How long do we give Solskjaer?

Macariman said:
Regarding shots on goal, we also managed 2 last night
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But Chelsea were at home with 11 men. Playing on grass, yet their two shots is acceptable?

@Berba, if you look at league form, we have improved year on year, the squad is much better, and so is the attudes and general feeling around the club.

I think CL football he can have a bit of pass. But I don't really get the doom, I still expect us to qualify. And if we had a decent CM player last night we don't lose that game.
 
Berba_God said:
Just because we have a succession of poor performing managers does not negate the weaknesses of Ole’s tenure.
Like most in our hearts want him to succeed without doubt. In my brain not the man that will bring is success in terms of trophies.
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What do u want exactly?
 
Berba_God said:
Just because we have a succession of poor performing managers does not negate the weaknesses of Ole’s tenure.
Like most in our hearts want him to succeed without doubt. In my brain not the man that will bring is success in terms of trophies.
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Precisely comrade!
 
Macariman said:
Look up percentage, there you'll find the facts.
We're currently sitting, with our present manager at a 34% success rate. Mesmerizing!
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You're very loose with the word facts.

I mean it isn't 34% is it? Again exaggeratting.

Ole's win percentage is 55.77%

156 games. 87 wins.

Now even if you just want to use the Champions League (Which for some reason you do. Wait we know the reason) even then it isn't 34% and the thing is the record is poor so there is no need to exaggerate.
 
Another way to look at is, if MUFC sign a new player, how long will u give him to show his worth, succeed? Ergo, a manager?
 
Mr C said:
But Chelsea were at home with 11 men. Playing on grass, yet their two shots is acceptable?

@Berba, if you look at league form, we have improved year on year, the squad is much better, and so is the attudes and general feeling around the club.

I think CL football he can have a bit of pass. But I don't really get the doom, I still expect us to qualify. And if we had a decent CM player last night we don't lose that game.
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I don't believe anyone can say with a straight face the club hasn't progressed under Ole.
 
Macariman said:
" he deserves a crack" how long should that crack last? 3 yrs? 4? or maybe 5, coz we all love Ole for what he did on the pitch for us?
We're talking about the Manager of MUFC position. There's no room for sentiment!
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I think he deserves this season to put a realistic title challenge together.

He's had 2.5 seasons to rebuild the squad and club in his image and season after season he's improved results so he needs to keep doing that if he doesn't and say Utd get less points in the league this season, don't challenge for domestic cups and flop out of CL in the group stages again then I think there's a good chance he gets sacked.

I personally think we're still a couple of quality centre mids away from challenging for a title until we sort that I think we can get close but I can't see us getting over the line.

As I said before he took over a sinking ship he's done great work putting right a lot of the wrongs post Ferguson and slowly got us getting better and better but I think there will be a ceiling where he can't quite put us back on top and someone else will be required to make that final step.
 
www.theguardian.com

Manchester United’s latest failure looks less a blip than part of a pattern | Jonathan Liew

Manchester United have lost seven Champions League games under Solskjær and it is still not entirely clear what his formula is
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Think this is a pretty fair summary of last night and the current issues we face as a team.

Feels like all the pieces are there to build a very good side just haven't quite worked out where we need to put them and find a consistent way of playing that is good enough to go up against pretty much anyone and dominate without having to resort to a plan B.
 
I think the club should (and probably does) have some minimum targets that the team need to meet each season. Unless we go on a big losing streak I don't think replacing a manager mid-season is the way to go. We might crash out of the CL again this year to opposition we "should" be beating. However, I think progressing in the CL is a minimum requirement. We shouldn't be losing to clubs that require a google search to learn who the feck they are.

The team is better. The club is healthier. The culture is more or less back. I like Ole and his approach to players, conferences, all that. He seems like a good man-manager and he knows the club inside and out. That period where watching United was depressing and everything felt coated with Jose's poison is thankfully gone. We are treated to occasionally breathtaking football.

I do continue to question the tactical naivety and even negativity we keep seeing, like against YB, like last season's CL campaign, etc. We knew any manager was going to be hamstrung by the support of the Glazers, or the lack thereof, in securing their targets. I believe Ole has been given enough in new signings to be able to put together a reasonable tilt at the league. I would expect at least quarter finals in all cup competitions, and at least 3rd place finish in the league with what we have. Our midfield is still a glaring hole and I honestly do not believe Fred will ever be lifting the Prem or CL trophy.

The final issue is, who succeeds Ole when his number is up? If he fails to hit those benchmarks (quarter finals in cups, 3rd or better league) I'd say that's a pretty clear indication he's taken us as far as he can. I don't know of any manager who would be able to take the club back to being serial champions while keeping the culture / spirit of the club alive. Our club was sick for a long time, starting with Moyes bringing the wrong mentality. I think the sickness has been cured under Ole. I do question his backroom staff and the tactics they work on because we keep seeming to be one-dimensional and naive. At the end of the season, let's see where we end up.
 
IDFD said:
Ole took over a club 7th in the league 12 points off top 4.

How anyone thinks he's doing a poor job is beyond me.

He's cleared out all the dead wood and given us a squad we believe can compete again.

Some people would prefer the mediocrity of Moyes and LVG it seems.
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I honestly think most of the Ole Out brigade have forgotten this.

IDFD said:
Comparing his record to that of Moyes in Europe is ridiculous really.

Ole has played

PSG X 4
Barcelona X 2
Leipzig X 2
Istanbul X 2
Young Boys

Moyes played

Leverkusen X2
Shakter X2
Sociedad X 2
Olimpiacos X 2
Bayern X 2

You'd expect Moyes to have a better win percentage. From those games it's a nonsense argument.
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Moyes inherited the 11 points champions of England. Ole inherited a side miles out of even qualifying for Europe.

SuperRash said:
Sometimes I think some ‘fans’ actually like us to lose so they can beat Ole with a stick.
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Which is mind boggling. If you had to script a post-Fergie renaissance, surely it would be one of our own returning to lead us to glory despite being doubted and ridiculed by the ABU press.
 
In answer to the question as long as it takes to fully evaluate him he is learning on the job to an extent but not a bad thing with Fergie clearly the mentor. All the sack the Manager and get in a quick fix Van Gall / Jose etc is complete bullshit and will never work at United. Building a football team for the long term takes time look at Fergie. And lets look at the progress we are making

100% behind Ole
 
100% behind him. Personally I feel the crowd are the biggest problem. They aren't behind the club they just look for a reason to get on their backs. Ole deserve better and United have always been better. They're a stain on the club.

The same people moaning about Ole were happy singing Viva Ronaldo. It's embarrassing how shit our fan base have become.
 
You have to acknowledge that the Ole out crowd don't care about the football. All they want is a piss up and a laugh and he isn't giving them enough of that. No actual supporter of the club thinks Ole should be sacked. It's just either the drunken idiots or those that don't have an IQ over 13. So the celebration of a cup means more to them than any development of the club
 
And yes it actually angers me some United fans are this stupid. I expect more from our fans.
 
The crowd in the ground have been right behind Ole from day one very rarely has his side been booed off and the atmosphere at the ground is as good as it has been in a very long time. If they have been booed they have deserved it.

A lot of the #OleOut nonsense exists online on social media from people who don't go to go games and a lot seems to come from some of these absolute weapons and parasites that run online fan channels. They have found a way to monetise their opinion on football and become some sort of "self elected" voice of fans despite the fact very few of them actually go to the games and they make money by being controversial and whipping up an online frenzy. If they did what they did in a pub on matchday they'd be lucky to walk out without getting a slap.

There's also another section of #OleOut online and it's wrapped up in this weird LUHG group who are essentially Mourinho fans who don't believe that Mourinho should have ever been sacked. This lot are probably the weirdest group of the lot.

I don't think anyone on here wants Utd to lose so they can come and hammer the manager but there's plenty who aren't just willing to blindly follow the guy because he was a former player. Ole's job when he was appointed was to make the club better or healthier there are many many measures of that and success is only one of them. I'd say so far he's ticked all of the other ones the last one is the success and if he doesn't get that he probably goes as no one at Utd has the job for life.

Part of building success is a constant raising of standards so the standard has been raised for Ole this season again he needs to meet that he was allowed to operate for a few seasons where expectations were lowered because the club was a mess but now it's time to raise the bar again.
 
you also have to allow for some not being united but are WUMS.

One on here, callled United Man U, which immediately flagged him/her as a WUM.
 
There's loads of them as well and online we'll get hammered now with the Ronaldo fan boys who follow him around so every time we lose it'll be them lot jumping on Ole as well.

Comes with the territory bad results will bring bad reactions I'm not going to lie the one of Tuesday really annoyed me normally I can shake off a defeat pretty quickly but I was in a real grump for at least a day after that. Probably because we'd waited so long for these sort of games to be back in full stadiums to then see that happen was a killer but we go again Sunday a tough game on the road lets hope they can bounce back.
 
that match would have annoyed me more if it wasn't on a fake pitch, we didn't go to 10, and we didn't lose on one bad mistake.

I also think Ole will have learnt a lot from that. Don't know how many times we've gone down to 10 while he's been here.

We need a result against a good west ham this weekend though
 
There's 4 I can remember all games we ended up losing but there's probably a couple more.

Pogba - PSG at home
Martial - Spurs at home
Fred - PSG at home
AWB - Young Boys away.

It's quite clear to me that Utd don't have a way of playing when down to 10 men. In all those games as soon as we went down to 10 men we really struggled to keep the ball. Let's be honest we are not particularly good at keeping the ball with 11 men. Against Young Boys our possession went from 66% before the red card to something like 30% after it.

With 10 men you either need to be capable of digging in and holding the fort with a centre forward you can be direct to and a couple of lads who can break and support him or you need to be seriously good at keeping possession so your 10 can still compete on the ball against 11.

That old cliche that sometimes it's harder to play vs 10 than 11 really doesn't apply to this Utd side. Haha!

The main conclusion from Tuesday is don't do stupid things and get sent off.
 
So what is the minimum requirement then? People talk about winning something but let's say Ole gets 90 points but we finish second. Would people still think that's sackable?

My line in the sand is 85 points. If he fails to reach that this season I'll agree with those that he can be given his marching orders. If he hits that then it's another season of clear progression and he shouldn't be going anywhere.
 
I think there just have to be clear signs of progression. A trophy is a must this season, we have been so close with semi finals and last season in the EL final. We need to get that over the line and get the monkeys off Ole’s back.

I agree with you @IDFD, we have to be hitting 85 points plus. That could get you very close to winning the league as well. There will not be a runaway winner this year in my opinion. It’ll be very close between us, City, Liverpool and Chelsea. Plus the teams below are improving so dropping points will be more frequent.

The improvements at the club since Ole has come in is off the charts, just got to translate that into achievements/trophies now.
 
Think targets have to be measured against last season and also realistic.

Champions League
Last season: Group Stage.
Target this season: Second Round.

Premier League
Last season: 74 points
Target this season: 82 points (this also needs to be a top 4 finish)

Domestic Cups
I don't really think we should be setting them as targets as they are always the lowest priority for the manager to plan around.

If Ole wins a domestic cup but doesn't hit those two targets above I think it's hard to really call it progress it would still feel like a bit of a backwards steps as the cup doesn't mean what it used to mean which is a shame but this is the world now.

The league target is always tricky as points totals can be misleading but really Utd need to be in the title race with 10 games to go we kind of set the pace up until Xmas last season then faded away we need to show that we can keep the pace for longer this season and hopefully stick it out to the end.
 
My target isn't really point driven, if we are competing I am happy. If we look way behind top 1 or 2 then I will start to worry.
 
IDFD said:
Are we really going to have another season of bumping this thread everytime United lose a game? Getting a bit boring how quickly everyone wants to jump on his back.
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Thing is bud... I don't think people's views change that quickly. People don't necessarily talk about Ole out after a good win because how can they? They'd get shut down in an instant and it just wouldn't be right.

I've been very consistent on this. Ole isn't going to win the league or a major title with united in my opinion. That doesn't mean he hasn't moved the club in the right direction. It doesn't mean he's the worst manager. He's done a good job. He's brought in good players and he's gotten rid of some bad players. He's pointed the club in the right direction. But he isn't going to win major silverware. He's top tactically inept and he makes poor decisions.

Could he prove me wrong? Of course he can. I don't think he will but he can. His record in the CL is pretty shocking and people think this group is easy?
 
3rd or better in the league, 2nd round CL, a good run in the other cups, and most importantly the players and fans not in existential despair. As long as we're not clearly moving backwards.
 
RichH2016 said:
Thing is bud... I don't think people's views change that quickly. People don't necessarily talk about Ole out after a good win because how can they? They'd get shut down in an instant and it just wouldn't be right.

I've been very consistent on this. Ole isn't going to win the league or a major title with united in my opinion. That doesn't mean he hasn't moved the club in the right direction. It doesn't mean he's the worst manager. He's done a good job. He's brought in good players and he's gotten rid of some bad players. He's pointed the club in the right direction. But he isn't going to win major silverware. He's top tactically inept and he makes poor decisions.

Could he prove me wrong? Of course he can. I don't think he will but he can. His record in the CL is pretty shocking and people think this group is easy?
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Is he tactically inept though? He's got a winning record against every top manager.
 
I just don't get it, he wins loads of games, nothing, loses one on a fake pitch with 10 men and all the haters come out.
 
I think the simple fact is there will always be doubters and when we lose the comments about is he good enough will surface.

I like Ole and what he has done for the club but I fully agree that he needs to move past progression to putting trophies in the cabinet. I would love him to succeed but this season is the big one - if he fails then we may have to look elsewhere.
 

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