Loan Watch 2024/25: Marcus Rashford at Aston Villa

IDFD said:
He's 4th favourite to be sacked next. 2 of them infront of him are already out the door.

United are already in talks with two managers.

I've seen nothing to think we are improving. As I said he's been worse than Ragnick (even at creating chances). I'd be shocked if he's here come October. Unfortunately there are a lot that are seeing what they want to see because of how vicious they were about our previous managers. What we've seen so far is far worst. And upper management have noticed hence having talks with Xavi recently.

Amorim won't make the end of next season unless he drops this formation. At this point I'd be surprised if he's see's the start of next.

I really hope we can drop the nonsense about seeing patterns and things improving though. If that game was under ETH you'd all be banging on about how awful we were. We were embarrassingly bad against a team who played 120 minutes 3 days earlier scored quickly and gave us the ball and said score if you can. We couldn't.
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I agree the results and stats aren't great. All I have is a feeling, nothing more. It just feels different, right, having Amorim as our manager, and the football structure above him. I may be proven wrong. Time will tell.
 
IDFD said:
He's 4th favourite to be sacked next. 2 of them infront of him are already out the door.

United are already in talks with two managers.

I've seen nothing to think we are improving. As I said he's been worse than Ragnick (even at creating chances). I'd be shocked if he's here come October. Unfortunately there are a lot that are seeing what they want to see because of how vicious they were about our previous managers. What we've seen so far is far worst. And upper management have noticed hence having talks with Xavi recently.

Amorim won't make the end of next season unless he drops this formation. At this point I'd be surprised if he's see's the start of next.

I really hope we can drop the nonsense about seeing patterns and things improving though. If that game was under ETH you'd all be banging on about how awful we were. We were embarrassingly bad against a team who played 120 minutes 3 days earlier scored quickly and gave us the ball and said score if you can. We couldn't.
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From your sources?
 
I've haven't heard any noise about Utd talking to other managers what so ever.

Google Man Utd Xavi and the links are all from October 2024 when he was meant to be in the running alongside Amorim for the job.

There is one story from a month ago on football365 which is quoting rumours about Xavi despite widespread reports that we're sticking with Amorim no matter what.

Look if we're 13th going into Xmas next season then of course Amorim will be in trouble but they're going to have to give him a summer to bed in new players and his methods.
 
Some people just aren't watching our games - either that or they don't have a clue what they're watching. I'm thinking it's a lot more the second option. If you watched the game against Forest and believe we were the worse team then you don't understand football.

For the whole game we had the majority of the ball, played some great passages of play and looked like a team with some understanding as to what we're trying to do. Everyone is starting to look more confident in their actions. This is called tactical progression. It's something you will only start to see after a decent length of time.

Amorim is facing all the same problems ETH had - problems the ex-coach created - that being the lack of experience in forward positions and a strong core in midfield. Amorim has had no time to try and fix the major issues of player personel because he hasn't had a transfer window yet. He needs to buy some goal scorers and wing-backs too. He's got a lot to put right.

When he addresses all the issues ETH has created only then will we start to see a big improvement and be able to judge him properly. This is lost on certain people.

We outplayed the side in third position in the league away from home, a team on a high and in form; creating something like 29 shots on goal.

The very obvious problem for us against them was putting the ball in the back of the net. This isssue can't be solved without additional players. ETH simply built a disaster of a team and deployed it in such a way most of the world were laughing at him. He single handedly set us back years, and destroyed the confidence of many of our players. No doubt they are still recovering from all of that, and things like that are easily forgotten or ignored because it doesn't suit the narrative.

Just wake up and see things as they are for once instead of running through the same tired rubbish.
 
To be honest you can't really say we look like anything other than an ordinary mid table side at the moment.

We don't create a lot of chances, we are pretty wasteful with the ones we do create and defensively we make mistakes that cost us goals.

That isn't all of Amorim's making though that's the legacy of some poor decisions made in the last 5 years which has left us with a squad of players that are nowhere near the level we need them to be.

One of the reasons the old manager is gone is he was a key part of the decision making team that put that squad together. All of those decision makers are now gone and we need to prey that the new one's are going to make much better decisions.

I think Amorim has accepted that he can't play his high pressing style with this group so he's tried to make them a bit more cautious and counter attacking for now still within the 3-4-3 but the task will be to move past that this summer with new players.

This was where Ole and ETH both struggled that transition away from being more cautious and being more on the front foot was really the downfall of both of them. If we're going to do that under Amorim he's going to need to be able to make a massive change to that squad over the summer which doesn't feel very likely.

A big part of making that happen will be getting as many of the higher earners who don't play out the door. That's Casemiro, Sancho, Rashford and Eriksen out the door.
 
We bought really badly over the last 3 seasons. And before to be honest.

But the problem with this team is not the manager.

It's the lack of quality at the top of the pitch.

The Xavi rumour a few months back was nonsense and died as soon as it arrived.

SJR said Amorim will be here next season, he's not going to go back on that.

If we bring in the right players, this manager will prosper.
 
Of course the problem is the team and the players within it. Like I’ve said before this season was always going to happen with our years of poor recruitment. We’ve had the odd trophy here and there but it’s just papered over the cracks.

Amorim has the chance to build something and it was always going to get worse before it got better. And of course there has been progress since he came in. Perhaps not readily apparent with results but let’s be honest, only a few of our players would get into that Forest team and it’s the same for probably the top 7 or 8 clubs. Our squad is mid-table quality with a smattering of better than good players and some promising youngsters.
 
Exactly. It's going to be a long project. This is the man we should put our faith in though. I love his energy, honesty, and proactive approach. In this league the latter is an absolute must have.
 
jsp said:
I've haven't heard any noise about Utd talking to other managers what so ever.

Google Man Utd Xavi and the links are all from October 2024 when he was meant to be in the running alongside Amorim for the job.
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The Xavi links were in March and they come from Alex Pintanel. The reason being Xavi was our #1 target to replace ETH but refused to join midseason.

There is absolutely no way we can carry on like this and say yeah things are going well he's here for the long term. To suggest it's all on the players is absurd. 31% win ratio. 22 points from 19 games. His full season pace is 44 points.
 
IDFD said:
This is wide of the mark by a long shot
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Not sure it’s as wide as you think.

Goalkeepers: Even

Centre backs: De Ligt yes but I don’t think any of our centre backs right now get ahead of Milenkovic and Murillo.

Full backs: Williams and Aina have been outstanding and again I couldn’t make a case for our options being ahead of them. Shaw when fit would walk into the Forest team but I don’t really count him in conversations anymore.

Midfielders: Bruno 100%. Mainoo probably. The others? Very very debatable.

Attackers: Absolutely not Hojlund or Zirkzee ahead of Wood. Amad definitely. Garnacho doesn’t get ahead of Elanga on current form.

So yeah in my opinion only a few. However this is very much based on current form. For example if Garnacho was playing to his full potential, yeah I would send him in ahead of Elanga.
 
IDFD said:
The Xavi links were in March and they come from Alex Pintanel. The reason being Xavi was our #1 target to replace ETH but refused to join midseason.

There is absolutely no way we can carry on like this and say yeah things are going well he's here for the long term. To suggest it's all on the players is absurd. 31% win ratio. 22 points from 19 games. His full season pace is 44 points.
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So Xavirejected an approach from Utd when Ten Hag was sacked and was committed to a top season off. There’s nothing there suggesting he was is being talked to about taking over now and he was reported to be an option at the time Ten Hag was sacked.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s going well. Most are just willing to accept he deserves a summer to fix some of the obvious issues in this squad then judge him. Amorim if you recall didn’t want to take over mid season but the club told him it’s now or never.

11 points after 9 games on form gets you to 46 points so it’s hardly like he’s dragged us to even lower lows.

He/the club made the call to cut costs in January by loaning out first team players to get 1 new signing in. That’s left him short of options up top compounded by the injury to Amad.

These players under to different managers are delivering a season where we are probably going to end up with less than 50 points. I don’t think any manager is getting this lot in the top 4 there’s to many broken pieces to put anything together with them.

My point wasn’t it’s on the players it’s on the people who signed them. That squad has been terribly assembled at great expense which means whenever a manager gets appointed he inherits a mess. Onana, Casemiro, Mount, Antony and Hojlund were all expensive buys that have returned nowhere near what was expected from them.
 
SuperRash said:
Not sure it’s as wide as you think.

Goalkeepers: Even

Centre backs: De Ligt yes but I don’t think any of our centre backs right now get ahead of Milenkovic and Murillo.

Full backs: Williams and Aina have been outstanding and again I couldn’t make a case for our options being ahead of them. Shaw when fit would walk into the Forest team but I don’t really count him in conversations anymore.

Midfielders: Bruno 100%. Mainoo probably. The others? Very very debatable.

Attackers: Absolutely not Hojlund or Zirkzee ahead of Wood. Amad definitely. Garnacho doesn’t get ahead of Elanga on current form.

So yeah in my opinion only a few. However this is very much based on current form. For example if Garnacho was playing to his full potential, yeah I would send him in ahead of Elanga.
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Sorry. 6-4. Which i don't agree with.

Massively disagree.
 
Mr C said:
SJR said Amorim will be here next season, he's not going to go back on that.
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Really? SJR spent 6 months investigating ETH and said he'd be here for at least the next 2 years. And stupidly sacked him 3 months later.

Do you know a different SJR?

That's the guy you're telling me won't go back on his word. When we've had our worst premier league manager ever and the results are worse than they were under ETH even this season? (Yes ETH win percentage this season is still higher than Amorims that's how laughable the defence of Amorim is) As if being worse than Ragnick wasn't enough.

There is a reason that if you remove Nistelrooy and Ange from the betting Amorim is 3/1 favourite to be leave next. Heads up. It's not because he's doing a good job. I dont understand the pretence that he is. Our results are worse. Our chances created is worse. Our goals scored is worse.

A genuine question. What's actually improved? I think you'll struggle to provide anything other than it was a fresh start. (Which quickly soured)

We win less. Lose more. Score less. Create less. Cracking change.
 
If you listen to his interview, he says he knew this season would be bad, appointing him half way through.
Thinks he's the best young coach around.

No way he's not here come next season

The same thing happened at his last club
 
If I was Nuno, the only player I'd want is Bruno. That's it. I could maybe find a place on the bench for De ligt and Maz and try and bed them in a bit, but they wouldn't replace anyone in the starting XI.

That's because you have to judge players based upon current ability and form. Unfortunately a lot of our players have no form and therfore their ability means nothing right now, because they're not using it.

The marker for a footballer is always current form. Ability last month, or year doesn't really matter.

The Forest players are all in form, and using their ability right now. Our players can't match that.

So I'm pretty much in agreement with SuperRash.
 
surely you understand how betting odds work?

Just because he’s low odds to be next sacked doesn’t mean he will or that there’s some sort of in the know logic behind it. Just means people are betting on him which means bookies shorten odds to protect their profit on the book.

There is not a single wiff from the club that they’re thinking of making a change.

Until Utd manager has us going for the title he will probably be one of the favourites to be sacked next. That’s the pressure that comes with being Utd manager.

Sky bet has Amorim 25/1, Talksport has him at 20/1 (they have Maresca 12/1). Both of these are to be sacked before end of the season markets.
 
I know exactly how betting odds work. I have three cousins who set the market. It's not just based on money it's based on what they here and covering themselves.

However there are many rumours that Amorim will be gone this summer. It's been a disaster and that is highly recognised.
 
IDFD said:
I know exactly how betting odds work. I have three cousins who set the market. It's not just based on money it's based on what they here and covering themselves.

However there are many rumours that Amorim will be gone this summer. It's been a disaster and that is highly recognised.
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Not a chance Amorim goes in the summer. He’ll get time which is what you’ve always wanted when it comes to managers isn’t it?
 
SuperRash said:
Not a chance Amorim goes in the summer. He’ll get time which is what you’ve always wanted when it comes to managers isn’t it?
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100% But not when it so clearly doesn't work.

He's worse than Ralf!

You earn time. Like Ten Hag did with the cup wins.
 
IDFD said:
I know exactly how betting odds work. I have three cousins who set the market. It's not just based on money it's based on what they here and covering themselves.

However there are many rumours that Amorim will be gone this summer. It's been a disaster and that is highly recognised.
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Yes but it mainly moves on money. Once bets start coming in the odds change. Of course a story breaks they’ll change the odds with no bets but generally it’s the bets that are moving the odds.

Where are you hearing these rumours? There’s nothing being reported at all.
 
jsp said:
Yes but it mainly moves on money.
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It really doesn't. The market moves on what they're made aware of before we are. You must be aware of the phrase 'the house always wins'

The reason for that isn't just because they're placing bets elsewhere to cover your bets it's because they're a step ahead of you.

As for Amorim I would love him to succeed. I just can't find a reasonable defence of him. He's statistically the worst manager we've had post world war two. We don't create chances. We leak chances. What is it that he's doing well?

I genuinely think this forum had an ETH out contingent and now they can't admit they were wrong so they don't get just how bad Amorim has been.

But I'd love you to tell me. What had Amorim done that you think has been great and will cover him from the sack?
 
If there was any truth in Amorim leaving and other managers being looked at it would be all over the media.
Its bullshit.
 
Of course it is, there is a clear plan in place and this season was all about Amorim being given a bit of a head start on his tactics so we can be better prepared for next season - his real test. This season has been all about trialing players and seeing what he has, and learning which players he does and doesn't want.

People are forgetting that this season isn't over for us. Amorim may well turn it into a success when nobody thought that was possible.

If we can manage a Europa League win that would be massive. It's very achievable too. We are playing slightly better in Europe and that's also a good indicator of the tactics being sound. They just need more finely tuned in the Premier League.

For me though that can be solved with the recruitment of some better wing-backs. We need good defensive and offensive versions and we need to mix it up with various opposition. Amorim is known for doing this - but he hasn't had the chance yet.

There's obviously other things to fix too, but those positions are very important in this system.
 
SuperRash said:
Would winning the EL warrant him more time in your eyes?
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Yes. If he can win the EL he'll have done something to warrant more time and show he can get some sort of performance out of these players. We need some evidence of that.

I just want him to show himself to be a little bit adaptable and get a tune out of these players. It's woeful watching at the moment. And has been pretty much all season. I can't think of many league games where we've had 5+ shots on target. I did think we were the better team for much of yesterday. But again it's all much of nothingness.

It's 6 wins from 20. You can say what you want about the players we know they're much better than this current run of form. They've never shown a sustained period this bad.
 
You're such a hypocrite.

This is the guy that supported ETH's 4-2-3-1 grand canyon tactics. This was not even a tactic according to most of the world, and it had only one slight variation. A gaping midfield [tactic 1] or a low block [tactic 2].

Variation? Adaptability? lol

You show no consistency in what you say.

You think we forget, we don't.
 
IDFD said:
As for Amorim I would love him to succeed. I just can't find a reasonable defence of him. He's statistically the worst manager we've had post world war two. We don't create chances. We leak chances. What is it that he's doing well?

I genuinely think this forum had an ETH out contingent and now they can't admit they were wrong so they don't get just how bad Amorim has been.

But I'd love you to tell me. What had Amorim done that you think has been great and will cover him from the sack?
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We can save the bookies chat for another time as we've drifted well off topic already.

I think statistics are only really relevant when judged over long periods the smaller the sample size the less relevant they are. I don't think it's fair to judge this guy until he's had a full summer window to at least put some building blocks into his squad. He's inherited a mess and he's not really worked out how to fix it I dare say some of it cannot be fixed with these players. I'd say he's certainly realised he needs to play in a more cautious way to try and get to the end of the season maybe because of certain players getting injured or because he's lost a bit of his nerve.

I don't think the ETH contingent were wrong I felt some of them went way to early I stuck with him but by the end I was done. I couldn't see any real reason to keep going with it and sounds like there wasn't really much faith in him from the powers that be who clearly tried to replace him in the summer. I think it needed to change and really the mistake was not just doing it in the summer but with all the new execs coming in again I can see why they didn't do it. My honest reading of the contract situation what ETH probably threatened to walk if he wasn't given some sort of backing as he knew his time was short unless things took a massive turn around over the summer.

The main reason I don't think he'll be sacked is it will be a bit of an embarrassment for the new directors if they have to sack another manager within 12 months of backing him. He's their man so now he's our man and we're just going to have to see how it plays out hopefully good but no reason why he won't fail as the others did.

If 10 games in next season we're still a bottom half side he'll be under huge pressure especially if the team still looks like.
 
Who could ever forget the ETH tactic of not having anyone in the centre of midfield leaving a massive hole exposing the defence to a bombardment of shots. At least that’s been fixed.
 
JammyRed said:
Who could ever forget the ETH tactic of not having anyone in the centre of midfield leaving a massive hole exposing the defence to a bombardment of shots. At least that’s been fixed.
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Not sure you can say we've been fixed defensively. In the league we concede at a higher rate under Amorim. Whilst scoring at a lesser rate.

ETH GF1.44 / GA 1.31
Amorim 1.25 / 1.45

Also something ETH had fixed at the start of this season and the adjustment in play was what we were adapting to. If only a few of the open goals hadn't been missed.
 
IDFD said:
Not sure you can say we've been fixed defensively. In the league we concede at a higher rate under Amorim. Whilst scoring at a lesser rate.

ETH GF1.44 / GA 1.31
Amorim 1.25 / 1.45

Also something ETH had fixed at the start of this season and the adjustment in play was what we were adapting to. If only a few of the open goals hadn't been missed.
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Try watching the games instead of burying your head in stats that don’t show the full picture, the midfield is now more solid, still a very long way to go but Amorim got saddled with your man ETH’s squad, the huge hole is at least occupied and doesent give the opposing team a free run right through anymore
 
I think both managers can point to "what ifs" when it comes to the finishing this season. It's been criminal under both managers.

Neither manager found the balance where if you let them off the leash a bit you'll create chances without just leaving yourself wide open at the back.

This is the lowest quality Utd squad I've seen in my lifetime.
 
We all know IDFD loves ETH, hates Amorim and wants him to fail so he can, I told you so, about the tactics

But this is an Aston Villa/Rashford thread.

Can we restrict that chat to one thread, then I can ignore it?
 

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