How long do we give Solskjaer?

RichH2016

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You put a prime Roy Keane in this side and it's an amazing squad.

Also '99 wasn't our best side '08 was better.
I actually agree. In fact, put a world class DM or deep lying CM in that midfield and there's no doubt this team should then be ready to contend. I mean there's an argument that it should right now but I think it'll fall short due to the midfield.
 

mitchmouse

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So I've googled this story thought I'd do my own little fact check before I slam the manager and it's a story that started in the sun that contains no quotes from Ole or any of the players or staff so as far as I'm concerned you can stick these reports straight in the bin.

So you are accusing him of being delusional based on something that we don't even know if he actually said or believes.
so then you never believe anything ever written? or do you just pick and choose the things you like the sound of? Oh, and by the way, if you read what I wrote, you'll see I did say "if it is true" - but maybe you didn't bother to do that
 

jsp

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so then you never believe anything ever written? or do you just pick and choose the things you like the sound of? Oh, and by the way, if you read what I wrote, you'll see I did say "if it is true" - but maybe you didn't bother to do that

If it comes from that rag without any actual quotes then no I don't believe it as we have no idea what the source of that information was so I'll judge Ole's character by what he actually says not what someone says he said.

I did read that but you basically used the evidence to back up an opinion you already have that Ole is delusional you used some dodgy information to almost present your opinion as now being a fact.
 

jsp

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I hope you never get asked to do jury service since you don't seem to know what someone says is fact or an opinion

Your job on a jury is to listen to the evidence that is presented to you in court before offering your opinion it is not to ignore everything you've been told and base your opinion on something else. The idea of a Jury is they are supposed to be people who have no prior knowledge of the case or the people involved to avoid any bias or preformed opinion. So yeah you wouldn't want me on the Jury if you're in the dock ;)

So yeah in a court situation if you offered up that article as evidence any lawyer would have it thrown out as it doesn't actually prove anything it is hearsay it is a rumour that cannot be substantiated unless you are able to reveal the source and witnesses that back up that source.

Your opinion on Ole is yours and you're entitled to it all I'm saying is if your going to try and offer it as fact by chucking in a random article from the sun as evidence which doesn't include any quotes then it's not really going to convince me that I agree with you on it.
 

mitchmouse

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Your job on a jury is to listen to the evidence that is presented to you in court before offering your opinion it is not to ignore everything you've been told and base your opinion on something else. The idea of a Jury is they are supposed to be people who have no prior knowledge of the case or the people involved to avoid any bias or preformed opinion. So yeah you wouldn't want me on the Jury if you're in the dock ;)

So yeah in a court situation if you offered up that article as evidence any lawyer would have it thrown out as it doesn't actually prove anything it is hearsay it is a rumour that cannot be substantiated unless you are able to reveal the source and witnesses that back up that source.

Your opinion on Ole is yours and you're entitled to it all I'm saying is if your going to try and offer it as fact by chucking in a random article from the sun as evidence which doesn't include any quotes then it's not really going to convince me that I agree with you on it.
you need to look back over the conversation and see what is opinion and what is fact. Very early on, I said "if this is true (and it's only in The Sun". IF. and it was true then Ole did indeed say it...
 

IDFD

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Yeah but you were using it to say it proved a nonsense point to be fair. This article in no way 'proves' your point that Ole is deluded. There are no quotes, no inside information just a rubbish accusation made up by the reporter that you've jumped on and ran with.

To prove a point means you think it is a fact if it's been proven. When quite clearly it's just your opinion that Ole is deluded. (An incorrect opinion too).
 

Macariman

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i am not convinced that Ole has what it takes to take us to the next level, but he does deserve another season. I believe he has progressed us, maybe slower than we want, but still progression. He had a massive job at the beginning just stabilising the club after the Jose years. He then had players left from 3 different managers with 3 different styles of play. He has now got them into a position where, providing he get the players this window, he has the players he wants. A very big year for him though.

QPR game was nothing to be worried about. There was probably one player that would making the starting 11 and probably only 4 or 5 that would make the 2nd 11. I would have liked to see a better impact from some of the kids but it goes some way to deciding their futures, ie stay, go or loan. Plus some of those players are very young and have a couple of years development before we write them off.
I differ to a certain extent. I'm totally convinced that Ole won't take us to another level. His basic strategies and gameplans have been found to be sadly lacking on so many occasions. At present, we r depending entirely on 7 maybe 8 players.
These guys can win games for us but certainly not 55 per season.
 

jsp

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You are taking the p*ss putting Rodgers in that list but yeah we all know the problem with Ole is a lack of track record for success.

There's record that he really needs to get a grip on 11 CL games for Ole now 4 wins and 7 defeats.

Let's hope yesterday was just a bit of a blip but sadly it felt oh to familiar watching Utd really struggle in Europe against even hald decent opposition.

It is very worrying to see just how easy Utd are to knock off their game put us under any sort of pressure and we fold that doesn't happen to the top sides they are resiliant and handle the intensity and use their ability to get themselves out of trouble.
 

IDFD

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Are we really going to have another season of bumping this thread everytime United lose a game? Getting a bit boring how quickly everyone wants to jump on his back.
 

jsp

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Are we really going to have another season of bumping this thread everytime United lose a game? Getting a bit boring how quickly everyone wants to jump on his back.

Look the guy has to face the critics I don't think anyone is calling for his head right now but until the guy actually delivers I think this will keep happening. He isn't Fergie he doesn't have his track record to avoid facing any criticism as the Utd manager so many including me will continue to have doubts about his ability as a very top manager.

Yesterday was tough to watch a decent European side out played us for 60 minutes and our manager wasn't really able to do anything about it and really Utd didn't look ready for the challenge. Imagine what would happen if we went down to 10 men vs a good side in Europe. Fundamentally Utd don't have a set way of playing that dominates the opponent home and away dictating how the game will be played the other top sides do have that we don't.

No it isn't always Ole it is also players making mistakes but player mistakes will cost managers their jobs that is the way football has always been.

Utd have got a huge target on their back every ground we go to will be rocking and the opponent will do everything they can to get a win against the "mighty" Man Utd and having Ronaldo back only raises that interest so when results like this happen it will get this sort of reaction.
 

IDFD

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Yes the guy has his critics but to call for his head every time we lose a game is ridiculous.

We are 4 games in to the season and again the Ole out crowd crawls out of the woodwork. It's tiresome. Are every other club fan base this bad?

He's got a new contract he's not going anywhere for the foreseeable unless it goes drastically wrong.
 

Macariman

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You are taking the p*ss putting Rodgers in that list but yeah we all know the problem with Ole is a lack of track record for success.

There's record that he really needs to get a grip on 11 CL games for Ole now 4 wins and 7 defeats.

Let's hope yesterday was just a bit of a blip but sadly it felt oh to familiar watching Utd really struggle in Europe against even hald decent opposition.

It is very worrying to see just how easy Utd are to knock off their game put us under any sort of pressure and we fold that doesn't happen to the top sides they are resiliant and handle the intensity and use their ability to get themselves out of trouble.
Rodgers? Not a bad a leader in the dugout and many other capacities also. Anyway, take your opinion, let's leave him out of it.
Try reading Paul Scholes opinion of OGS.
Far more valued than mine!
 

jsp

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Yes the guy has his critics but to call for his head every time we lose a game is ridiculous.

We are 4 games in to the season and again the Ole out crowd crawls out of the woodwork. It's tiresome. Are every other club fan base this bad?

He's got a new contract he's not going anywhere for the foreseeable unless it goes drastically wrong.

I'd say most clubs are always pretty divided on their manager and with Utd there's always going to be extra noise because there are so many fans and we will always be the first up on the talk shows or podcasts.

Maybe this thread needs a new title or a fresh start because coming on here to discuss the manager isn't about calling for his head it's about trying to have a conversation about how he's doing. The title of this thread makes it seem like every time people post in here it's to hammer the manager and it isn't always that.

As you say we've made a great start in the league and nothing is going to change unless something goes really wrong which is a good thing.
 

jsp

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Rodgers? Not a bad a leader in the dugout and many other capacities also. Anyway, take your opinion, let's leave him out of it.
Try reading Paul Scholes opinion of OGS.
Far more valued than mine!

I've just seen the comments from Scholes and I'm not going to argue with anything he said about the performance or Ole. Like him I'm sick of hearing excuses and seeing the same old mistakes cost Utd in Europe. Discipline in Europe has been an issue that has hurt us 11 games in CL 3 red cards Pogba, Fred and AWB you are asking for trouble playing in Europe with 10 men.

The pressure is on Ole this season it has to be. Utd have to challenge for the top trophies given the money that is being spent on players and wages at the club. Challenging for trophies is what fans should demand and he's right to highlight that right now City/Liverpool/Chelsea have got managers with better track records. So Ole needs to change that by landing a trophy and if he doesn't he probably will be on his way sooner or later.

However, I do think you have to respect what Ole has done in terms of the rebuild of the club over the last few years it was in a terrible position when he found it. Maybe Rodgers isn't a bad example he put in place some building blocks at Liverpool that Klopp then added to and maybe that is what will happen at Utd the next guy will reap the rewards of what Ole has done so far.

He deserves a crack to show he can do it now he's built his squad and there will be bumps along the road but really the end of this season is where a judgement has to be made. Let's hope he does deliver as I certainly don't trust our board to appoint the right man to replace him.
 

Mr C

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The prem is the bread and butter.

I can't remember how man years it took Fergie to get it right in Europe. And to use different tactics in the league.

CL is a bonus, I want the league.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Yes the guy has his critics but to call for his head every time we lose a game is ridiculous.

We are 4 games in to the season and again the Ole out crowd crawls out of the woodwork. It's tiresome. Are every other club fan base this bad?

He's got a new contract he's not going anywhere for the foreseeable unless it goes drastically wrong.

The prem is the bread and butter.

I can't remember how man years it took Fergie to get it right in Europe. And to use different tactics in the league.

CL is a bonus, I want the league.
Bang on, both of these.

Yesterday was a gong show made worse by Ole's management, there's no getting around that. But, to throw the baby out with the bath water and fire up the Ole Out train again is absurd. I honestly think United fans have forgotten that Moyes/LvG and Jose ever happened and are applying the same expectations on this iteration of United in Europe as they had when Fergie was last in Europe. For years, we got knocked out by sides a United side in their pomp should be cruising by, hell, people would want Ole out if he went out to Leverkusen or Porto with this current side.

4 wins out of 11 is poor. But, this is a team that had all its institutional knowledge stripped by Moyes/LvG and is relearning how to cope with CL football. Plus, Ole's had squads that barely deserved to qualify for the competition in the first place.

We aren't Fergie's United anymore, despite resembling it for the first time since he retired, and people need to adjust expectations accordingly. Last night was a disaster, but let's keep some perspective.
 

Macariman

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I've just seen the comments from Scholes and I'm not going to argue with anything he said about the performance or Ole. Like him I'm sick of hearing excuses and seeing the same old mistakes cost Utd in Europe. Discipline in Europe has been an issue that has hurt us 11 games in CL 3 red cards Pogba, Fred and AWB you are asking for trouble playing in Europe with 10 men.

The pressure is on Ole this season it has to be. Utd have to challenge for the top trophies given the money that is being spent on players and wages at the club. Challenging for trophies is what fans should demand and he's right to highlight that right now City/Liverpool/Chelsea have got managers with better track records. So Ole needs to change that by landing a trophy and if he doesn't he probably will be on his way sooner or later.

However, I do think you have to respect what Ole has done in terms of the rebuild of the club over the last few years it was in a terrible position when he found it. Maybe Rodgers isn't a bad example he put in place some building blocks at Liverpool that Klopp then added to and maybe that is what will happen at Utd the next guy will reap the rewards of what Ole has done so far.

He deserves a crack to show he can do it now he's built his squad and there will be bumps along the road but really the end of this season is where a judgement has to be made. Let's hope he does deliver as I certainly don't trust our board to appoint the right man to replace him.
" he deserves a crack" how long should that crack last? 3 yrs? 4? or maybe 5, coz we all love Ole for what he did on the pitch for us?
We're talking about the Manager of MUFC position. There's no room for sentiment!
 

Macariman

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I've just seen the comments from Scholes and I'm not going to argue with anything he said about the performance or Ole. Like him I'm sick of hearing excuses and seeing the same old mistakes cost Utd in Europe. Discipline in Europe has been an issue that has hurt us 11 games in CL 3 red cards Pogba, Fred and AWB you are asking for trouble playing in Europe with 10 men.

The pressure is on Ole this season it has to be. Utd have to challenge for the top trophies given the money that is being spent on players and wages at the club. Challenging for trophies is what fans should demand and he's right to highlight that right now City/Liverpool/Chelsea have got managers with better track records. So Ole needs to change that by landing a trophy and if he doesn't he probably will be on his way sooner or later.

However, I do think you have to respect what Ole has done in terms of the rebuild of the club over the last few years it was in a terrible position when he found it. Maybe Rodgers isn't a bad example he put in place some building blocks at Liverpool that Klopp then added to and maybe that is what will happen at Utd the next guy will reap the rewards of what Ole has done so far.

He deserves a crack to show he can do it now he's built his squad and there will be bumps along the road but really the end of this season is where a judgement has to be made. Let's hope he does deliver as I certainly don't trust our board to appoint the right man to replace him.
Scholesy wasnt just talking about 1 game!
 

IDFD

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" he deserves a crack" how long should that crack last? 3 yrs? 4? or maybe 5, coz we all love Ole for what he did on the pitch for us?
We're talking about the Manager of MUFC position. There's no room for sentiment!

Could you list our managers on how you'd rate their performance post Ferguson?
 

IDFD

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You were quite happy with Chelsea performance and 2 shots on target though at home?

I guess you don't want to answer my question regarding how you rate the managers post Fergie.
 

Macariman

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I'll quote u, if your not quite sure. Success rate, Ole, just over a third. LvG, 50%. David Moyes, 54%
The chosen one, 57%
Have a look at the goal differences, speak volumes!
 

IDFD

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Ole has a better win percentage than all of them as United manager.

But again could you list how you rate our managers post Fergie?
 

Macariman

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You were quite happy with Chelsea performance and 2 shots on target though at home?

I guess you don't want to answer my question regarding how you rate the managers post Fergie.
Regarding shots on goal, we also managed 2 last night
 

IDFD

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Ole took over a club 7th in the league 12 points off top 4.

How anyone thinks he's doing a poor job is beyond me.

He's cleared out all the dead wood and given us a squad we believe can compete again.

Some people would prefer the mediocrity of Moyes and LVG it seems.
 

Macariman

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Ole has a better win percentage than all of them as United manager.

But again could you list how you rate our managers post Fergie?
Our managers post Fergie? Not good enough. Yet other prime teams in Europe have came across a few. Cast your mind back 32 years When the scousers were untouchable in Euro football, that saga ended with their fans singing the praises for Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish for 3 decades.
Will u be happy enough with that?
 

IDFD

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Comparing his record to that of Moyes in Europe is ridiculous really.

Ole has played

PSG X 4
Barcelona X 2
Leipzig X 2
Istanbul X 2
Young Boys

Moyes played

Leverkusen X2
Shakter X2
Sociedad X 2
Olimpiacos X 2
Bayern X 2

You'd expect Moyes to have a better win percentage. From those games it's a nonsense argument.
 

IDFD

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Our managers post Fergie? Not good enough. Yet other prime teams in Europe have came across a few. Cast your mind back 32 years When the scousers were untouchable in Euro football, that saga ended with their fans singing the praises for Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish for 3 decades.
Will u be happy enough with that?

I just don't see where you want to go. We've gone out and got the best available from league. We've then gone and got the best available in Europe. Now we are finally seeing progression your issue really is you don't like the fact he's not one of the popular names.

Or are you genuinely saying you can't see the progression in the side since Ole took over?
 

Macariman

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I just don't see where you want to go. We've gone out and got the best available from league. We've then gone and got the best available in Europe. Now we are finally seeing progression your issue really is you don't like the fact he's not one of the popular names.

Or are you genuinely saying you can't see the progression in the side since Ole took over?
Progression?
 

Berba_God

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Just because we have a succession of poor performing managers does not negate the weaknesses of Ole’s tenure.
Like most in our hearts want him to succeed without doubt. In my brain not the man that will bring is success in terms of trophies.
 

Macariman

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Comparing his record to that of Moyes in Europe is ridiculous really.

Ole has played

PSG X 4
Barcelona X 2
Leipzig X 2
Istanbul X 2
Young Boys

Moyes played

Leverkusen X2
Shakter X2
Sociedad X 2
Olimpiacos X 2
Bayern X 2

You'd expect Moyes to have a better win percentage. From those games it's a nonsense argument.
Look up percentage, there you'll find the facts.
We're currently sitting, with our present manager at a 34% success rate. Mesmerizing!
 

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