn't surprise me if sometime soon we get news that the technology was flawed, wasn't drawing up the lines correctly and the whole thing has been a clusterf*ck

They have adjusted that slightly to give a bit more margin to the attacking players and it has improved in the last year. They now say if the lines are touching then it goes to the attacking side. The decisions certainly seem to be coming through quicker but for the first few years it was a mess.

I still think it’s a mess on fouls either penalty or red cards, it isn’t there to over rule refs it is there to get decisions right but they don’t seem willing to use it that way.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I think Howard Webb has brought in a different interpretation of how VAR should be used, and the standard necessary for it to intervene. Which is the problem in a nutshell. The line keeps moving, and what was a foul in Sept isn’t by January. There’s no explanation or justification for it, just suddenly calls are or aren’t being made as they once were.

Re offsides; I think automated offside calls are coming soon, which would make a massive difference…if they can work the bloody laws out.
 

jsp

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I think Howard Webb has brought in a different interpretation of how VAR should be used, and the standard necessary for it to intervene. Which is the problem in a nutshell. The line keeps moving, and what was a foul in Sept isn’t by January. There’s no explanation or justification for it, just suddenly calls are or aren’t being made as they once were.

Re offsides; I think automated offside calls are coming soon, which would make a massive difference…if they can work the bloody laws out.

Yeah basically Howard Webb has said he only wants things referred to VAR if it's a clear error if they decide it's a marginal decision then you stick with the original decision.

Even by that threshold I still can't get my head around the McTominay penalty that is as obvious a foul as you will see all season.
 

Justin Cider

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No mention of the blatant elbow on Martinez either, why VAR didn't inform the Referee he might want to look at that again is just plain wrong.

The sooner they knock VAR on the head the better for me.
 

jsp

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I think there was enough room to say that was accidental.

If that's a red card then so was the tackle by Casemiro to me both were yellow cards but on another day with a stricter ref both could be red cards. Obviously Palace going down to 10 men in the first half changes the game a lot more than Utd maybe hanging on for 15 minutes at the end with 10 men.

The penalty is just a massive howler other managers would have been straight on to that in the post game. ETH seemed to be happy to move on quickly from it.
 

RVN

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Yeah basically Howard Webb has said he only wants things referred to VAR if it's a clear error if they decide it's a marginal decision then you stick with the original decision.

Even by that threshold I still can't get my head around the McTominay penalty that is as obvious a foul as you will see all season.
Exactly. You can't have VAR in place and STILL get decisions wrong. It renders VAR useless, as you'd begrudgingly accept clear decisions that did not go your way pre-VAR, but now it is so frustrating that with VAR, incorrect decisions are not overturned and referees are not advised often enough to go and have a look at the incident on the monitor.
 

RVN

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The penalty is just a massive howler other managers would have been straight on to that in the post game. ETH seemed to be happy to move on quickly from it.
It was like he was refusing to give the players a 'get out of jail free' card. He wanted to make it clear that the performance was unacceptable and he expects more.
 

jsp

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Exactly. You can't have VAR in place and STILL get decisions wrong. It renders VAR useless, as you'd begrudgingly accept clear decisions that did not go your way pre-VAR, but now it is so frustrating that with VAR, incorrect decisions are not overturned and referees are not advised often enough to go and have a look at the incident on the monitor.

I think you can still get things "wrong" most decisions in football are subjective especially when it comes to fouls but if we have VAR refs need to be encouraged to use it to check that they've made the right call. That penalty decision has to go to the monitor as it's so bloody obvious that it's a foul.

I have yet to see one pundit, ex player, fan etc come out and say that isn't a penalty so surely the ref will be dropped for a few games for missing that and the PGMOL will include that decision in their next list of bad decisions. To me that one wasn't a 50/50 call it was a 100% penalty.

We can probably add on to that Palace stealing 5-10 yards on the free kick they scored from. I can sort of forgive that it's always hard to spot the ball exactly where the foul happened but still that's twice this season where Utd have conceded from free kicks where the ref hasn't marked the locations properly.
 

jsp

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Sorry, not having that, it was blatant, he knew exactly what he was doing.

He didnt look over his shoulder, line him up and swing it.

The arm was out to protect and Martinez ran into it.

None of the players made a big deal about it they know when someone does it on purpose, that was an accident.
 

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