Lisandro Martinez | Match Discussion thread 2022/23

jsp

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I do think we need a bigger sample size than 2 games before we totally write him off but he is going to have to prove he can handle that side of the game.

of the 6 goals conceded only 1 I’d say has come from direct play by the opponent which was Brentford’s fourth.

The tactic of being direct is to push us back into our own half the issue I see is even when we win the duel in the air or it leads to nothing we then try to play out and play ourselves into trouble.
 

RichH2016

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I do think we need a bigger sample size than 2 games before we totally write him off but he is going to have to prove he can handle that side of the game
I know what you mean... And I'm not saying he's a bad player but I don't actually think he's going to work out at CB. He's not big enough and PL teams are going to go after that. They did it with Blind and they'll do it with Martinez. The bigger guy is going to win 9 times out of 10. That's not his fault, he just doesn't fit the physical needs of the PL as a CB.
 

jsp

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I know what you mean... And I'm not saying he's a bad player but I don't actually think he's going to work out at CB. He's not big enough and PL teams are going to go after that. They did it with Blind and they'll do it with Martinez. The bigger guy is going to win 9 times out of 10. That's not his fault, he just doesn't fit the physical needs of the PL as a CB.

As a team you have to work to protect that though and theyre likely still working that out.

De Gea needs to get off his line and sweep some of the balls in behind.

The holding midfielder needs to get in front and help challenge for those direct balls in the air.

The stats suggest Martinez doesn’t struggle to win his one vs one duels.

He had no time in pre season but he’s going to have a fight on his hand if he shows weakness same way Lindelof has problems when physical sides play on him and fast players look to get in behind Maguire when he’s high up the pitch.
 

RichH2016

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As a team you have to work to protect that though and theyre likely still working that out.
I agree with that to some extent. I just don't think United can. You say De Gea needs to come off his line more and sweep up but he doesn't do that. The holding midfielders they have ahead of Martinez either aren't very big, aren't very good or both. And to be honest I'm not sure you can just protect him like that. He needs to hold his own otherwise he becomes a liability to the team.

And I like Martinez I think he's a good player. I just don't think he's going to be a very good CB in the PL.
 

jsp

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I agree with that to some extent. I just don't think United can. You say De Gea needs to come off his line more and sweep up but he doesn't do that. The holding midfielders they have ahead of Martinez either aren't very big, aren't very good or both. And to be honest I'm not sure you can just protect him like that. He needs to hold his own otherwise he becomes a liability to the team.

And I like Martinez I think he's a good player. I just don't think he's going to be a very good CB in the PL.

I think he will hold his own there were plenty of 6ft strikers in Holland and he held his own. He hasn’t been getting beaten in the air over and over in these games he lost 1 header on a set piece.

The direct play I think is a tactic teams are using because they know there’s a huge void behind our defence that the keeper won’t even try to cover. Teams know get the ball in our half quickly and you can make it stick in there and Utd will make mistakes playing out.

I‘ll give it 10 games before I pass judgement on him hopefully the team work it out and clearly new players will help.
 

RichH2016

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And look you may be right. It is early days and I don't think he's been a disaster by any means. And in fact I think he's shown some good qualities. I just don't think he's going to succeed as a CB and if he does then it won't be with this current defense. The GK, RB, CB and LB plus CM needs to change.
 

Justin Cider

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He'll be fine at CB once he gets up to the pace and physicality of the Premier League, and it will happen a lot quicker if he gets more help from De Gea, Shaw and McTominay than he currently is.
 

RichH2016

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His breakout game. People will stop doubting him now.
Let's not get carried away. He was excellent and absolutely you'd hope that he can go on from here. And he's still in the early days in his United career so nobody should write him off. But let's not forget Liverpool are a team who get the ball down and play which suits him more. Other teams are going to target him aerially.
 

Mr C

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He sounded brilliant, no height in the Liverpool team so we need to see how that goes, but Varane and Malacia along side him semmed to make a difference. We need to somehow keep Varane fit.
 

Panfc

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He was not bad at all, but this was against Firmino, same build, who kept dropping into midfield. Varane was the one clearing everything. Besides, this was Liverpool. With the atmosphere on top of that, it’s easy to find your best. No, I’m not convinced at all.
 

jsp

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Not sure he was that bad in the first 2 matches given he'd had no pre season to settle in. he is as good in the air as the other centre backs, he makes tackles, he's aggressive and he can play.

Last night I think he answered a lot of the early critics and I was a bit surprised to see Carragher go after him so early regarding the direct play.
 

Mr C

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As I said earlier, he was bad, thats why he was subbed.

But true, he does need time to adjust to teams who target him. I definitley think with the experience of Varane alongside it will make settling in much easier.
 

RichH2016

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I think the problem he's going to have is teams are going to go after him aerially. Now I know he's not terrible in the air and I know in the Dutch league he did pretty well but it's going to be different for him. Teams are going to go after him and target that height. And whilst he may win 75% of his battles teams are going to go after it and that's going to lead to chances. It just is.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I think the problem he's going to have is teams are going to go after him aerially. Now I know he's not terrible in the air and I know in the Dutch league he did pretty well but it's going to be different for him. Teams are going to go after him and target that height. And whilst he may win 75% of his battles teams are going to go after it and that's going to lead to chances. It just is.
Or it’s going to tempt teams into changing their style of play in an attempt to target his lack of height.
It’s only 3 matches and I’d assume ETH is aware of how tall he is and will have a plan. I’m not worried.
 

Mr C

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I think playing with Varane will make a difference, he will boss that defence around and put a piece of calm in there. It's crucial he stays fit.
 

Mr C

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cant link the vid :-(

not seen this desire from a CB for a long while!
 

Sideshow Bob

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Premier League: Southampton 0-1 Manchester United - 27th August 2022

Back to back warrior like performances.
 

IDFD

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As I said in the match day thread. Man of the match today.

He not only wants the ball he wants a bit of the man too.
 

jsp

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Thought Adams gave him some problems today but he handle him well and maybe got the lucky break first half when he lost Adams who hit his shot straight at the keeper.

Hard not to love Martinez though he’s looks a very good player.
 

SuperRash

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Love his attitude and warrior like instincts. Another very good performance today. He’s one you would want in the trenches with you.
 

RVN

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Love his attitude and warrior like instincts. Another very good performance today. He’s one you would want in the trenches with you.
Something that we have not been able to say about this team. I'd add Malacia in there too.
 

boothstownred

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Watched him carefully today. Didn't lose one header. Partly because he is smart enough not to go for the header if he doesn't think he will win it. He will be a fans favourite and opposition fans will hate him
 

RVN

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Watched him carefully today. Didn't lose one header. Partly because he is smart enough not to go for the header if he doesn't think he will win it. He will be a fans favourite and opposition fans will hate him
Oh how long we have waited for a no nonsense hard as nails CB. Just highlights the difference between Varane and Maguire in how you marshall your defence.
 

IDFD

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He went 5/5 aerial duels won and had 100% ground duels won 4 interceptions and 7 clearances.
 

jsp

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He's looked better since we stopped messing about with the ball at the back and trying to play out.

The first two games we were our own worst enemies I think the change in tactics is as much responsible as the change in personnel at the back.
 

Mr C

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That doesn't account for Brighton and Brentford saying they targeted him.

I don't think Varane gets enough credit for how he organises that defence. Him being in there has definitley made a difference.
 

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