Premier League 2021/22: Man Utd vs Norwich ~ Sat 16th Apr 3pm KO

Justin Cider

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Not this time. Pool absolutly need to win to keep pressuring City for a mistake, to go past them. I can't see them dropping any point at home. All i want from Ralf is the courage to play 433 to evaluate your players in the correct system against top opposition instead of playing to save face and inevitably lose.

Just gotta try and keep it tight for as long as possible and play on their nerves, but if we concede early it will be a very long night with another drubbing likely. And I feel sick just typing that last bit.

Maybe the United fans should protest and try and get the game called off, that would make the night interesting.
 

Lordkluivert

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Just gotta try and keep it tight for as long as possible and play on their nerves, but if we concede early it will be a very long night with another drubbing likely. And I feel sick just typing that last bit.

Maybe the United fans should protest and try and get the game called off, that would make the night interesting.
I don't want to keep it tight. I want to play football the proper way to know who is good and who is bad in your team. I think it's more important for the next manager to get real informations about your players, than to play for an hypotetical point. We doesn't deserve top 4, so play the remaining game to identify the players that can adapt to the 433 formation. Atleast that will help the first summer window of the new manager, instead of wasting time, reevaluating the players during the summer tour.
 

Justin Cider

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I don't want to keep it tight. I want to play football the proper way to know who is good and who is bad in your team. I think it's more important for the next manager to get real informations about your players, than to play for an hypotetical point. We doesn't deserve top 4, so play the remaining game to identify the players that can adapt to the 433 formation. Atleast that will help the first summer window of the new manager, instead of wasting time, reevaluating the players during the summer tour.

Nah that's just asking for trouble. Saying that i'd love to see Mejbri getting a run-out in place of Pogba, a few minutes for Garnacho and Fernandez at the end wouldn't do them much harm either, whatever the score if any when they came on.
 

boothstownred

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I don't want to keep it tight. I want to play football the proper way to know who is good and who is bad in your team. I think it's more important for the next manager to get real informations about your players, than to play for an hypotetical point. We doesn't deserve top 4, so play the remaining game to identify the players that can adapt to the 433 formation. Atleast that will help the first summer window of the new manager, instead of wasting time, reevaluating the players during the summer tour.
You will absolutely devastated if the new guy does not play 4-3-3 wont you.
 

Lordkluivert

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You will absolutely devastated if the new guy does not play 4-3-3 wont you.
Of course. I am realistic. 433 is the only way to go. Pool, City and Real play it and are the favorite every year for the CL. I chose to not pretend to be smarter than them and play a system that proved it's superiority. Even the great SAF lost to Barça because of it.
 

Justin Cider

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Of course. I am realistic. 433 is the only way to go. Pool, City and Real play it and are the favorite every year for the CL. I chose to not pretend to be smarter than them and play a system that proved it's superiority. Even the great SAF lost to Barça because of it.

It's a fad, can see more teams moving to a 3-4-3 in the very near future. Not sure United have currently got the players for it mind.
 

Lordkluivert

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It's a fad, can see more teams moving to a 3-4-3 in the very near future. Not sure United have currently got the players for it mind.
343 is good, yet not balanced. This system suffer big time again counter attack. Chelsea an Bayern lost because of it. I advise you to stop searching for an other solution, when the truth is there to see since the Barça of Guardiola. If you look back in time, Real was also stuborn and refused to copy the system, but they lost and eventually changed there mind and got sucess. Spain adopted the system and won the lot. Klopp adopted the system after Couthinio and won the lot. Guardiola keep his system at Bayern and City and won the lot. So the question for United should be, how to get a better 433 formation than Pool, City, Real in order to beat them at there own game, and nothing else. If you want to go exotic with 343 or 4231 you are only prepared to lose big time against them.
 

jsp

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Bayern havent been playing 4-3-3 for years because they play Muller as a number 10 in behind Lewendowski.
 

boothstownred

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I have never really watched a huge amount of continental football but didnt Real play Isco as a 10 behind Benzema and Ronaldo.
Personally I have no issue with 4 3 3 but to me the players you have determine the formation you play.
 

Lordkluivert

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Bayern havent been playing 4-3-3 for years because they play Muller as a number 10 in behind Lewendowski.
Excatly, and they have not won a CL for years. There last chance they got destroyer by Barca on the counter, who play 433. Even Klopp manager to win the championship with inferior players for time to time. This year they have pushed it on antoher level with only 3 CB at the back and have been counter by Villarreal. Only Chelsea manager to win with 3 at the back with prime Kante in midfield, but suddenly Bayern decided it will be good for them. They were terribly wrong. This formation can only work if you have a CM with 2 lungs who can attack and track back like lightning on the counter. Only prime Kante could do this, no other.
 

Lordkluivert

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I have never really watched a huge amount of continental football but didnt Real play Isco as a 10 behind Benzema and Ronaldo.
Personally I have no issue with 4 3 3 but to me the players you have determine the formation you play.
No, they started winning when Zidane introduced Casemiro in the midfield, ditching Isco to the wing or on the bench and play in the middle with Casemiro, Kroos and Modric. They got great sucess in this period and it's still the case now. I think it's nostalgy that make people believe that you can play with a 10 this day. But for me it's complete luxury. 2 box to box as 8 and CDM as 6 will always be better and more balanced than any system than include a 10.
 

IDFD

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There is very little difference between the 4-2-3-1 and the 4-3-3. Especially with Bruno in the side.

Bruno is often back in our own half defending. The guy covers more distance than most for us. To pretend he's this lazy #10 is rubbish. It's nothing like have an Isco or Mata in that position.
 

boothstownred

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Excatly, and they have not won a CL for years. There last chance they got destroyer by Barca on the counter, who play 433. Even Klopp manager to win the championship with inferior players for time to time. This year they have pushed it on antoher level with only 3 CB at the back and have been counter by Villarreal. Only Chelsea manager to win with 3 at the back with prime Kante in midfield, but suddenly Bayern decided it will be good for them. They were terribly wrong. This formation can only work if you have a CM with 2 lungs who can attack and track back like lightning on the counter. Only prime Kante could do this, no other.
Didnt Bayern win it 2 years ago
 

Lordkluivert

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There is very little difference between the 4-2-3-1 and the 4-3-3. Especially with Bruno in the side.

Bruno is often back in our own half defending. The guy covers more distance than most for us. To pretend he's this lazy #10 is rubbish. It's nothing like have an Isco or Mata in that position.
I agree that Bruno has a engine, but he is always too close to Ronaldo in a 4231, leaving Fred and Mctom alone against 3 midfielders. Basically what i have seen often is Bruno or someone else loose the ball high up, the CDM of the opposite team push high with his two 8 going for the counter. The result his that the opposition play in triangle around Fred and Mctom and get past them easily because they outnumber them. Bruno track back but not fast enought to disrupte the counter. It's not his fault because most of the time when we attack, the defense doesn't push high to close the gap, leaving way too much space when the ball turn. Also when the ball turn, the first reflex of McGuire is to back off, increasing the space in the midfield.
 

Lordkluivert

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Didnt Bayern win it 2 years ago
My Bad. I completly forget there win against PSG. I didn't take PSG seriously. Anyway, when i talk about winning, i mean a period of dominance not a one off. Basically, winning or finishing near the champion in your championship and going to quarter or semi every year in the CL. I can't take Bundesliga seriously since Klopp left because the difference between Bayern and the rest is huge. The others are usualy the feeder of Bayern.
 

boothstownred

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If the new guy comes in and says he wants to play 4 3 3 and in order to do that he feels he needs to get rid of Bruno I would support him. Equally if he were to come in and say he views Bruno as the best number 10 in the world and is going to bring players in to supplement that, I would also support him. In truth the same goes for any formation. For me the best formation for the players we have currently is 4 2 3 1.

That said a new broom sweeps clean and this is the right opportunity for the new manager to bring in the players that suits his style of management.
 

jsp

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They’ve won it twice in the last decade both times playing 4-2-3-1 under Pep and his 4-3-3 they never made the final.

sometimes you have to pick the system to suit the players you’ve got Tuchel didn’t play 3-4-3 until he came to Chelsea and realised the back 3 suited his centre back and his full backs were better suited to being wing backs.

I expect it’s more about how you play rather than the system are Utd going to be a more aggressive team i expect so and I also expect them to target players who can move the ball quickly and retain possession.
 

Justin Cider

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343 is good, yet not balanced. This system suffer big time again counter attack. Chelsea an Bayern lost because of it. I advise you to stop searching for an other solution, when the truth is there to see seen the Barça of Guardiola. If you look back in time, Real was also stuborn and refused to copy the system, but they lost and eventually changed there mind and got sucess. Spain adopted the system and won the lot. Klopp adopted the system after Couthinio and won the lot. Guardiola keep his system at Bayern and City and won the lot. So the question for United should be, how to get a better 433 formation than Pool, City, Real in order to beat them at there own game, and nothing else. If you want to go exotic with 343 or 4231 you are only prepared to lose big time against them.

Okay thanks, what a waste of time that was eh?
 

Justin Cider

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Excatly, and they have not won a CL for years. There last chance they got destroyer by Barca on the counter, who play 433. Even Klopp manager to win the championship with inferior players for time to time. This year they have pushed it on antoher level with only 3 CB at the back and have been counter by Villarreal. Only Chelsea manager to win with 3 at the back with prime Kante in midfield, but suddenly Bayern decided it will be good for them. They were terribly wrong. This formation can only work if you have a CM with 2 lungs who can attack and track back like lightning on the counter. Only prime Kante could do this, no other.

I'd hazard a guess most footballers have two lungs, though there are one or two in the current squad where that may not be true.
 

Lordkluivert

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I'd hazard a guess most footballers have two lungs, though there are one or two in the current squad where that may not be true.
I thing you understand my meaning. Kante is the only player i have seen, that can go from attack to defence in a split second at full trottle. No one else has this ability. Rewatch some comp of Kante at Leicester when he was played as a CM. This ability was the true reason why they hit so many time on the counter. It was unstopable. Sadly since his recent injury he lost this ability.
 

Justin Cider

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I thing you understand my meaning. Kante is the only player i have seen, that can go from attack to defence in a split second at full trottle. No one else has this ability. Rewatch some comp of Kante at Leicester when he was played as a CM. This ability was the true reason why they hit so many time on the counter. It was unstopable. Sadly since his recent injury he lost this ability.

I'm joshing mate, just reminded me of the time I posted on RedCafe a few years back defending JSP saying his stamina level were phenomenal, and I said i'm sure he's got two lungs.
 

IDFD

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Spain won the lot playing 4-3-3?

Your definition of a 4-3-3 is very different to mine then.

As Spain didn't play a single forward in the 2012 final.

It was more of a 4-2-4-0. I've seen others call it a 4-1-2-3. But to try and claim it was an orthodox 4-3-3 is ludicrous. The front 3 of Silva, Iniesta and Fabregas? Whilst Torres, Villa and Pedro sat on the bench when an orthodox 4-3-3 would be crying out for a CF and Wingers?
 

Lordkluivert

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Spain won the lot playing 4-3-3?

Your definition of a 4-3-3 is very different to mine then.

As Spain didn't play a single forward in the 2012 final.

It was more of a 4-2-4-0. I've seen others call it a 4-1-2-3. But to try and claim it was an orthodox 4-3-3 is ludicrous. The front 3 of Silva, Iniesta and Fabregas? Whilst Torres, Villa and Pedro sat on the bench when an orthodox 4-3-3 would be crying out for a CF and Wingers?
I'm talking about 2010, when they were full of Barça players.
 

boothstownred

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Either way it seems that trophies and tournaments were won plenty of times with teams playing other formations than 4 3 3. As I said before if the new guy comes in and wants to play that formation he should be backed to do so, but it isn't a forgone conclusion either way
 

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