Mauricio Pochettino at PSG

Mr C

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Hmmm, I think you can, he didn't take over a side in turmoil, they were 1 point off top. And he bottled it Vs city.

I'm not saying he's poor, I just dont get why people think he's a better option than Ole, he's done nothing.

You're obviously not old enough to remember Ossie and Villa at Spurs. Or even Gazza's spurs. Poch should have won the league the year city did in my opinion, which is why I said he underperformed.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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He's had less than a full season at PSG. The same way we couldn't judge Ole after his first half season, we can't judge Poch after half a season at PSG.
Not if he stays and rights the ship for next season, but if he bails to go back to a Spurs side which is just happy to make top 4 and has no ambition or pressure to actually win anything, he's taking the cowardly route. If he wants to be a great manager, then stay at PSG and win the league at a canter (which they should) and do something in the CL (which they also should.) He's got the resources and the squad to do it. Stay put and show us what you've got. Or go to Madrid. Same thing. But don't go back to the soft touch that is Spurs.
 

O-Dog

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Lol, I probably older than you Mr C.

I remember the Argies, the FA cup songs, Gazza and Venebles, especially the match against Arsenal.

For reference, Tommy Docherty was manager when I first started following United.

Maybe that's the problem; I'm old and confused! ;)
 

IDFD

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There are times when it sounds like you know nothing about football.

There are times when I feel like I don't on here. I've sat and watch Poch take the easiest job in club football and fail and still people think he should walk in to possibly the hardest job in club football. How can anyone see his last 12 months as a manager and think he's the man for the job. Screwed it as Spurs and failed at PSG. I will guess you have a short memory but towards the end of his Spurs tenure they went 11 months in the league without an away win and were sitting in the bottom half of the league at the end of November when he was sacked. Then as if getting sacked by Spurs for poor performance (25 points from his last 24 games true relegation battling form) wasn't enough he goes to PSG fails to win the league and still people shout for him to be our manager.

Ole's season has been a much better one than Poch has managed and it's a massive failure to win the league with that side in France. Perhaps you don't know enough about french football to realise how far ahead of everyone else they should be?
 

jsp

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There are times when I feel like I don't on here. I've sat and watch Poch take the easiest job in club football and fail and still people think he should walk in to possibly the hardest job in club football. How can anyone see his last 12 months as a manager and think he's the man for the job. Screwed it as Spurs and failed at PSG. I will guess you have a short memory but towards the end of his Spurs tenure they went 11 months in the league without an away win and were sitting in the bottom half of the league at the end of November when he was sacked. Then as if getting sacked by Spurs for poor performance (25 points from his last 24 games true relegation battling form) wasn't enough he goes to PSG fails to win the league and still people shout for him to be our manager.

Ole's season has been a much better one than Poch has managed and it's a massive failure to win the league with that side in France. Perhaps you don't know enough about french football to realise how far ahead of everyone else they should be?

Think the problem is every time someone posts something about Poch you and others turn it into a Poch vs Ole argument when it doesn’t need to be that. Quite often the defence of Ole is to hammer the other guy in the debate.

The Poch links were genuine at times Ole’s job has been under serious pressure Jan 2020 and November 2020 being key moments where results were really against him. If he’d got sacked at either of those points it would have been valid as results were so bad but he managed to turn them around and in both seasons deliver reasonably good seasons.

At these times Poch would have been a genuine alternative as he was out of work and is widely regarded as a very good manager but he’d still have been a gamble with plenty to prove. no one is going to argue that things went bad in the end at Spurs and that he will be disappointed to not win the league at PSG.

None of us follow PSG that closely but from what I see every time I watch them is players who play for themselves not the team, have terrible discipline and can be easily rattled. There’s also clearly a culture where players run the show not the coaches. I think last summer they lost 2 experienced veterans who kept their dressing room in check in Tiago Silva and Cavani.

Neymar only play 18 league games this season which seems crazy but in 4 years at the club he’s only averaged 30 games a season in all comps. Mbappe 31 league games, Verrati 21 league games. So yeah PSG should walk this league every season but part of the problem is some of the stars aren’t showing up every week as they’re either injured or suspended. When they were really smashing it Zlatan and Cavani were there every single week for them getting the job done.
 

IDFD

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Think the problem is every time someone posts something about Poch you and others turn it into a Poch vs Ole argument when it doesn’t need to be that. Quite often the defence of Ole is to hammer the other guy in the debate.

I posted he asked to leave yesterday.

Very first response 'that makes it easier for us to poach him to replace Ole' and a dig at Ole about trophies. Poch simply isn't the man to use to make that dig. So it's definitely a two way street.

Poch has been identified as the man people want regardless of the fact in his last 18 months as a manager he's been very poor.

Ole's biggest defence is that he's quite simply doing a good job.

As for Poch his reputation has taken a big hit and if the Madrid job is up for grabs I'd take it now because the big boys aren't going to keep coming calling if his current trajectory continues.

PSG have triggered his extension. So any compensation will have just gone up.
 

jsp

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He’d be crazy to take that Madrid job now that club needs a massive squad overhaul and it’s pretty obvious the money is not there to do it hence them clinging on to that super league idea.

His best move is stick at PSG for the full season hope the big stars are fit and fire him to some easy domestic wins and another good European campaign. The move back to Spurs just makes no sense to me unless he’s really unhappy in Paris I did read something suggesting his family have not been in Paris with him which can’t be easy but that may change going forward.

I guess for Ole his job will always be under pressure that comes with being Utd manager there is an expectation to win and a focus on every match unlike almost no other club in the world.

I just can’t get my head around this idea that them not winning the league this season when he’s only been manager for half of it is a total disaster. Yeah it’s not the most competitive league but they lost it by a point was hardly a collapse to mid table but yeah next season he needs to win it to avoid damaging his reputation as a top coach.
 

IDFD

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I'm assuming he wants out because of yesterday's reports so didn't count PSG as an option.

Was just thinking between Madrid and Spurs he should definitely go and try to do something with that Madrid team. They've still got a lot of good players.

I imagine they'll let Ramos or Varane go this summer. Isco Hazard or Acensio are probably on the sale list. They should be able to raise some money.
 

jsp

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Who’s going to buy them though that’s the problem with any club this summer unless a PL club wants your player there’s going to be very little money going around this summer. For the 3 you named you might scratch together 50m and you’ve got to find clubs these lads are willing to go to you get the impression they all rather like being a Madrid player don’t forget Bale is probably back next season unless he retires.

Think at Madrid all the big names are now the wrong side of 30 and on the slide there’s not much to really rebuild around from what I can see.

The only advantage is the other big two in Spain aren’t up to much either although Barca were looking better in the second half of the season seem to be sticking with Koeman. Not sure picking up all these guys on bosman’s will help their wage bill though but could give them a kick up the backside next season.

You kind of need to prey that Hazard gets fully fit over the summer and finally comes good if you go back to Madrid.

You never really know where reports come from he might have been happy for it to be out their to try and get PSG to commit to him he was only on a short term deal.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Think the problem is every time someone posts something about Poch you and others turn it into a Poch vs Ole argument when it doesn’t need to be that. Quite often the defence of Ole is to hammer the other guy in the debate.
I'll hold my hands up as one of the others. For me, it's not about turning every convo about Poch into a Poch v Ole thing, its more of a reaction to the Ole Out crowd turning every manager on a good spell into the second coming of Fergie that we should sack Ole for. Earlier in the season it was Ancelotti when Everton got off to a good start. Then it was Poch as soon as he became available. Rogers wins a few games and people give him the lustful eyes. These are all good managers, but not pillars of managerial perfection that the Ole Out crowd would like to make them.
 

jsp

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I'll hold my hands up as one of the others. For me, it's not about turning every convo about Poch into a Poch v Ole thing, its more of a reaction to the Ole Out crowd turning every manager on a good spell into the second coming of Fergie that we should sack Ole for. Earlier in the season it was Ancelotti when Everton got off to a good start. Then it was Poch as soon as he became available. Rogers wins a few games and people give him the lustful eyes. These are all good managers, but not pillars of managerial perfection that the Ole Out crowd would like to make them.

I mean you may have a point but you can’t put Ancelotti in with these others the guy is one of the best managers of the last 20 years.

I just find the whole OleOut vs OleIn thing frustrating as whatever side you or anyone might be on it’s like you can’t listen to what the other side is saying. At some point one side will be proven wrong I don’t think anyone on here is so against Ole that we’d rather see him fail to prove them right we all want Ole to be the right man to put us on top but you can have doubts.

Until Ole wins some silverware all those managers you named will probably say they’ve had better managerial careers than Ole and I’d probably agree with them but he’s very fortunate that a club like Utd are being patient with him.

People are allowed to be nice about other managers though.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Ancelotti has certainly had an outstanding career and has much more pedigree than the others, and obviously Ole. So did Jose and LvG, and yet Ole has done a better job than either of them did.

I think the discussions on here are by and large reasonable, but they get influenced by what we read/see on social media, which is rife with idiots on both sides of any debate. Ole is a @#$% for not playing this player. Ole is a @#$(*^ for playing that player and etc., and at times I react to that stuff on here.

Ole needs to win something and quick. He's proven that he's the right man for where we are in our development/return to the top. The jury is still out if he's the right man to take us to the next step and back on our perch. When he has the tools to properly challenge at the top and his managerial nous is the biggest thing preventing us from winning things, then he'll need to go. Right now, we're not at that stage, but you can see that he's working toward it.
 

Mr C

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I agree, I back Ole, I thinks he's done an outstanding job with players, and behind the scenes. But I do think next season he needs to win something, or at least get closer. I'll take a final loss if we're knocking on the door for 90 mins. Fundamentally, if I can see a difference against sides that low block.
 

jsp

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He’s going to need to seriously improve the home form with fans back in if he can get the results going at home then things could really start to flow.

If he’s well backed with a few more good players that can help sort the sloppy defending out then I see no reason why this side can’t challenge for the big competitions next season.
 

jsp

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From the reporting yesterday/today.

Spurs are suggesting they're in talks while PSG are telling everyone that there's nothing going on and Poch is 100% in for next season.

It's a very odd story feels like there's something there because if there wasn't Poch would surely just announce he's staying.
 

Mr C

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ZZ to PSG might help them keep Mbappe, and get Pogba and Varane.

I expect PSG wouldn't mind if he goes, but want big bucks for it, so used the extra year extension.
 

IDFD

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That's not true is it? As I said before if we are going to start counting Poch's cup wins in France with PSG a team miles better than anyone else then we'll include Ole's league wins with Molde.

However Ole has already achieved the pinnacle of Poch's career in England. So if you want Poch you obviously don't care about taking the next step. I could understand if the clammer was for Conte to come in. A proven winner at every club he goes to.
 

jsp

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ZZ to PSG might help them keep Mbappe, and get Pogba and Varane.

I expect PSG wouldn't mind if he goes, but want big bucks for it, so used the extra year extension.

Hard to really tell what they want they got rid of a good manager to bring in Poch so you'd think they'll stick with him for at least a full season but in football who knows.

There were some suggestions that Poch was actually the first choice for Madrid but when they spoke to PSG about the possibility they were told no and they moved on to get Ancelloti.

Feels to me like if they were prepared to let him go they'd get it all done quickly to make sure they get their new man in before all the top names are taken.
 

IDFD

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Not sure they got rid of Tuchel to bring in Poch. They got rid of Tuchel because him and the board fell out and Poch was available.

Sound as though Poch has decided a trip back to Spurs is what he wants. Maybe life just isn't as rosie there as he thought it was going to be.
 

Macariman

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Not sure they got rid of Tuchel to bring in Poch. They got rid of Tuchel because him and the board fell out and Poch was available.

Sound as though Poch has decided a trip back to Spurs is what he wants. Maybe life just isn't as rosie there as he thought it was going to be.
PSG sacked Tuchel mid season because they didn't appreciate where he was at that time
Where did u hear this political shit about the Board?
Love to hear it ? Were u a fly on the wall?
 

IDFD

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It was a very public falling out between the two of them. Leonardo even gave him a dressing down in public.

The following day Leonardo voiced his disapproval of Tuchel's comments, saying "you have to respect the people above you".

"I didn't like his comments, the club didn't like them either," he said.

"We have to understand the moment we are going through. If someone is not happy, it is easy - we can talk. But if you decide to stay, you have to respect the people above you."

When he was sacked they were 1 point behind. Just topped their Champions League group. Had won the league at a canter the previous two seasons and lost in the champions league final. It certainly wasn't because of performance.
 

Macariman

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It was a very public falling out between the two of them. Leonardo even gave him a dressing down in public.

The following day Leonardo voiced his disapproval of Tuchel's comments, saying "you have to respect the people above you".

"I didn't like his comments, the club didn't like them either," he said.

"We have to understand the moment we are going through. If someone is not happy, it is easy - we can talk. But if you decide to stay, you have to respect the people above you."

When he was sacked they were 1 point behind. Just topped their Champions League group. Had won the league at a canter the previous two seasons and lost in the champions league final. It certainly wasn't because of performance.
Shows Tuchel.has the mettle, would love to see it at OT!
 

Macariman

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That's not true is it? As I said before if we are going to start counting Poch's cup wins in France with PSG a team miles better than anyone else then we'll include Ole's league wins with Molde.

However Ole has already achieved the pinnacle of Poch's career in England. So if you want Poch you obviously don't care about taking the next step. I could understand if the clammer was for Conte to come in. A proven winner at every club he goes to.
Oh no, you re correct, he won the Norwegian League. Fantastic.
Also.got relegated in England!
Get real ffs
 

jsp

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Tuchel was appointed by the previous sporting director he didn't like the clubs transfer business over the summer felt they'd weakened the squad rather than strengthen it which I believe he said in public which annoyed Leonardo. Seem to recall their being problems around Icardi at the time as Tuchel wasn't picking him but the club had just spent a fortune to make his signing permanent which was against the wishes of Tuchel. Tuchel had stopped picking him while he was on loan as he didn't think the team worked well with him in it as he doesn't really get involved in build up play.

That wound never really healed and at the first chance Leonardo sacked him probably because he didn't want to keep being reminded of his mistake. I do think the availability of Poch was a factor in that decision he was a former PSG player so I'm guessing that Leonardo thought that would get fans on his side as the fans hadn't really turned against Tuchel.

If a guy like Poch hadn't been available I think they'd have carried on with Tuchel for the rest of the season and just saw how it played out as they were still going along ok in all competitions.
 

jsp

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Would be a move that could make a lot of sense especially if he's able to bring Lukaku with him as a Kane replacement a Lukaku/Son strikeforce would be bloody handy and the 3-5-2 system he uses probably suits a lot of players at Spurs.

Obviously it will end in the usual car crash over signings but he's a very good coach.
 

Cosmic Slop

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ZZ to PSG might help them keep Mbappe, and get Pogba and Varane.

I expect PSG wouldn't mind if he goes, but want big bucks for it, so used the extra year extension.
I would like to see that team. We have only caught glimpses of Pogba at his best and that PSG side would surely allow him to flourish. When I saw ZZ play in person it was like he was a magician. He glided through players and seemed to have all the time he needed, no rush, no fuss. I think ZZ would set up PSG so that he got the best out of players like Mbappe, Pogba, Neymar, and it would be glorious to behold.
 

jsp

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Looks like they're about to confirm the signing of Wijnaldum.

Offered him way more than Barca were willing to pay to land him.
 

Macariman

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Would be a move that could make a lot of sense especially if he's able to bring Lukaku with him as a Kane replacement a Lukaku/Son strikeforce would be bloody handy and the 3-5-2 system he uses probably suits a lot of players at Spurs.

Obviously it will end in the usual car crash over signings but he's a very good coach.
Lukaku doesn't pose a threat !
 

jsp

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Lukaku doesn't pose a threat !

He does if you try and pass the ball to him not just hoof it at his head which is how we played for most of his time here under Mourinho he is not a target man and never will be.

Lukaku is a very good goal scorer there's bit of his game that aren't fantastic but used in the right way he's almost unplayable.
 

Macariman

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He does if you try and pass the ball to him not just hoof it at his head which is how we played for most of his time here under Mourinho he is not a target man and never will be.

Lukaku is a very good goal scorer there's bit of his game that aren't fantastic but used in the right way he's almost unplayable.
His last 2 seasons at Inter?
60 goals for his country ,in 92.caps. who r ranked No 1 iinthe.world.
No Threat whatsoever!
 

jsp

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Similar to Alaba, offered double the wage

Similar to our situation with Herrera when he went there.

I'm not going to knock the player for taking the cash on offer and PSG will always have to tempt players with premium wages compared to the bigger established clubs but that's a hefty premium.

I really think the inflated wages on bosman deals is something clubs could easily crack down on themselves with a bit of self policing
 

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