Pre Season 2024/25

[RichH2016]

How so? I would say it is better even if we have only made a couple of signings. We now have a back up striker who isn’t named Martial. We have youngsters who are a year older and experienced. Amad will play far more than last year and we have Sancho back (I guess who knows for how long). Also fingers crossed we won’t lose Martinez and Shaw for large parts of the season.

The squad is nowhere near perfect but for me it’s already better equipped.

You’ve also lost experienced players and you are light at CB and CM. I think to rely on Shaw to stay healthy at this point is a reach and Martinez too has struggled to stay healthy.

Amad looks decent sure but you still don’t know his true ceiling and Sancho? I mean if he does end up staying that’s not really a player to rely on to give you guys much.

 

[RichH2016]

Right now you’ve got nobody fully healthy to play LB and your back up RB is still AWB. At CB you have to play Maguire and Martinez and hope they stay healthy.

In midfield I mean the options are bad asides from Mainoo. Casemiro is another year older and you’ve lost depth in Ambrabat.

In attack sure maybe just maybe you are better off? With Martial gone but then Zirkee is an unknown and Hojlund has had his own injury issues over the past year.

I’d be stunned if you guys finished top 4 as things currently stand.

 

[IDFD]

I mean it would take some doing for you guys to be as bad as last year. But I’m also not sure you will finish much higher in the table either.

City, Arsenal and Liverpool and pretty much guaranteed to finish above you. I’d say that Villa and Spurs should too. Newcastle will be an interesting one and who knows with Chelsea I mean they are all over the place.

Right now your first XI isn’t any better and your squad overall is probably worse.

I'd happily take that bet with you on any of Villa Liverpool Spurs Newcastle and Chelsea. I feel you are not taking in to account that their teams also haven't improved and have significantly weakened in some cases.

Also our starting 11 has improved. We missed 2 of our starting 11 for pretty much the entire season that is gojng to make a big difference. I dont think you realise just how big having Martinez back for it is Mainoo missed the first half of the season and now is a maturer player moving forwards. Hojlund has a year of prem experience under his belt. Yoro has come in.

Think you are massively under valuing the effect Klopp leaving will have. Didn't rate him as highly as a manager as you've previously said?

What have I missed Tottenham do this summer? Must be missing something. Because the back end of last season it was shown everyone has worked Ange out.

 

[Jayc1860]

Not going to lie, I am worried about Shaw and Martinez ruining another season. They're both made out of glass. It's a real worry. If either get significant injuries again they've got to be deemed useless. Martinez's problem is his bullish style of play. When you play like this being his size there is only one outcome. Unless the coach tells him to mix up his style he's never going to be fit. People will put it all down to a bad surgery or bad luck, but it's not that. It's the fact that he is stupid.

Agree about Liverpool. The Klopp effect will be huge. They're not pushing Arsenal or City this year.

 

[jsp]

I mean it would take some doing for you guys to be as bad as last year. But I’m also not sure you will finish much higher in the table either.

City, Arsenal and Liverpool and pretty much guaranteed to finish above you. I’d say that Villa and Spurs should too. Newcastle will be an interesting one and who knows with Chelsea I mean they are all over the place.

Right now your first XI isn’t any better and your squad overall is probably worse.

I'm not convinced on Liverpool think they massively over achieved last season their performances were nowhere near as impressive as City/Arsenal and with Klopp gone they could easily spiral.

Outside Arsenal/City who I think will run clear at the top everyone else from 3rd to 8th last season could finish anywhere from 3rd to 8th this season to me it's a wide open field there's so many unanswered questions for everyone. Newcastle haven't lost any key players and no Europe could be a big factor for them as Howe doesn't have a massive squad and he asks them to play a very intense style.

I'd say starting XI wise we are slightly weaker. Varane gone and Casemiro another 12 months older but squad is probably a bit better but still requires a lot of improvement.

 

[JammyRed]

Great player when fit but Varane misses too many games he won’t be missed, Case is a problem though his legs are creaking and he’s making a lot of mistakes now he should have been one of the priorities to move on.
He was left out of the team against City in the final and we were better for it.

 

[RichH2016]

I guess time will tell I just feel that you guys (as all fans do) overrate their own players.

I don’t think there are any United players who make the City team. Not many who make the Arsenal team and only a handful who might make the Liverpool team.

You’re level and competition right now is with Villa, Spurs and Newcastle. And Chelsea if they get it together (but early signs are that they won’t be this season).

 

[Justin Cider]

I guess time will tell I just feel that you guys (as all fans do) overrate their own players.

I don’t think there are any United players who make the City team. Not many who make the Arsenal team and only a handful who might make the Liverpool team.

You’re level and competition right now is with Villa, Spurs and Newcastle. And Chelsea if they get it together (but early signs are that they won’t be this season).

Provocative much

Rashford, Mount, Shaw, Garnacho, Martinez, Hojlund and Mainoo on blob all walk into City's team.

 

[SuperRash]

Provocative much

Rashford, Mount, Shaw, Garnacho, Martinez, Hojlund and Mainoo on blob all walk into City's team.

Easy tiger. While Rich is mostly talking cuckoo, a few of those wouldn’t get into City starting XI.

 

[Justin Cider]

Easy tiger. While Rich is mostly talking cuckoo, a few of those wouldn’t get into City starting XI.

Okay i'll take Shaw out ....

 

[IDFD]

Shaw is one of the few that does.

 

[RichH2016]

Provocative much

Rashford, Mount, Shaw, Garnacho, Martinez, Hojlund and Mainoo on blob all walk into City's team.

Hilarious!

Rashford definitely does not. Mount? He wouldn’t make their bench. Shaw yeah he would but he’s never fit. Garnacho he’d be a good bench / squad player for them. Martinez nope he can’t stay healthy. Hojlund definitely not. Mainoo would be the only guaranteed starter.

I’m not being provocative I’m being honest and I’m saying how it is without rose tinted glasses.

 

[RichH2016]

Easy tiger. While Rich is mostly talking cuckoo, a few of those wouldn’t get into City starting XI.

Nothing cuckoo about what I said my friend nothing at all. Just cold hard reality which you guys don’t like.

 

[Jayc1860]

Nothing cuckoo about what I said my friend nothing at all. Just cold hard reality which you guys don’t like.

You should see the Onana and Bruno ratings from last season.

They're insane.

The place has lost its mind.

I agree with you btw.

 

[SuperRash]

Nothing cuckoo about what I said my friend nothing at all. Just cold hard reality which you guys don’t like.

You were negative when you were a United fan but now you’ve jumped ship it’s gotten worse.

More than a handful of our players get in the Liverpool team and the Arsenal one for that matter. I get you like to dig at United (for what reason who knows) but your statement was well wide of the mark.

 

[Jayc1860]

If you're talking specifically City - I think they'd be interested to see how Rashford does down their left side, and they'd definitely trial Garnacho too. Mainoo, they'd find a place for somehow. Dalot would be a great player for them to have on the bench. After that there is nobody they'd want. They're the champions so it's about trying to displace their players with ours for skill and effectiveness. Unfortunately, our players don't make the cut.

It's probably close to the same for Arsenal and Liverpool. They'd want Garnacho, Rashford, Mainoo and Dalot. Liverpool may want Bruno... but Arsenal would not.

Those are great players for us to build around though. It's just going to take a while to get up to speed with City.

 

[jsp]

Fully fit and at their best.

Shaw, Martinez, Mainoo, Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho all probably play 40-50 games a season in any side in the league.

Not saying they’d be nailed on starters in every game but they’d get plenty of games for the top 3 from last season.

Issue is we don’t see them fully fit and in form enough.

 

[RichH2016]

You were negative when you were a United fan but now you’ve jumped ship it’s gotten worse.

More than a handful of our players get in the Liverpool team and the Arsenal one for that matter. I get you like to dig at United (for what reason who knows) but your statement was well wide of the mark.

I’m not being negative though I’m just being honest. I’m not digging at United I’m just being truthful about your team. You just don’t want to accept that so it is easier to say I’m digging and don’t want United to do well. It’s a nonsense.

I want United to do well. I’ve said I want them to do well on a number of occasions. But there is a difference between wanting them to do well and the reality of where they are right now. And right now they are a team who will have to fight to get top 4 and nothing more.

 

[IDFD]

Hilarious!

Rashford definitely does not. Mount? He wouldn’t make their bench. Shaw yeah he would but he’s never fit. Garnacho he’d be a good bench / squad player for them. Martinez nope he can’t stay healthy. Hojlund definitely not. Mainoo would be the only guaranteed starter.

I’m not being provocative I’m being honest and I’m saying how it is without rose tinted glasses.

Martinez gets in to every side in the league. If you can't even admit that I can't take you seriously.

Garnacho is miles better than Doku. Garnacho starts for Argentina Doku can't get in the Holland side.

You aren't being honest. You are back to being a WUM. Honesty would be suggesting United can finish anywhere from third to eigth. But you had to go on the wind up. There is nothing between those 6 sides. Only 2 sides are clear of us and guess what we are the only team bar city to win a trophy the last two seasons. As much as you want to put the boot in over the last two seasons we are the second most successful club in the country under ETH.

We outscored Tottenham in the second half of last season and they've signed no one so I'd love you to explain it if you're just being honest.

Do a combined Spurs vs Utd 11 and make way you're saying make sense and do the same with Chelsea and Newcastle. Prove you aren't on the wind up.

 

[Jayc1860]

Martinez can't stay fit. Nobody would be interested in him until he has a whole season playing well and not getting injured. So he doesn't walk into any side in the league at all. Neither does Shaw for the exact same reason.

Doku isn't dutch, he's Belgian.

Also it's the other way around. Garnacho is the one being left on the bench.

 

[RichH2016]

Martinez gets in to every side in the league. If you can't even admit that I can't take you seriously.

Garnacho is miles better than Doku. Garnacho starts for Argentina Doku can't get in the Holland side.

You aren't being honest. You are back to being a WUM. Honesty would be suggesting United can finish anywhere from third to eigth

You just read what you want. I said Martinez can’t stay healthy. Different to him not being good enough.

I said United are in a real fight to finish top 4. That fight includes 8 teams so guess what? They can finish anywhere from 4th to 8th.

You just don’t like the truth. Not many United fans do. They can’t accept the truth and the reality of your situation. You aren’t better off than last year at this point because Yoro is out already for 3 months and are still reliant on Shaw and Martinez staying fit.

 

[IDFD]

No I love the truth. Truth is the bookies have us evens for top 4 and 4th favourites for the title.

Prove you aren't baiting and do your combined 11. Your nonsense thinking you can be objective is ridiculously and quite frankly infuriating. You feel been Southampton fan for 5 mins only started when they were doing well last season. Only stopped supporting United when things weren't going well. Your opinion would be valid if you could back it up. But you don't you just spout drivel with nothing to back it up and I've asked you to with combined 11s of 3 different sides

 

[Jayc1860]

You just read what you want. I said Martinez can’t stay healthy. Different to him not being good enough.

I said United are in a real fight to finish top 4. That fight includes 8 teams so guess what? They can finish anywhere from 4th to 8th.

You just don’t like the truth. Not many United fans do. They can’t accept the truth and the reality of your situation. You aren’t better off than last year at this point because Yoro is out already for 3 months and are still reliant on Shaw and Martinez staying fit.

That's a very common IDFD trait. It's like talking to a wall.

 

[Mr C]

I think if we had 5 or 6 players that would walk into city/arsenal, we wouldn't have had such a bad season. Few of our players matched that level.

Personally, I blame the coach.

Garnacho, Mainoo, I think that would be who stand a chance.

But if we can somehow maximise the potential of this team, then maybe a few more. But mount, Shaw, Martinez and hojlund, not a chance on last season's form.

The coaching staff need to improve their efforts massively. And I think they will.

 

[RichH2016]

That's a very common IDFD trait. It's like talking to a wall.

100% bud! He sees that I am honest about a player or the team and says I just want to knock United. It’s simply not true.

 

[SuperRash]

I think if we had 5 or 6 players that would walk into city/arsenal, we wouldn't have had such a bad season. Few of our players matched that level.

Personally, I blame the coach.

Garnacho, Mainoo, I think that would be who stand a chance.

But if we can somehow maximise the potential of this team, then maybe a few more. But mount, Shaw, Martinez and hojlund, not a chance on last season's form.

The coaching staff need to improve their efforts massively. And I think they will.

I guess a bad season doesn’t mean our players don’t have qualities and wouldn’t thrive in another team.

Not many would get into City’s team right now granted for Arsenal example, I would say Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Mainoo would be shoe ins for their starting XI. Garnacho wouldn’t get ahead of Saka but potentially Rashford would start on their left. Hojlund also maybe because of their lack of options upfront.

 

[Jayc1860]

100% bud! He sees that I am honest about a player or the team and says I just want to knock United. It’s simply not true.

Don't worry, I believe you. I think some of the stuff you say makes sense and is just the truth. We've got a lot to do and prove these days.

I used to be part of a Chelsea forum and I know what it's like to be faced with this sort of stuff. Some days it felt like I could not win no matter what I said - it was always because I'm a United fan.

 

[RichH2016]

Don't worry, I believe you. I think some of the stuff you say makes sense and is just the truth. We've got a lot to do, and prove these days.

I used to be part of a Chelsea forum and I know what it's like to be faced with this sort of stuff. Some days it felt like I could not win no matter what I said - it was always because I'm a United fan.

It’s a shame really because basically I have to be nothing but positive about United otherwise I’m just being a hater. And that’s simply not true I don’t hate United. I want them to do well. I used to support them, my brother is still a huge United fan and my late grandfather was too. But I’m just being honest about what I see.

I’ve done nothing but wax lyrical about Mainoo. Garnacho is a really good young player with a bright future. Martinez can be a top CB but he’s struggled to stay healthy. Shaw is a fantastic LB but can’t stay healthy. Dalot is a decent player and Bruno is capable of sublime moments and games. But there’s so much rubbish in the United team.

 

[Jayc1860]

It’s a shame really because basically I have to be nothing but positive about United otherwise I’m just being a hater. And that’s simply not true I don’t hate United. I want them to do well. I used to support them, my brother is still a huge United fan and my late grandfather was too. But I’m just being honest about what I see.

I’ve done nothing but wax lyrical about Mainoo. Garnacho is a really good young player with a bright future. Martinez can be a top CB but he’s struggled to stay healthy. Shaw is a fantastic LB but can’t stay healthy. Dalot is a decent player and Bruno is capable of sublime moments and games. But there’s so much rubbish in the United team.

That's why I'm supporting you, because I see the exact same thing. That means you can't be trolling. I try and be as honest as I can about my team and players. I don't see a point lying about it. We're not the United we used to be and haven't been for a very long time. I know what it's like to have a great team to support [in terms of personel] and unfortunately this isn't it. We've started to head in the right direction now though and the future looks a lot brighter if we keep making signings like Yoro.

 

[RichH2016]

That's why I'm supporting you, because I see the exact same thing. That means you can't be trolling. I try and be as honest as I can about my team and players. I don't see a point lying about it. We're not the United we used to be and haven't been for a very long time. I know what it's like to have a great team to support [in terms of personel] and unfortunately this isn't it. We've started to head in the right direction now though and the future looks a lot brighter if we keep making signings like Yoro.

100% bud. The Yoro signing could be a very very good signing long term. He looks like a real player and to me that’s how United used to do things. Buy young hungry players who you develop and then if it comes to it you sell them on for a profit. I’m not saying United are a selling club but it’s what they have done in the past and that’s good business sense.

Zirkee is another that looks like a good piece of business. Good young player for a pretty good price and gives you options.

But so far that’s it. They need at least 3 more as things stand without any players leaving.

 

[Jayc1860]

100% bud. The Yoro signing could be a very very good signing long term. He looks like a real player and to me that’s how United used to do things. Buy young hungry players who you develop and then if it comes to it you sell them on for a profit. I’m not saying United are a selling club but it’s what they have done in the past and that’s good business sense.

Zirkee is another that looks like a good piece of business. Good young player for a pretty good price and gives you options.

But so far that’s it. They need at least 3 more as things stand without any players leaving.

Again, I agree. I think you're being fair.

It's the midfield that is the major problem. We can't compete for titles without recruiting well in those positions. We desperately need a mobile CM, and a DM ball winner. Players of high quality of we are destined for the same type of season as last.

If you asked me right now where we will finiish I could only tell you 4th or below, and I'm not confident on 4th at all.

 

[JammyRed]

No rose tints from me either I say it as I see it, we finished 8th last season and that is piss poor.
If we dont get players in that midfield abyss we are in for another disappointing season.

 

[SuperRash]

Get a room guys - @Jayc1860 @RichH2016

 

[IDFD]

It’s a shame really because basically I have to be nothing but positive about United otherwise I’m just being a hater. And that’s simply not true I don’t hate United. I want them to do well. I used to support them, my brother is still a huge United fan and my late grandfather was too. But I’m just being honest about what I see.

I’ve done nothing but wax lyrical about Mainoo. Garnacho is a really good young player with a bright future. Martinez can be a top CB but he’s struggled to stay healthy. Shaw is a fantastic LB but can’t stay healthy. Dalot is a decent player and Bruno is capable of sublime moments and games. But there’s so much rubbish in the United team.

I'm just asking you to be as 'honest' about the other clubs as you say you are about United.

What have Tottenham done this offseason? Did you watch them at the back end of last season and see how they were shipping goals for fun could no longer score and teams had worked out all you needed to do was sit in and pick them off on the counter?
Wouldn't you agree Liverpool have gone backwards this offseason? They lost their manager the man everyone is adament was crucial to their success.
Wouldn't you agree Villa have gone backwards this offseason? They lost their best player.
Wouldn't you agree Chelsea have done nothing to improve their side this season and their starting 11 is actually weaker to start this season than it ended last season? They've lost the player who was their best midfielder and lost the player who was their best CB. Fofana looks a liability, their LB's can't stay fit. Their main striker is Nicolas Jackson who looks woeful at best.

Do you not think having the off field distractions of the takeover gone will help the manager and the team?

You fail to mention any of this when taking our hopes in to account. What is a shame is you seem completely oblivious to the above.

Prior to joining us Martinez has missed 12 games through injury in his career. He had a broken metatarsal and an operation that went wrong. Neither of those can go down as him being injury prone. Again not looking at it objectively it isn't anything like Shaw who continuously picks up muscle injuries.

 

[jsp]

Problem is that all costs money which is clearly a problem for a lot of clubs at the moment including us.

We didn't make the champions league which has impacted the revenues for this season.

We are struggling to make money from sales which has been a problem for the last decade.

I don't think anyone is blind to the fact that without midfielders coming in the chances of us getting back in the top 4 looks very tough but we aren't the only club facing these sort of concerns. City/Arsenal I reckon will be a minimum 10 points clear of the rest of the field this year.

Liverpool - no new signings yet and a new manager. Personally I felt they over performed last season, still major doubts over Nunez, Van Dijk I think is starting to look a little vulnerable, can Salah keep bailing them out.
Villa - 8 champions League group games to fit in alongside a league campaign that is going to really test the durability of their squad. I think teams might also setup different against them to show a bit more respect.
Spurs - back in europe this season which might mean they have to rotate a little bit more often to last the distance and when they weren't able to play their best XI last season they struggled. Teams also know what to expect now.
Chelsea - another new manager with a new playing style so they're a complete unknown plus they also have european games to get through.
Newcastle - Haven't really been able to strengthen because of all the PSR issues they have. They've kept their best players which is key and no European football means they should be fresher.