Ivan Toney

I thought his on target/conversion would have changed more significantly that that, mind I did try and work it out quickly in my head, never a good idea ....

I thought the same but looks like I might have got my numbers wrong. the FPL app must count stats in a different way it says 182 shots in total, 72 on target, 70 off target which is only 142. I remembered when I checked them that it was roughly 70 on target and 70 off target so did them roughly based on that.

So my numbers were off 140 shots total not 182.

It's odd because accuracy has been done off 140 shots on the FPL app but conversion is based off 183 shots.

They must be counting blocked shots in the conversion stats which seems a strange way of doing it.
 
so who are you going to buy to bring goals?

In January I wouldn't buy anyone as the best players aren't going to be available, there's talk of a cheap move for Chupo-Moting or this other guy with the release clause (guirassy?) they might provide you with an option for the rest of this season and next. It's probably one of them that might come in as a bit of a punt in the way Ighalo and Weghorst did in previous seasons.

In the summer I'd probably be looking for an out of contract senior striker to come in and back up Hojlund. Someone like a Giroud who won't expect to play every game but can take the load off Hojlund and probably play the europa league games. With the benefit of hindsight I'd have got Raul Jiminez in from Wolves this summer along with Hojlund as something short term. I just think with Hojlund we've backed him as our guy now we need to stick with him and help him.

To me the wide players need to be upping their game not just in terms of their own finishing which this season has been poor but also how they work as a collective to create chances for each other. I'm hoping that a front 3 of Rashford/Hojlund/Garnacho given a run of games together second half of the season might get a bit of an understanding going but there needs to be others who can come off the bench to help when one of these is injured.

I'd also be spending a lot more time on set pieces we get a lot of corners and free kicks around the box and hardly ever convert them into goals. My worry here is there are just to many people in our team that don't attack the ball in the air very well and it's why I think at the other end we also struggle with defending on set pieces.
 
United need to strengthen that porous midfield practically any team waltzes through it like it didn't exist, get control of a game in the middle and it will surprise you how many more chances we`ll create. Everton want £60M for Onana apparently, that would be a start.
 
I think we need to address the problem in January. However I do agree Toney is going nowhere in January.

We cannot carry on the season like this, miss top 4 and ETH is gone so I think he'll do something. We need to somehow get the ball in the back of the net.

There are two things you can do, change the manager, or change the players, I don't think the manager is going anywhere. From bits I have read over the weekend, just gossip granted, the Ineos team see the problem as the players. And there could be some big names leaving, how the fans deal with that is another issue.

So we do need to bring someone in in January. Atletico are after loaning out Morata or Felix, but I'm not sure on either of those to be honest. Depay is available on loan

There are a few young players in Ligue 1, but their numbers aren't brilliant, and a couple have just signed new deals.

Vlahovic at Juve has good numbers, might be worth chasing in the summer
 
I think the top 4 is already gone we are 9 points behind plus an extra point with the goal difference situation, we aren't going to catch 10 points up on Arsenal in 18 games.

I just don't think we can spend money now think everyone probably needs to accept we've probably made the exact same mistakes we did under Ole and signed a load of players that don't solve our problems.

Really it's about planning for the summer so that whatever we spend this summer actually makes us better because chucking money at the problem isn't working. What needs to be sorted if the decision making around signings and how we plan our transfer windows as currently it's a disaster.

I don't think Vlahovic is the right guy he's not been great at Juventus, he's had a better season this year but they're going to want mega money for him because they paid so much for him and won't want to let him go.
 
I just don't think we can spend money now think everyone probably needs to accept we've probably made the exact same mistakes we did under Ole and signed a load of players that don't solve our problems.
I'm talking loans here

Compared to Hojlunds numbers in the same league, his (Vlahovic) figures are excellent. But yes he will cost a lot. But thats what we need, and a decent striker will cost a lot, considering mediocre ones cost 70m these days

Its going to be a tough call to make by the new structure. We certainly need goals. Two seasons now with low goals, take out Rashford last season and it looks bad. The numbers for the team are low. Which you've got say, is down to the manager, but that's another thread.

100m for Toney seems about the going rate for a striker with goals.
 
I'm talking loans here

Compared to Hojlunds numbers in the same league, his (Vlahovic) figures are excellent. But yes he will cost a lot. But thats what we need, and a decent striker will cost a lot, considering mediocre ones cost 70m these days

Its going to be a tough call to make by the new structure. We certainly need goals. Two seasons now with low goals, take out Rashford last season and it looks bad. The numbers for the team are low. Which you've got say, is down to the manager, but that's another thread.

100m for Toney seems about the going rate for a striker with goals.

When it comes to loans it's probably someone like Chupo-Moting who isn't getting much playing time at Bayern and they've got that youngster Tel as backup to Kane.

Yeah Vlahovic 2 years ago (whenever he went to Juve) was hot property he was the much touted next big thing but his time at Juventus but his time there has been hit and miss. Seems to be coming out of a bad run recently though and started scoring again, I think Juventus will be sticking with him whereas 6 months ago they'd have probably been happy to sell him.

Think it's longer than two seasons to be honest we've consistently struggled for goals since the last Fergie season to be honest. To me it's about the way for the forward players work together to create chances for themselves and others. They don't seem to work as a collective and create chances then have the skill/confidence to take them.

Toney to me feels like a player who stands out in the big games where Brentford play really well on the break but top sides face a different challenge in most games which is breaking down a packed defence. I don't think we've seen much evidence that he'll be a massive difference maker in sorting that problem it isn't like Hojlund is missing sitters there's just nothing being created where you think he should be burying that chance.

As for the going rate Arsenal got Jesus for about £60m which to me is probably about the price for a striker who's got a decent record but has not totally proven themselves to be top class. Toney only has 18 months left on his contract so Brentford probably have to sell him in the summer and in that situation I think they'll do well to get much more than £50m plus some bonuses.
 
it isn't like Hojlund is missing sitters there's just nothing being created
I'm not sure Hojlund takes up very good positions to be honest. I think a better/more experienced player gets more goals, but not bucket loads granted.

Hojlund was 70m, Jesus 60m, Nunez 75m+ You've got be looking above all of those for Toney, especially as an England player, prior to his ban, Kane get injured he probably would have been the no. 2

Theres going to be a fight for the top stikers too, Arsenal/United possibly Liverpool all searching
 
United need to strengthen that porous midfield practically any team waltzes through it like it didn't exist, get control of a game in the middle and it will surprise you how many more chances we`ll create. Everton want £60M for Onana apparently, that would be a start.
We play far too narrow, with inverted wingers that don't want to really get down the flanks. AWB as much as he tries he just isn't a very effective overlap, and with Luke Shaw in and out of the team we end up all bunched up centrally with no width. If I see see this then a good manager will and he will use it against us. This is the main reason we don't score goals currently. Yes adding some quality ball keepers for the central midfield is my priority too, but also having an outlet on at least one wing. For example, Saka comes inside a lot but he manages to use the wing too, and he has back up down his wing that is effective. That's the difference, and it's not even so much about that being insanely great, but more about stretching the opposition. Managers know Rashford is highly unlikely to go down his wing and cross the ball. Same for Antony. They just win a corner after shooting, or get nothing. Managers must love how we play now, it's so easy to counter. It has looked a little better when Garnacho plays down the right, but for most of the season this is the case.
 
I'm not sure Hojlund takes up very good positions to be honest. I think a better/more experienced player gets more goals, but not bucket loads granted.

Hojlund was 70m, Jesus 60m, Nunez 75m+ You've got be looking above all of those for Toney, especially as an England player, prior to his ban, Kane get injured he probably would have been the no. 2

Theres going to be a fight for the top stikers too, Arsenal/United possibly Liverpool all searching

I think there is room for improvement on his positioning but there are times where he's in the spot and our wide players decide to shoot rather than pass. It's worrying that 6 months in he doesn't seem to have built a single relationship with another member of the attacking line up, probably doesn't help that it's constantly changing but you'd hope he'd have a bit of an understanding going with someone.

It must be hard to read what the wingers are going to do in this side you never know when the ball is going to come in and a lot of the time it doesn't come in with quality. We are the masters of the loopy cross which a decent centre back is going to deal with all day at this level.

In terms of the benchmark for the price all 3 of those guys were younger than Toney is now when they moved. I don't think you are buying potential with Toney you are buying a finished product. Think Sterling went for £60m at a similar age so that's probably your benchmark for Toney

I think Utd need to find a bargain in the striker department and probably need to spend money on wide players. The Sancho/Anthony signings have been flops so we need to start looking at buying some new players for those positions which isn't going to be cheap.
 

Sounds like he's looking to stay at Brentford for the rest of the season.

If he has a decent second half of the season he's got a chance of going to the Euros although I think they'll only take 2 number 9's and take Watkins as the backup to Kane.
 
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I'm glad the mirror have decided our transfer strategy for next season before this one is even over. Rubbish.
 
I think Hojlund has shown enough to know that we don’t have to spend £100m on Toney. We do need to bring in reinforcements alongside Hojlund but can do it cheaper for sure.
 
Just don't see who's going to take him unless the price comes right down or players leave this summer.

For us I'd take him if he was in the £40-50m range as we need competition up front if we are in Europe next season.
 
Brentford have announced he’s likely to leave. He’s got 12 months left. The fee surely comes down to something reasonable. Be crazy not to be in for him.
 
I think Toney will go to whoever offers him the best wages he's had a decent career but he's never had a huge contract so I think he'll be leaving to whoever makes him the best offer.
 
His contract should dictate a lower price than £100m. I personally do think Brentford will hold out for that though as they probably know he is missing piece of the Arsenal puzzle.
 
I would want to see Hojlund start as many games as possible next season, signing Toney would stunt that for me somewhat. I totally get we need another striker but I don’t think Toney is where we need to be looking.

The money is best used elsewhere.
 
Toney would be an incredible signing for United. He’s a proven goalscorer in the PL and a really good all around player. But at that price? With Hojlund as the future star? Yeah it isn’t going to happen and probably wouldn’t happen. United need a striker for sure but spending that kind of money on one?
 
What do we think the actual price will be?

I don't see it going much above £50m in the summer.

I don't think he's actually good enough to be a starter at one of the champions league clubs, he's going to be 28 in the summer so there's no re-sale value, his betting ban must be a concern for any club signing him.

He could be a decent squad player for clubs like Utd, Spurs Arsenal or Villa but I reckon he'll want to be starting games, doesn't strike me as someone who wants that squad player role and he can't play wide which means he's only got 1 spot in these teams.

I think the best club for him is actually a club like West Ham where he can be the first choice in a side that's looking to challenge for Europa/Conference League Spots.
 
I don't think he's actually good enough to be a starter at one of the champions league clubs, he's going to be 28 in the summer so there's no re-sale value, his betting ban must be a concern for any club signing him.
Oh I get your points there I do. You are right he is 27/28 and so there isn’t much of a resale value. But I think a club like Arsenal would really benefit from signing him and to do that I think they’ll pay more than £50M. I mean they need a goalscorer and he is that.
 
Oh I get your points there I do. You are right he is 27/28 and so there isn’t much of a resale value. But I think a club like Arsenal would really benefit from signing him and to do that I think they’ll pay more than £50M. I mean they need a goalscorer and he is that.

Do they need a goal scorer? Goals have not been a problem for Arsenal over the last 2 seasons. In terms of goals scored they are only just behind City/Liverpool this season and they scored bucket loads last season. Arsenal's strength is they spread the goals around they aren't just relying on a centre forward to bang in 30 goals a season.

Arsenal to me need to be looking for players that can turn you from second place to first place I'm just not sure Toney is that player. It might be having a better backup to Jesus helps them get more points through the season as they do miss Jesus when he's out even if he isn't prolific.
 
What do we think the actual price will be?

I don't see it going much above £50m in the summer.

I don't think he's actually good enough to be a starter at one of the champions league clubs, he's going to be 28 in the summer so there's no re-sale value, his betting ban must be a concern for any club signing him.

He could be a decent squad player for clubs like Utd, Spurs Arsenal or Villa but I reckon he'll want to be starting games, doesn't strike me as someone who wants that squad player role and he can't play wide which means he's only got 1 spot in these teams.

I think the best club for him is actually a club like West Ham where he can be the first choice in a side that's looking to challenge for Europa/Conference League Spots.

£55m to Liverpool.
 
Reckon they're giving up on Nunez or just thinking about playing him wide?

Big thing for Liverpool this summer will be replacing Salah if he goes to Saudi not sure Toney does that.

Cole, Yorke, OGS and Sheringham say hi
 
I don't think he's actually good enough to be a starter at one of the champions league clubs, he's going to be 28 in the summer so there's no re-sale value, his betting ban must be a concern for any club signing him.

He starts at Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, United.

The only clubs in the league I think he probably doesn't start for are Villa and City. But it wouldn't surprise me if someone comes in for Watkins and Villa spend that money on Toney.
 
He starts at Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, United.

The only clubs in the league I think he probably doesn't start for are Villa and City. But it wouldn't surprise me if someone comes in for Watkins and Villa spend that money on Toney.

I think he'd certainly give the current strikers a good run for their money if he was at those clubs but I wouldn't say 100% put him in any of those sides and he makes them instantly better. Think he strengthens everyone's squads and with the extra games in Europe next season with the new group stage games teams are probably going to want better depth.

Not a bad shout but if you can get Toney cheaper than Watkins why not just buy Toney?

I think Toney is a very good player I'm just struggling to see where he fits in at these top sides currently.
 
Nunez and Toney say hi

So does Jota.

My point was more if Liverpool are going to let Salah leave I think they'll replace him with another wide player rather than bring in a specialist centre forward.

Hard to predict what they'll do in the summer with all the changes going on.
 
So does Jota.

My point was more if Liverpool are going to let Salah leave I think they'll replace him with another wide player rather than bring in a specialist centre forward.

Hard to predict what they'll do in the summer with all the changes going on.

You asked how much do we think he'll go for, possibly to where, I just gave my opinion, I don't care where he goes as long as it's not United(for the money needed to sign him mostly, but also his personality)but with my knowledge(or lack of) of football I can see him fitting in at Liverpool, how they would fit him into their team I couldn't give 2 s*its.
 
Another goal in a poor display for Brentford. Four goals in five games. This man knows how to score in this league. Everything we need.
 

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