Liverpool Discussion 2022/23

Justin Cider

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Nice to see TAA and van Dijk finally being found out for the average defenders they are. Long may it continue.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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10th on 10 points. They've only won 2 matches all season. Hopefully the last few seasons have finally caught up with them.
 

SuperRash

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Early days obviously but glad we didn’t spend all that money on Nunez! Some of his decision making yesterday was shocking and showed a distinct lack of footballing intelligence. How did he not pass to Salah when it was 3 on 1.

He may well come good and first seasons can be hard to adjust into but not impressed at all yet.
 

Mr C

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I think he was a waste, however I do think they will make top 4
 

jsp

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Think you judge him after a season not a few weeks.

There's definitely something there to work with but he has to be more of a team player.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I'm sure the well balanced and reasonable folks over at RAWK are taking a long term view. :p

He's got 2 league goals and a red card to his name so far. Had we paid £85m for those early returns, everyone involved would be getting slaughtered.
 

jsp

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I'm sure the well balanced and reasonable folks over at RAWK are taking a long term view. :p

He's got 2 league goals and a red card to his name so far. Had we paid £85m for those early returns, everyone involved would be getting slaughtered.

Well it's £64m plus add ons if you want to split hairs.

I think there's huge potential there but right now he looks like he's a head down forward who just wants to score he hasn't yet clocked the team player part that goes with being a top player.

Hopefully he does turn out to be a massive flop.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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From what little I've seen of him, he reminds me a bit of Drogba, with the huge powerful element to his game that could be a good foil for Salah. If he can occupy/bully CBs and Salah/whomever is fit can run off him, they could be lethal. Hopefully he's started as he means to continue.
 

jsp

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Yeah Cavani is the obvious comparison bit of a battering ram due to the physical attributes he has.

It's scary what clubs pay for potential these days £64m plus £21m of add ons for a guy who had 1 stand out season in Portugal.
 

jsp

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Jota out until after the world cup.

Injuries just keep coming for them this season.
 

IDFD

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Deservedly so too they were very poor.

Henderson made a few nice saves late on though.
 

SuperRash

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I think their defence and midfield just isn’t good enough at the moment and is being found out. TAA and Gomez for me aren’t very good defenders. Henderson and Milner are ageing in the midfield. They also really miss Mane.

I do love a good Liverpool struggle.
 

RVN

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I mean, Big Sam and Neil Warnock are twiddling their thumbs, if the owner's trigger finger is becoming itchy.
 

Mr C

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Been put up for sale, lucky buggers.

Up steps Jim Ratcliffe no doubt
 

jsp

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I think for him that would be a bit of a step to far a life long Utd fan is never going to be accepted by them.

Sounds like FSG just want to cash out they've rebuilt the clubs value it must be worth a hell of a lot more than they paid for it so why not off load it.

The state funded clubs are making it pretty much impossible to compete and without the super league I don't think they ever see a route to profit and sustainability so might as well cash in on the asset and put the money somewhere else.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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If this sale goes ahead, it should pretty much set United's value for all to see. Not sure if this is a good thing as it might be more than regular billionaires (eg., SJR) are willing to pay. Conversely, it might remove any allusion that the Glazer's can get £6bn+ and they might take the money now or realize they need to invest in the infrastructure to increase United's value, like FSG did.
 

jsp

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If this sale goes ahead, it should pretty much set United's value for all to see. Not sure if this is a good thing as it might be more than regular billionaires (eg., SJR) are willing to pay. Conversely, it might remove any allusion that the Glazer's can get £6bn+ and they might take the money now or realize they need to invest in the infrastructure to increase United's value, like FSG did.

Forbes value Utd at £3.7bn, Liverpool £3.6bn and Chelsea at £2.5bn (what they were actually sold for). These valuations aren’t what clubs are actually worth they’re a guide Liverpool owners I would guess value the club at around £4bn

I don’t think it means anything to Utd and our chances of a sale Utd is a golden goose to them an asset they put nothing into and can take out on average £20m a year in dividends. The Glazers just don’t seem like motivated sellers at this point and approach to them about potential sale seems to be quickly shot down.

As long as they can keep taking £20m out a year they are going nowhere.

The motivation for FSG to sell seems to be that they’re looking to buy an NBA team so they want to cash out on Liverpool and reinvest that money into a new venture. I think they see the inevitable which is a football club will never provide you a steady dividend because you are in competition with other owners who are willing to sign off huge losses.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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That's why I think the Liverpool sale will be instructive. According to the share price, as of Nov 4th, United were worth $2.13bn USD or £1.85bn. The Glazers don't even take calls at that price. Say, Liverpool goes for £4-ish bn and United are valued at £4.3-ish bn through an actual market comp. Considering they "acquired" the asset for nothing, and its now worth a good £2+ bn over share price, the pro-sale voices within the Glazer family will grow stronger.

Like FSG, the Glazers are into United for the cash. Yes, £20m per annum for doing nothing is lovely, but it'd take 50 years for them to accrue £1bn, let alone £4-ish bn, and if rumours are to be believed, the Glazers sans Joel, are keen to sell up and cash in. An actual market valuation at almost $5bn USD for an asset you didn't even pay for, and haven't invested in might hopefully be too tempting to pass up.

Af course, this is entirely speculative as Joel appears to be in control of the family and he shows no signs of wanting to sell, however, with the price of borrowing money increasing, and the inevitability of the costs to renovate OT and Carrington coming out of pocket, perhaps this is the time the family choose to cash in. Realistically, nobody knows, but if they are faced with the reality of a £4+bn profit and they turn it down, we're stuck with them for life.
 

Mr C

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The Glazers aren't going to spend any money on fascilities or the ground. I have a feeling they are looking to win the prem or the CL and sell at high profile when the club behind the scenes is rock bottom.
 

jsp

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That's why I think the Liverpool sale will be instructive. According to the share price, as of Nov 4th, United were worth $2.13bn USD or £1.85bn. The Glazers don't even take calls at that price. Say, Liverpool goes for £4-ish bn and United are valued at £4.3-ish bn through an actual market comp. Considering they "acquired" the asset for nothing, and its now worth a good £2+ bn over share price, the pro-sale voices within the Glazer family will grow stronger.

Like FSG, the Glazers are into United for the cash. Yes, £20m per annum for doing nothing is lovely, but it'd take 50 years for them to accrue £1bn, let alone £4-ish bn, and if rumours are to be believed, the Glazers sans Joel, are keen to sell up and cash in. An actual market valuation at almost $5bn USD for an asset you didn't even pay for, and haven't invested in might hopefully be too tempting to pass up.

Af course, this is entirely speculative as Joel appears to be in control of the family and he shows no signs of wanting to sell, however, with the price of borrowing money increasing, and the inevitability of the costs to renovate OT and Carrington coming out of pocket, perhaps this is the time the family choose to cash in. Realistically, nobody knows, but if they are faced with the reality of a £4+bn profit and they turn it down, we're stuck with them for life.

Think you've missed the point they use Utd as a cash machine the £20m a year is their spending money it's liquid and they can touch it while in the background the family holds an asset that is worth fortunes. As a business owner you need some of your business to pay you a dividend each your that funds your lifestyle. In a way they treat Utd like people treat second homes with no mortgage the rent is just money in your pocket to do as you please with in the short term and in the long term you hold an asset that grows in value with no further investment.

FSG never got themselves in that position to actually take money out and pay themselves. It was also buy it cheap, grow it then sell it. To stick to the property plan they were someone who had the cash to buy a run down house, carry out the refurbishment then sell it and bank the profit and move on to the next one.

A very different model.

The Glazers don't need access to billions it'll do nothing sitting in the bank so unless they plan to invest that money elsewhere for a greater return than they can currently get from Utd there is no reason to sell. The current generation inherited it from their dad when he died I honestly think they could pass it on to their kids when they croak. The only way they'd sell the club is if they suddenly needed quick access to cash or if the club could no longer service it's debt and the banks forced a sale.
 

jsp

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Basically become a forgotten man for them had rotten luck with injuries.
 

jsp

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Another big blow to Liverpool's behind the scenes as their sporting director Julian Ward announced he's leaving at the end of the season.

He took over from Michael Edwards in the summer having worked closely with him both were very close with Klopp and were considered key parts of the success Liverpool have had recently in the transfer market.

With new owners also likely to come in the near future it seems like it's all change at Anfield.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I'd suspect one side would start putting up walls and impeach the good name of the other and then son in law's start shooting their mouths off... and then it's a Mexican standoff.
 

jsp

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I don't see it happening I'd like to think that Liverpool/Utd fans given our size would be able to see of these sort of bidders as we don't want to see our clubs used for the purpose of sports washing.

Problem is we don't really get a say who the clubs are sold to as the current owners are going to take the best offer on the table they don't really care where it comes from.
 

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