How long do we give Solskjaer?

Mr C

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so you seriously think, with the squads he's had, he should have done better?

For me, I think he has done an excellant job considering the mood of the club when he took over, and the resources available.

Even this year, any trophy would be amazing with a midfield like we have. It s comfortably one of the worst in the league, and is a very important part of any winning team.

Next season, we keep our same top players, and invest in the middle, then he needs to deliver.

This season, I will use my own commom sense (or lack of) to decide how well we've done. Not some spurious points total dreamt up by someone. If we've played well and competed then great.

You put this midfield up against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester.....I could go on. We'll do well to beat those teams. But I have no doubt we will beat most of them. Because of the manager.

This is why I don't understand some of our fan base. They are unrealistic in their expectations. He may not have won anything, or be a big name, but he's rarely put a foot wrong while at united as manager and deserves a bit more respect. Not comaprisons to other managers who may do well, or may well fail. There have been plenty of "big" managers who have failed at united.
 

Macariman

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You're very loose with the word facts.

I mean it isn't 34% is it? Again exaggeratting.

Ole's win percentage is 55.77%

156 games. 87 wins.

Now even if you just want to use the Champions League (Which for some reason you do. Wait we know the reason) even then it isn't 34% and the thing is the record is poor so there is no need to exaggerate.
Yeah, the ECL, 11 played, 4 won = 34%
 

mitchmouse

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You are taking the p*ss putting Rodgers in that list but yeah we all know the problem with Ole is a lack of track record for success.

There's record that he really needs to get a grip on 11 CL games for Ole now 4 wins and 7 defeats.

Let's hope yesterday was just a bit of a blip but sadly it felt oh to familiar watching Utd really struggle in Europe against even hald decent opposition.

It is very worrying to see just how easy Utd are to knock off their game put us under any sort of pressure and we fold that doesn't happen to the top sides they are resiliant and handle the intensity and use their ability to get themselves out of trouble.
I think Brendan Rogers has earned himself a place in that list - not so much for what he did with the Dippers, but what he is doing at the King Power...
 

Mr C

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Rodgers deserves to be on there but Ole doesn't? he took over a league winning side and finished below Ole every season. That makes no sense.
 

jsp

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The point is Mr C expectations were low when he came in for obvious reasons he took over a mess but the bar has been raised every season and as it should until the expectation level is back where it belongs which is challenging for the top honours domestically and in europe season after sesaon. I think we are now at a point given the investment in the team and the quality we have that we should expect to compete not necessarily win but compete.

He's had the time to put his feet under the table and build his squad and you can't knock him to much for that apart from the midfield I think he's put the money in the right places maybe got ourselves a bit top heavy in the striking department.

The only major dissapointment for me was that Europa League final now you can pin that on players but it happened on his watch he didn't really have an answer to the problem which was teams that defended deep. He did nothing to really change it yes he had weak players on the bench but to me it look like he was afraid to take Rashford off despite it being blindingly obvious that the kid had nothing to give that night.

We accepted Ole was a bit of a novice when he got the job so we need to see him grow into the job and improve becoming a better manager himself but like any manager he will be judged by his results this season if things don't improve from last season questions will have to be asked.
 

jsp

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I think Brendan Rogers has earned himself a place in that list - not so much for what he did with the Dippers, but what he is doing at the King Power...

Dunno for me he's bottled 4th from a strong position two seasons in a row.

The cup win was fantastic and that will make him a legend at Leicester but they have blown champions league football two seasons in a row.

That list was full of managers who've won the big prizes domestically and in europe (apart from Nagelsmen).

I'm not going to knock Rodgers he did a great job at Swansea, Liverpool, Celtic and Leicester but he'd have to be considered an outsider who would be seen as a gamble.

However, if the question was who is the better manager Rodgers or Solskjear? Based on their records in management you'd have to say Rodgers which is a sad reality but I don't think he could have done what Ole has done for us in the last few seasons.
 

Mr C

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Jeezus, how anal can u get?
No need to reply, having seen a few of your previous work!
Well IDFD said there was a small difference, you can't do maths. He also said there was no need for you to exagerate because just looking at the CL you can see the results are poor. If you're going to write stuff as fact, just check it first. It just makes your point look stupid.
You also think Rodgers deserves to be on a list with Guadiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc becasue he won an FA, yet finished below Ole every season in the league. You also referred to United as Man U.

On those few facts I won't worry that you think I talk nonsense to be honest. Let alone the rest of the BS you write.
 

Macariman

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Well IDFD said there was a small difference, you can't do maths. He also said there was no need for you to exagerate because just looking at the CL you can see the results are poor. If you're going to write stuff as fact, just check it first. It just makes your point look stupid.
You also think Rodgers deserves to be on a list with Guadiola, Klopp, Ancelotti etc becasue he won an FA, yet finished below Ole every season in the league. You also referred to United as Man U.

On those few facts I won't worry that you think I talk nonsense to be honest. Let alone the rest of the BS you write.
Did u forget to take your meds this morning mukka?
 

Mr C

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So we know Rodgers is doing worse in the League than Ole, so lets get him because of his European record :D Laughable.

 

jsp

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Lets be fair here you can't really compare winning records for a Man Utd manager and a Leicester manager.

You can be fair and say that Rodgers has delivered success wherever he's gone and made the teams he's taken over better and played really exciting football delivering trophies at 2 of the 4 top flight clubs he has managed (think he'd left Swansea when they won the league cup).

He came to Leicester at a tough time the title winning side had been picked apart and he's built a new generation that is still a competitive side challenging the top 4 season after season playing good football.

There is a ceiling to what they can achieve though if the big clubs have all got their house in order it's almost impossible for them to break into that but I do think the last 2 seasons they blew great opportunities by collapsing at the final hurdle.

If things went really bad and at Xmas it was clear Ole had to go of the managers in the PL that you could potentially get Rodgers is probably the obvious replacement but like Ole the doubts would remain about him being a truely great manager until he won one of the big trophies with Utd.
 

Mr C

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Are you kidding me.

You think he took over a tougher side than Ole? you can't actually believe that.

If for some reason you don't want to compare his Leicester league record to Ole's to suit your Agenda. Compare his Liverpool record.

What you can't compare is the pressure a United manager is undr compared to a Leicester manager. You already said he bottled it in the league. Ole hasn't.
 

jsp

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Was that aimed at me @Mr C because that isn't what I said.

Rodgers has done a very good job at a number of clubs I'd say made them all better clubs than they were when he took over he raised standards at Celtic played the best football they'd seen in years dominating Scottish football but in Europe the budgets just don't give him enough fire power. Liverpool came within a whisker of winning the title before his side was picked apart by a mixture of sales and injuries. Swansea left a solid premier league side after promotion. Leicester took them from mid table to top 4 challengers and won a domestic cup. He is a very good manager who probably deserves another chance at one of the top premier league clubs but probably won't get one because of his tie to Liverpool.

Ole took over an absolute mess and Ole hasn't put a foot wrong in my opinion in fixing these problems that were ripping the club apart from the inside. The club is in a much better situation now than it was when he found it he's rebuilt the bond between fans and players and fans and the club which was no easy task and it certainly wasn't helped by our owners trying to bugger off to that super league idea.

Old Trafford is rocking again and I think Ole has been a part of that the club is welcoming the fans voice and listening to them to try and make the gameday experience better. Free tickets for school kids for mid week games that don't sell out, cheap beer (even if it is carling), rail seating trials, improved the disabled facilities, given the stadium some much needed TLC. Ole I think is partly behind that as he will have seen from the outside the damage that had been done post Ferguson to the fan base and the way they were being treated.

On the pitch he's had to deal with the pandemic and the crazy calendar from the last two seasons which will have seen very little time on the training pitch working with his players on maybe some of the bigger issues he needs to address and drill into them.

All I think anyone is saying is this season we really need to see the results on the pitch otherwise all that good work off it could be down the drain. I think every fan wants Ole to win titles at Utd and show how great he is but so far there isn't a compelling amount of evidence to support that but lets wait and see how things look in May and hopefully those of us with doubts will be eating humble pie.
 

Mr C

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you going to give him the midfield he needs then?

Leicester midfield is much better, I'd take their keeper too, and before Ronaldo arrived I'd be taking Vardy.

He's come 3rd and 2nd with an inferior squad. I think he's proved himself.

His midfield is not a trophy winning midfield.
 

IDFD

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If that Leicester team were wearing United shirts we'd all be saying they should finish top 4.

They're weak at left back and centre back for my liking but they've got a great side there. The midfield is probably better than ours simply because they've got Ndidi. Tielemans is an excellent player and I know most aren't sold on Madison but I love him. Barnes is criminally under rated and we all know the job Vardy can do.

They're probably the 5th best side in the league and Rodgers gets about par with them.

(I'd have United's squad third best in the league and think Ole over achieved with them last season and expect he will again this season)
 

jsp

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Ole has had 2.5 years to sort out the midfield and hasn't we don't know the reason why he hasn't maybe he's decided to focus money in other areas first which is fine but it's not like he hasn't had the time or the money to address the midfield. We don't know what the story is with VDB but that signing just looks like a dud and it's his only real centre mid purchase as Bruno isn't really a central midfield player. Ole has also had to deal with the Pogba saga which isn't easy to deal with and to be fair he's got pretty good form from him when fit.

It could be as simple as the one he really wants hasn't been available and he didn't want to just spend the money on any old player he'd rather wait like he did with Sancho. The only one I think who's moved recently that we might have missed a chance on was Hojberg going to Spurs I can't think of another midfielder who's come into a club in the last 2 seasons and made a big impact. Hojberg I think is a good all round centre mid and he was available pretty cheap from memory. Soucek is another at West Ham who slipped in un-noticed and has done really well but I'm not sure he's what we need.

As I said previously the question mark over Rodgers has to be how his teams have finished the last two seasons as they blew up in the run in both times and dropped out of the top 4. I think it's fair to say Leicester have a very strong starting XI but they don't have the depth that the top sides have so things probably does catch up to them in the end. Personally from their XI I'd have Schmeichel, Ndidi & Tielemens but I don't think any of their others get in our starting XI quite a few would be struggling to even make our bench.
 

Mr C

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how do you know what money was available? who shouldn't we have bought to fund this midfield, because we would be short in that area instead. You can't do everything in a few windows.

What we do know is someone wasted money on DVDB which is well know as a player Ole didn't want.
 

IDFD

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I don't actually buy the Ole didn't want Donny stuff. It's well known Ole has a veto on all transfers if he didn't want him he should have stopped it happening.

I think Ole hasn't sorted the midfield because we've had plenty of other issues. When he joined we said we needed a CB, LB, 2 CM's, RW and ST. The obvious next step is to finally get a DM in. I wouldn't rule us out of winning the league with Fred I just think if you look at the other teams that finished top 6 they've got Fernandinho, Rodri, Fabinho, Kante, Ndidi and Hojberg. They all walk in to our team and it's difficult to dominate a game in the way people want us to without a top class player in that position.
 

Mr C

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It was written in the papers at the time he didn't want him, and he's not played him. You'd think if he wanted him he would have played him?
 

IDFD

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I think Ole expected Pogba to leave last summer and Donny would be the Pogba replacement and having seen him on the pitch he doesn't trust him further back. I don't see why not he can't be much worse than other options we play there.
 

O-Dog

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I think Ole expected Pogba to leave last summer and Donny would be the Pogba replacement and having seen him on the pitch he doesn't trust him further back. I don't see why not he can't be much worse than other options we play there.
That's my take on it. So play Pogba on the left, Sancho on the right and you can fit Donnie in next to McT.
 

jsp

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Until Ole actually comes out on the record and says he didn't want VDB then he's his signing because no one has actually reported with any consistent truth behind it that this wasn't the case. There were some rumours and speculation but nothing I read made me think that it was a fact just people speculating this was the reason behind VDB not playing.

VDB wasn't playing because he wasn't playing well enough in the games he did play to justify picking him again.

I know there was some speculation that he wasn't necessarily Ole's first choice when it came to buying a new midfielder but if he didn't want him he wouldn't be at the club. Ole has shown he won't just buy a player for the sake of buying one.

They seem to have wiped the slate clean this summer and starting from fresh if VDB gets chances hopefully he can nail down a role and show he can fit in this team I just don't see it myself.

Pogba in my opinion needs to go he doesn't fit in central midfield and we've got other players to play on the left who can provide goals and assists who don't earn £350k a week and don't create the drama that comes with him. Matic should already be gone not sure we should put that new contract on Ole's head but he should never have got another deal. VDB I'd cash out on him if we can as soon as possible.

In central midfield as soon as possible Utd need to be buying 2 or 3 quality central midfield players to go with Fred and McTominay. Maybe Hanibal or Garner can step it up from the academy but to me that midfield needs a massive overhaul as soon as possible.

That's why I think it's fair to say we expect Utd to be competitive this season rather than say we expect Utd to actually win the league because there is a real weakness in the side that probably holds us back over a 38 game season.
 

Macariman

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It was written in the papers at the time he didn't want him, and he's not played him. You'd think if he wanted him he would have played him?
What papers were they? The Sin, 1 of them?
Very interesting to read SAF's opinion of Conte yesterday. Why should he be discussing this proven world class manager at this point in time?
 

Macariman

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100% behind him. Personally I feel the crowd are the biggest problem. They aren't behind the club they just look for a reason to get on their backs. Ole deserve better and United have always been better. They're a stain on the club.

The same people moaning about Ole were happy singing Viva Ronaldo. It's embarrassing how shit our fan base have become.
Yeah, Ronaldo was 1 shit signing wasn't he
 

Macariman

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Are you kidding me.

You think he took over a tougher side than Ole? you can't actually believe that.

If for some reason you don't want to compare his Leicester league record to Ole's to suit your Agenda. Compare his Liverpool record.

What you can't compare is the pressure a United manager is undr compared to a Leicester manager. You already said he bottled it in the league. Ole hasn't.
What about resources available? ie. cash
 

RichH2016

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For me, I think he has done an excellant job considering the mood of the club when he took over, and the resources available.

Even this year, any trophy would be amazing with a midfield like we have. It s comfortably one of the worst in the league, and is
Yes. Yes he should have. He should have won something at this point. He's put the team in positions to win things so why is it unreasonable to have expected him to win a trophy?

See this midfield thing... Its a valid reason but you don't hear the same excuses for Pep or for Klopp or for Tuchel. And if so why do we absolve Ole blame for not addressing the position?
 

jsp

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Tuchel he really has no excuses he's got a brilliant squad of players and will be expected to win things I honestly can't see a weakness in that squad at the moment.

Klopp people are going to give him an excuse if he doesn't win the league the depth of his squad is a problem as the club haven't been able to invest he's got to rely on bringing through some youngsters and he's already lost his most talented one for the season. Klopp was given an excuse last season because he lost his whole defence for most of the season now that defence is back they'll expect Liverpool to be fighting for the title again.

Guardiola probably doesn't have an excuse they are the champions after all but people will say he's missing a striker and he is they tried to sign 2 this summer in Kane and Ronaldo and ended up with neither but they didn't really have one last season and people will expect him to be able to come up with a plan for playing without one.

No one is demanding Ole goes and gets 100 points this season and blitzes the league and champions league I think we just all want to see improvement on last season go further in europe and get more points in the league a domestic cup would be a nice little bonus if it happens.

We all know the midfield is the problem it's why I don't think I've seen one journalist or pundit tip Utd for the title even after signing Ronaldo and it's why few fans will believe we can win it.
 

RichH2016

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So Pep doesn't get an excuse despite them not having a recognised striker? And Klopp doesn't get an excuse despite not being backed in the market during the summer? And Tuchel doesn't get a pass despite a suspect defense? But Ole... Yeah Ole gets a pass because well as far as I can see he's Ole.

If Pep, Klopp or Tuchel were in charge of United they'd be expected to compete for the league and win something with that squad.

United have more fire power than any of those other teams. United have spent over £120M on 2 CBs and around £80M on their 2 full backs. They signed arguably England's best CB and one of the best in the world. They added a proven historical goalscorer and one of the best young wingers in world football. And yet still the excuses and still Ole gets a pass. It really is quite unbelievable.
 

jsp

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He's not had a pass though because this season hasn't finished yet if we go out in the group stage and get 70 odd points this season he won't be getting a pass from me and most other fans as that would be seen as failure.

He's had the time to build now it's time to deliver that's all people are saying and if he doesn't deliver he will probably be gone because that is the nature of football.

People can question his judgement over tactics, selections, signings, substitutions but he will be judged by the results this season.

Do you really think Tuchel, Klopp or Pep keep their jobs if this season they were to finish 5th and go out of Europe in the group stage? If any of them did that they'd need a damn good excuse for it because that would be seen as failure just like it will be seen as failure for Ole IF it happens.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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This is why I don't understand some of our fan base. They are unrealistic in their expectations. He may not have won anything, or be a big name, but he's rarely put a foot wrong while at united as manager and deserves a bit more respect. Not comaprisons to other managers who may do well, or may well fail. There have been plenty of "big" managers who have failed at united.
Unfortunately, I think there is a, larger than we'd like to admit, portion of our support (especially online) that were/are glory hunters who started supporting United for the trophies. They never really embraced the club or what made United unique, they just lived vicariously through the success and got to act like big-time Charlies online whenever we did well.

Recently, these people seem to look longingly at Chelsea who spend truckloads and rotate managers every 2 seasons and annoyingly manage to win big trophies and want United to do the same. When we don't, they become more and more adamant that it's the managers fault and if only the club/manager would wave their magic wand they could make all of our problems go away.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I think there's a lot of parallels between Ole and Southgate. There isn't another manager in world football who could've came in and done what they did throughout their tenure, and especially last year. They both inherited a disaster of a situation and have rebuilt their respective teams in a way nobody else could've. Both made major finals, both lost on pens and both received the majority of the criticism for their defeats. Both get the PE teacher tag because people can't figure out what makes them successful, and therefore they just got lucky or the players succeeded despite them.

Both weren't sexy names, and still aren't. Arsenal fans would be apoplectic if either were hired to succeed Arteta, and yet they are perfect for their positions because they have built their squads back up and are challenging for major trophies for the first time in a while.
 

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