Juventus Discussion 2022/23

[jsp]

Expected to announce the signing of Pogba today having signed Di Maria last week.

They do love an out of contract player don't they.

Fair to say most Man Utd fans will be cheering for whoever Juventus are playing this season with those 2 in the team.

 

[Mr C]

Pogba had to take a wage less than united offered him, nob.

 

[jsp]

The way they report the wages is slightly different, in England they report your gross salary in Italy they report your net salary.

Probably is on less money than Utd offered but I suspect Utd's offer would have seen him take a 25% cut this season with no CL football.

I am interested to see how he does back at Juventus because at is age now he's expect to lead that team he hasn't got the senior players around him to keep an eye on him and get him out of trouble.

 

[Justin Cider]

We'll probably buy him back again when he's 31 for £45m when he's finally worked out you only get out what you put in, and how to function effectively in a two.

 

[Mr C]

Pogba out with knee problem. Lesion in the miniscus

 

[jsp]

Don't wish injury on anyone but this was a big worry I had with giving him a new contract.

The injuries were starting to hit him he was missing big chunks of every season and for a player who relies on his speed and running power I felt he was going to lose some of his impact.

 

[Justin Cider]

I wouldn't normally wish injury on anyone ....

 

[jsp]

Speaking of injury prone centre mids Aaron Ramsay has agreed to end his contract a year early and become a free agent.

 

[Justin Cider]

Speaking of injury prone centre mids Aaron Ramsay has agreed to end his contract a year early and become a free agent.

Probably end up at somewhere like Everton if he quarters his £400,000 a week salary.

 

[jsp]

My guess is MLS with Bale.

Can't see a premier league team touching him he did naff all at Rangers maybe drop to the Championship but with the world cup he might not want that heavy schedule.

I always thought he was a bit over rated never saw consistency for him in club games but when he played up top with Bale for the national team they were devastating.

 

[Justin Cider]

Never understood the disappointment when he chose Arsenal over United to be honest, apart from ghosting into the area like a poor mans Bryan Robson occasionally to score a few goals he has never looked anything above average.

I've often watched games and forgotten he was playing.

What convinced Juve to give him a £400,000 a week contract will forever remain a mystery, maybe they thought they were signing Gordon Ramsey instead, who knows, and frankly who cares.

Obviously if he signs for United on a free in the next few days he will instantly become the best Welsh midfielder of his generation

 

[jsp]

Juventus just love a bosman signing they've snapped up loads of them in the last decade because they hit the jackpot in Pirlo and Pogba they've been chasing that dream again. They did alright with Khedira but Ramsey/Rabiot flopped big time.

The wages were always a bit exaggerated because of the way the wages are reported he wasn't earning £400k a week. He was paid 7m euro a year after tax at Juventus and tax was very low for him only around 20% due to the tax laws in Italy at that time.

I quite liked him but he'd never fit in the team with Rooney as he's at his best playing that number 10 spot off a striker. Wonderful technique and eye for a goal but not good enough to play in central midfield and dominate games.

 

[Mr C]

France's Pogba a World Cup doubt after knee surgery

France midfielder Paul Pogba is a doubt for the World Cup in Qatar later this year after having knee surgery.

www.bbc.com

 

[jsp]

Fitness was an under rated reason for dumping him in his last few seasons with us he was picking up more and more injuries and they were taking away key parts of his game.

 

[Cruella ne Ville]

If there was a list of unfulfilled talent, he'd be near the top.

 

[jsp]

If there was a list of unfulfilled talent, he'd be near the top.

Which is crazy for a lad who's won multiple titles in Italy, Europa League, Premier League runner up, World Cup and Euros runner up.

Lets be honest Pogba is a bit of an ar*e at times but he's had a very good career and fulfilled a lot of his potential.

Compare him to some of his team mates from that youth cup winning side in 2011 if you want to see wasted potential look no further than Ravel Morrison.

 

[IDFD]

He won the world cup and put on a clinic in the final.

No one but United fans will think he hasn't fulfilled his potential.

 

[jsp]

Without opening up the argument Utd fans are probably right to say he didn't fulfil his potential as for 6 years at Utd he had very few memorable games and moments. Not all his fault but following the bust up with Mourinho in 2018 he was never the same for us and he should have gone.

There was/is a hugely talented player there but consistency has always been a problem and he always needed good players around him he was never a player who I felt made other players around him look better it was very much the other way around.

 

[IDFD]

He was in the Seria A team of the year 3 years running. He was in the premier League team of the year. The FIFpro world team of the year. He was one of the best players at the world cup whilst going on to win it.

It didn't work for him at United but he's going to look back on his career and think he's had a great one and rightly so.

Tell a Juventus or French fan that Pogba didn't live up to the hype around him and they'd think you were crazy. The guy performed at such a high level we made him the world record transfer.

 

[jsp]

Yeah but how many of those awards happened in a Utd shirt? Since the world cup 2018 which to me feels like the peak of his career I don't think he's been the same player and that for me the was the launch point for him to go from being remembered as a good player to being remembered as a great player.

That steps requires consistency and Pogba just didn't have that he was in an unsettled team during an unsettled period at Utd maybe had he left sooner he might have made more of an influence in the 4 years since the world cup but he just hasn't.

I'd say if he stopped now and we could go forward 20 years and people bring up Paul Pogba I think people would say he had a good career but not a great one. With the talent he had he could have been a great player.

It would be a shame if he missed the world cup through injury as it felt like after this one there will be a changing of the guard in that national team so it would have been good to see that generation have 1 last crack to see if they could retain it.

 

[IDFD]

I'd say if he stopped now and we could go forward 20 years and people bring up Paul Pogba I think people would say he had a good career but not a great one. With the talent he had he could have been a great player.

This was my point. He'll be remembered as a good player in England. But around the world he'll be remembered as a great. His levels of performance were something we didn't manage to get the best of but also he was dragged down. Much like Maguire now everything about him was hyper analysed. This isn't the case around the world where most wondered what on earth we were doing handicapping our best player by asking him to do defensive work which he can't do.

Once he's over his injury and puts a few fantastic performances in for Juve people will be wondering why we never got that Pogba.

Someone put it best in the Casemiro signing thread. United finally made the signing needed to get the best out of Pogba. It was criminal we never got a DM to get the best out of him.

 

[Mr C]

Part of the blame for Pogba at united has to go down to what was going on behind the scenes. Just look at the players now, the ones that looked absolutely dog sh!t now seem to be able to play.

 

[jsp]

Well they spent 50m on Fred and 40m on Matic so it wasn't like they didn't try they just didn't find the right one although Pogba's best season 2018 and 2020 (post lockdown) both came playing alongside Matic.

If he was a truly great player he'd have worked out how to play with the players at Utd and influence these games that is what the great midfielders do they adapt to what is around them and what is happening in games. Pogba couldn't do that he just wanted to play his way and that is what annoyed Mourinho and it's why I think Ole shifted him wide in the end.

At his best for France and Juve he was surrounded by top quality players who knew their job and they I feel kept Pogba in check at Utd that didn't really happen. A top player doesn't need to be told because he knows what to do.

I liked Pogba I felt at times he got a raw deal from Utd fans who were never going to forgive him for leaving the first time but in the end everyone lost out on him coming back. Pogba wasted 4 years of his career in a club that he didn't want to be at and Utd spent a fortune on him in terms of wages and lost transfer fee.

 

[Cruella ne Ville]

There was/is a hugely talented player there but consistency has always been a problem and he always needed good players around him he was never a player who I felt made other players around him look better it was very much the other way around.

Someone put it best in the Casemiro signing thread. United finally made the signing needed to get the best out of Pogba. It was criminal we never got a DM to get the best out of him.

Part of the blame for Pogba at united has to go down to what was going on behind the scenes. Just look at the players now, the ones that looked absolutely dog sh!t now seem to be able to play.

This is my point. He has talent oozing from every pore, yet while other truly world class players raise the levels of those around them, Pogba seems to need the right mix of player and situation/culture around him in order to be successful. During his first stint at Juve he had Pirlo beside him. Kante for France. At United when he was expected to raise the levels, he couldn't for one excuse/reason or another. He should be bossing the midfield, and given his build and athleticism, should be unplayable, yet he was anything but.

Also, he's at the peak of his career and nobody knows his best position? Somebody that talented should've grabbed a position and made the rest of football name it after him.

 

[jsp]

This is my point. He has talent oozing from every pore, yet while other truly world class players raise the levels of those around them, Pogba seems to need the right mix of player and situation/culture around him in order to be successful. During his first stint at Juve he had Pirlo beside him. Kante for France. At United when he was expected to raise the levels, he couldn't for one excuse/reason or another. He should be bossing the midfield, and given his build and athleticism, should be unplayable, yet he was anything but.

Also, he's at the peak of his career and nobody knows his best position? Somebody that talented should've grabbed a position and made the rest of football name it after him.

Think the point is even despite all this he's still achieved way more than most people do in the game there's so many kids who get that "wonder kid" tag who go on to do very little.

Golden Boy (award) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Every year journalists give out the "golden boy" award to the best U21 player in the world it's far from an exact science but Pogba won that award in 2013 and so far there have been 19 winners. Of the 19 winners I'd say only 5 (Rooney, Messi, Fabregas, Aguero, Sterling, Mbappe) have had careers that match or exceed what Pogba has done in the game.

The most recent winners it's still to early to tell what Haaland and Pedri will achieve but lets be honest it looks like those 2 are going to have great careers which would leave him sort of in the middle of the field in terms of the players who've won that award.

It'll always be a bit "what if" with Pogba and some of his issues are I think self inflicted he lives in the "Paul Pogba Bubble" where no one really tells him things he doesn't want to hear. When he arrived at Utd there wasn't really a core of players to lay down the law and Mourinho I felt was trying to change his game and teach him a new role which I don't think Pogba enjoyed as it put responsibility on him but it was a role he had to learn.

For £90m especially back in 2016 you'd expect to be signing the finished product reality was we weren't getting the finished product he still had a lot to learn.

 

[Cruella ne Ville]

Sure there are other players who have failed to live up to the hype as well. Alexandre Pato is another one who would be up there on my list. Achievements in their career is a dodgy way to compare a player's talent to outcomes though. Lukaku has a laundry list of personal achievements. Didier Deschamps has won a truckload of titles but neither are nearly as talented at Pogba. Pogba can't even nail down his best position.

 

[jsp]

Pato kind of went down the Anderson route he loved the life off the pitch more than the life on it and there's only so long before you get found out if you're hitting the nightclubs every night and living the high life.

Lukaku has had a great career though but his trophy haul isn't he won naff all win us and got a league title at Inter don't think he was ever around long enough at Chelsea to pick up a pot or two in his first spell. I'd say he made the most of what he had in his locker.

In terms of the number 9's of his generation there wont be many with better goal scoring records for club and country than him but I'd say he's just a level short of the truly world class players he never quite moved up to the bracket of Benzema, Lewendowski, Kane, Suarez etc.

It's relative though Deschamps was one of the best holding midfield players of his generation playing in those great Juventus sides and the France side of the late 90's.

 

[Mr C]

Entire board resigns over false accouting claims

 

[jsp]

2 years ago Agnelli was probably the most powerful president in european football.

Burned most of it with the failed attempt at the super league.

The clubs that went for the super league. Barca and Juventus board are gone and could face charges in court, Utd/Liverpool up for sale and Chelsea sold. Hasn't gone well for them has it.

 

[Mr C]

Just been reading they could be relegated

Pogba in Serie B hahaha

 

[jsp]

Might be PogBack to Man Utd again.

Be hilarious if they got relegated again.

 

[jsp]

UEFA are looking into their FFP situation as well.

 

[Cruella ne Ville]

Ironic how FFP has really impacted the smaller clubs, and the oil clubs it was designed to curtail have continually skirted it/openly flaunted it. I mean, Juve don't exactly have a history of playing by the rules, and I have no sympathy for them, but when City/PSG can continually spend what they want and invent revenue streams to 'comply' with FFP yet Everton are facing a potential penalty, there's something wrong.

Also, I understand that times change, but when traditionally great clubs like Ajax, Juve, Milan, Barca (bleech) are struggling to make ends meet, and resorting to pulling levers and accounting machinations, football needs fixing.

 

[jsp]

Ironic how FFP has really impacted the smaller clubs, and the oil clubs it was designed to curtail have continually skirted it/openly flaunted it. I mean, Juve don't exactly have a history of playing by the rules, and I have no sympathy for them, but when City/PSG can continually spend what they want and invent revenue streams to 'comply' with FFP yet Everton are facing a potential penalty, there's something wrong.

Also, I understand that times change, but when traditionally great clubs like Ajax, Juve, Milan, Barca (bleech) are struggling to make ends meet, and resorting to pulling levers and accounting machinations, football needs fixing.

Both City and PSG have had penalties for breaking the rules but they were only fines or reduction in squad sizes. The loophole on time restraints is what got City off the hook a few years back where UEFA had them bang to rights but to much time had passed to charge them so they basically said you cheated but we can't do anything about it now. If they'd caught them earlier then it's very likely City would have been banned from europe for a few years for cooking the books.

What is interesting is the Premier League has been investigating City for years and they still haven't decided what to do with that case as they probably don't want to the hassle of stripping them of titles.

The way I kind of see it is no one forced these clubs to spend money they didn't have which is what happened to Milan, Inter and Barca they made that decision and paid the price.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

15 point deduction!