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Loan Watch 2023/24: Jadon Sancho at Dortmund

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Let’s see how he gets on now he can play with a smile on his face again
 
I'm not having this he's crap because he's in Germany rubbish
I never think oh good we've got a German side when we meet them in Europe
 
Think in German football there’s always a few handy sides at the top of their league but below the top 4 or 5 there’s a big drop off.

Everyone tries to play attacking football which is great for young attacking players.
 
The standard of German football is not great to be honest. Bayern are clearly the pinnacle and then you’ve got a couple of pretenders like Leipzig and Dortmund but beyond that it’s average.

If you put someone like West Ham or Brighton in the German league, then there is a great chance they would get CL football.

English football is far better in every aspect when compared to Germany or most leagues in fact, so it’s no surprise players come from Germany and struggle.

Kagawa and Mkhitayran were dynamite for Dortmund but found the EPL tough going. A lot like Sancho has.
 
We can all name players who struggle from any league
Then there's players like Haaland, Lewandowski, Bellingham, de Bruyne literally loads who left Germany and did well.
I think it's lazy to just say anybody is crap because they play in Germany.
Our whole squad is playing bad, I don't think we can write Sancho off just yet as a terrible player.
 
Mr C said:
We can all name players who struggle from any league
Then there's players like Haaland, Lewandowski, Bellingham, de Bruyne literally loads who left Germany and did well.
I think it's lazy to just say anybody is crap because they play in Germany.
Our whole squad is playing bad, I don't think we can write Sancho off just yet as a terrible player.
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I didn’t say all players are crap if they come from the Bundesliga but there is a high percentage of failures and that’s because the English league is far superior. That’s not my opinion, that’s a fact.

For all the players who succeeded and there is a good list of them, you have Keita, Werner, Havertz, Pulisic to name a few who haven’t been great. Even further back you have someone like Ballack who was fantastic in Germany but never quite hit the heights for Chelsea.

I haven’t written off Sancho but he didn’t show anything in his time so far here to suggest he will become an important player for us. Clearly a talented player and his skill on the ball is very good but you need a whole lot more to succeed in England. Perhaps you can skirt along a little bit in Germany because of the standard but not here.
 
I wonder if some people actually look into things before they speak.

Someone said you've got Bayern, a couple of others, then the rest is average. That's the exact same as the premier league. You've got city, then arsenal and Liverpool, the rest is average.

Last season the top 4/5 lost about the same amount of games in both leagues, which would suggest the leagues are similar. The top 4/5 were much closer in points to Bayern than anyone to City.

The bottom teams in the prem lost 22,21,25 respectively, the Bundesliga was 15,17,19 although 4 games less.

But all this does not point to the prem being a far more competitive league. They seem pretty similar, if anything the German league is a little more competitive.

Like I said initially, if we get a German team in Europe I don't think oh good. In fact I'd rather face a team from any other league than Germany.
 
No need to be condescending, it was just my opinion on the quality of the German league.

There of course are the better teams and then the teams below them. But I believe the quality of the German teams is below the quality of the equivalent English teams. For me, if you take a couple of the higher teams from the Championship, I think they would comfortably survive in the Bundesliga.

It is no coincidence that some highly rated players from the Bundesliga struggle over here. The standard of football is much higher and competitive here. Of course you have world class talents that leave there and thrive but players a little below that level haven’t.

Not totally discounting the quality of the German league but on a comparison level to the EPL there is only one winner.
 
And I think it's a bit red tinted to say Sancho can only play in Germany because the the league is lower standard. I'm not sure the stats show that, as I've posted.
But most importantly no player in the united side is playing well, it's not like Sancho struggled in an otherwise good performing team.
It's fine saying you want him sold, I do. But I don't agree with sillyness that goes along with it
In a decent managed side, playing his favoured position, which he rarely did at united let's not forget, I think he definitely has the skillset for the premier league.

People just hate, Hojlund hasn't done it in Italy or England, yet he's brilliant. There comes a point you've got to look at the manager with so many under performing players and a side with no system
 
Opera-Snapshot-2024-01-14-083603-www-unitedinfocus-com.png



Well stop that world because I want to get off!
 
Mr C said:
And I think it's a bit red tinted to say Sancho can only play in Germany because the the league is lower standard. I'm not sure the stats show that, as I've posted.
But most importantly no player in the united side is playing well, it's not like Sancho struggled in an otherwise good performing team.
It's fine saying you want him sold, I do. But I don't agree with sillyness that goes along with it
In a decent managed side, playing his favoured position, which he rarely did at united let's not forget, I think he definitely has the skillset for the premier league.

People just hate, Hojlund hasn't done it in Italy or England, yet he's brilliant. There comes a point you've got to look at the manager with so many under performing players and a side with no system
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Not an opinion shared by the Managers in the PL who knew he was available on loan after burning his bridges at United, and probably available for a knockdown fee in January also, not a one.
 
The facts are Sancho failed at United you can dress it up blame the manager whatever you want but he didn't make it, he sulked because he was pushed harder in training and had to tow the line at turning up on time like everyone else. He`s a mard arse good riddance.
 
Mr C said:
And I think it's a bit red tinted to say Sancho can only play in Germany because the the league is lower standard. I'm not sure the stats show that, as I've posted.
But most importantly no player in the united side is playing well, it's not like Sancho struggled in an otherwise good performing team.
It's fine saying you want him sold, I do. But I don't agree with sillyness that goes along with it
In a decent managed side, playing his favoured position, which he rarely did at united let's not forget, I think he definitely has the skillset for the premier league.

People just hate, Hojlund hasn't done it in Italy or England, yet he's brilliant. There comes a point you've got to look at the manager with so many under performing players and a side with no system
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Your stats don’t really say anything to be honest, I would much rather see teams from both leagues with my own eyes.

I take on face value what I have seen from Sancho in a United shirt. It has been an underwhelming spell at best. The only things I remember him doing are that goal against Liverpool early last season and his goal against City at the Etihad.

I may be being tough on Sancho but you’re tough on the manager who did really well last season - this season less so granted. Then you have Hojlund who is a young kid who has already been written off as not being good enough. Then there is Antony who you say isn’t good enough but was better than Sancho last season.
 
Jesus Christ. We're sitting 9th in the league, right next to a team who have lost four in a row. Overtaken by Brighton, Westham and Villa and we don't score goals. What will it take to break your delusion that this manger is great? He wasn't even that good last season, he had a season in which he could build upon, that's it - this job is based upon results now, and many people who have a much better idea than us have said far too much patience is shown by us these days, and I agree. He should now be keeping the team in the top four, and showing us a level of performance that is of our clubs standard. What about the CL? That was horrorfying. Now he's sending out necessary people on loan. We could use another good winger right now. Just totally crazy.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Jesus Christ. We're sitting 9th in the league, right next to a team who have lost four in a row. Overtaken by Brighton, Westham and Villa and we don't score goals. What will it take to break your delusion that this manger is great? He wasn't even that good last season, he had a season in which he could build upon, that's it - this job is based upon results now, and many people who have a much better idea than us have said far too much patience is shown by us these days, and I agree. He should now be keeping the team in the top four, and showing us a level of performance that is of our clubs standard. What about the CL? That was horrorfying. Now he's sending out necessary people on loan. We could use another good winger right now. Just totally crazy.
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Im not deluded but it goes way beyond the manager, the culture at the club stinks and theres no plan.
Random signings like Antony Onana and Mount etc, c****s for owners, clueless CEOs, players poor attitudes so many things need addressing.
Lets hope SJR puts it right but Im not convinced because its a huge task, I`d love to be more positive but the evidence points to failure at the moment.
 
JammyRed said:
Im not deluded but it goes way beyond the manager, the culture at the club stinks and theres no plan.
Random signings like Antony Onana and Mount etc, c****s for owners, clueless CEOs, players poor attitudes so many things need addressing.
Lets hope SJR puts it right but Im not convinced because its a huge task, I`d love to be more positive but the evidence points to failure at the moment.
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Do you honestly believe every club above us or operating at a better level performance wise has a perfect club structure? Do you think they can spend like we can? There isn't an excuse for the manager via this route. Other clubs are dealing with far worse circumstances and their managers are still getting on with it, getting on with making some team tactics and some good signings; keeping their team happy and just dealing with what they have. A friend said to me the other day, he just can't feel sorry for a club that spends like we do, and you know what? He's right. There's no excuse to have a shit team spending this much money and we have to stop crying about the people behind the manager. Yes, the support can be improved, but it's not the reason for this teams current failings and people just need to wake up to it.
 
Jayc1860 said:
Do you honestly believe every club above us or operating at a better level performance wise has a perfect club structure? Do you think they can spend like we can? There isn't an excuse for the manager via this route. Other clubs are dealing with far worse circumstances and their managers are still getting on with it, getting on with making some team tactics and some good signings; keeping their team happy and just dealing with what they have. A friend said to me the other day, he just can't feel sorry for a club that spends like we do, and you know what? He's right. There's no excuse to have a shit team spending this much money and we have to stop crying about the people behind the manager. Yes it can be improved, but it's not the reason for this teams current failings and people just need to wake up to it.
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I wasn't supporting the manager he`s made some rotten signings and makes some terrible decisions what Im saying is the next manager will still have a lot to deal with. I think we might struggle getting the right man too, a PROPER manager will think twice about taking it on.
 
JammyRed said:
I think we might struggle getting the right man too, a PROPER manager will think twice about taking it on.
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I think that has been the problem for quite some time. We might search for the right manager forever.... This is football, and it's why managers are often sacked. You need to find the right fit, and I just believe ETH is not a fit for us and it couldn't be more clear at this point.

Back on topic - Sancho; 1 game 1 assist.
Luke shaw sends him love. Not something I would do if my team mate was a total wanker. Didn't train well and was just a disaster in general.
 
Yeah because there is no way Sancho could be a poor trainer but be good friends with any of his team mates.

United fans are driving me away from football. It isn’t the team I detest it’s this unwavering arrogance and entitlement that they have a right to win but not ready to accept things take time so they hound each manager out press the reset button and wonder why we start again every 2 years and nothing ever changes.

But hey ho you’re right maybe sack another man that started well got us a trophy and see you here again in 2 years moaning about the next manager you were clamouring for at the time.
 
SuperRash said:
I take on face value what I have seen from Sancho in a United shirt. It has been an underwhelming spell at best.
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I have said I agree he should go ok.

But tell me, which players are not underwhelming at the moment? If Hojlund went to Germany and banged in 20 goals would you be saying he can only do it Germany?

Please don't conflate the points I'm trying to make

I agree he should be sold, I don't agree with all this petty nonsense about him, we don't know he's a poor trainer, we have ETH word against Sancho, if you want to believe ETH fair enough. Until there is proof of this I won't.

Doing bad at united, then well in Germany does not make the German league sub standard, nor does it mean a player couldn't perform in a decently coached side in the prem. Every player at united is performing way under level.

And we need to ask why the coach can't get anything out of this group of players. 18 months and still no playing system. I'm amazed some fans alarm bells aren't ringing. 9 league losses. If we lose today it's a 50% win rate.

Likewise backing ETH even though we can see, and results tell us he's not good enough, just because we made a mistake sacking other managers is a crazy view.

We can't keep a terrible manager just because we sacked other good managers

The club hasn't improved one jot in 18 months. In fact I'd say it's regressed
 
Sancho was apparently poor today. It would seem the loan move is unfortunately not going to plan.
 
He just doesn’t appear to have the real hunger and drive you need to be a top player. This was his chance to really stamp his authority and say I am a great player. Sadly nothing he has done so far in his loan spell suggests that.

If this continues to be a rotten loan move then he’s going to be tough to sell. Perhaps another that just lingers around on top wages until he can leave for free.
 
Played 70 minutes vs PSV the other night.

From what I read he was barely in the game.
 
Loan spell isn’t going well:

“But they were disappointed once again. The BVB star showed another poor performance against Hoffenheim and was probably the worst player on the pitch.”

Source: Der Weston
 
I hope it isn't the case but to me he sounds like a player who's never going to get back to the levels we saw early on in his career.

Dortmund are a bit of a mess this season so was unlikely he'd go back in and look like a superstar again.
 
Would he have been subbed after 75 minutes if was playing well, especially with Dortmund chasing an equaliser? He has been at Dortmund for nearly 2 months, I suspect the sub wasn’t match fitness related.
 
7 games so far on loan 5 starts, hasn't completed 90 minutes yet.

2 assists in the first two games but none since, hasn't scored yet.

Wouldn't read to much into him being subbed they've got quite a few attacking players and forwards are normally the players that get changed later in games for fresh legs.
 

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