Harry Maguire "Leaks"

jsp

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"Harry needs pace around him, but he hasn't had that," a source close to Maguire told ESPN. "If you put [Man City's] Ruben Dias in the United defence and Harry in the City back-four, Dias would struggle and Harry would thrive. Harry hasn't had a good 12 months, but he hasn't been helped by those around him -- coaches or players -- so it's inevitable that his confidence and form have suffered."

Sources have said that Maguire's frustrations with goalkeeper David de Gea's communication and reluctance to defend further away from his goal-line were also a factor in the overall malaise in defence last season. That issue has been improved by Argentina defender Martinez's arrival from Ajax and his ability to communicate with, and instruct, De Gea in Spanish.


This was lifted from an article by Mark Ogden for ESPN on Maguire's problems going into the world cup it's a pretty confident thing for a journalist to write so must have come from a trusted source.

It's not good for the captain for stuff like this to leak out as you're just deflecting your own poor form on to others.

The second paragraph really does suggest the relationship between Maguire and De Gea is not good.
 

IDFD

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Chillini was in the press today saying United's fans treatment of Maguire is unfair.

'He might not be Rio Ferdinand but he should be playing'

Just seems to be a circus that follows him. He's not in the team no one needs to be talking about him.

And if it's him that's leaking stuff then he should be moved to train with others.
 

Mr C

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WTF is Chillini taling about, every game he's played we've lost. We've improved dramatically since he's been dropped. He should not be playing when the other squad members are doing better. He needs to earn his place.

As for the leak, I hope that's not from Maguire. Don't go blaming other people for your deficiencies. Basically he's too slow, and his game reading doesn't make up for it. Although I doubt that report. There is nothing wrong with De Gea's English.
 

jsp

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Context in results is vital though the Brighton, Brentford and Sociedad defeats really had sod all to do with Maguire but yeah statistically he started all those matches and the turn around in result also coincided with Shaw and Ronaldo being dropped.

Brighton I think we did enough to get a point from that game to be honest, Bruno misses a great chance at 0-0 and I don't really pin either goal on Maguire.
Brentford is on De Gea gifted the opponent 2 goals
Sociedad was a dodgy ref decision and to be fair the Sociedad performance was on par with Leicester or Southampton just on that day the break went Sociedad's way.

The change in fortunes isn't because we dropped Maguire it's because we've stopped dicking about with the ball at the back. The first two games of the season were a mess the short balls out by De Gea were causing major problems, as teams pressed us so easily, it's why since Brentford every goal kick/free kick goes long even if that means we don't have as much of the ball as we'd like.

I think there's a few people around Maguire trying to do a bit of good PR trying to get the press to lay off him but it's backfired when a journalist then prints it as people jump on it. I think Maguire should be closing ranks he won't win the PR battle in the press the manager has said this when he was asked about Maguire the only way to change the narrative around him is to play well. He's out of the team but there's loads of games to come when he comes in if he plays well he could easily reclaim his spot as Varane is made of glass.
 

Mr C

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He definitley needs to foucus on his form, and win his place back.

I did say when ETH arrived I'd be amazed if Maguire is at the club after 2 seasons. I still stick with that, and I think De Gea will be gone too.
 

jsp

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At this stage I'd be surprised if De Gea, AWB, Maguire or Shaw are here next season that is 4 of Ole's first choice back 5 gone.

I'm not even sure he'll stick with Varane that long if the injuries hit again.

I think it's for the best for all of them to move on for a new challenge and a fresh start elsewhere.

I can't see Maguire being stripped of the captaincy but it feels like it's the start of the end with him which is a shame because all round he seems like a decent guy but last season is going to be so hard for him to come back from at Utd.
 

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I think we'll avoid Timber just because do we really want a CB pairing that are both under 5'10''?
 

jsp

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Guess it depends on how Timber does this season but I'd like to think this summer our scouting department will be able to go a bit further than players who either play for Ajax or used to play for Ajax.

You would expect that if ETH is going to go for another centre back this summer he'll be looking for someone who is of a similar ilk to Varane just a lot younger and less injury prone. I think quite a few teams will have one eye on Bella-Coptcha at Southampton see how he does this season.

Can't see Lindelof sticking around if he's not playing either he doesn't strike me as a happy squad player.
 

RVN

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Makes me wonder if he has just pushed himself down further in the pecking order.
 

RVN

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Can you imagine Keano's reaction to all this stuff? Maguire is a lucky boy he doesn't share a dressing room with him, stop feeling sorry for yourself and grow up. As has already been said above, Maguire just needs to get his head down, work hard and try and get his place back in the side. What he must accept is that may still not be good enough to make the first team.
 

IDFD

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Are you forgetting Keane's behaviour?

You're talking about a guy that leaked to the media he was going to leave in his contract year to get a new contract and got sacked for slating the team around him when he wasn't good enough to make the team.

But yeah he's someone we should hold up as the light of the way to behave. Ridiculous.
 

jsp

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I can understand Maguire's frustration, as even in games where he did nothing wrong, he was still getting dogs abuse and he's even been booed playing for England which was ridiculous. Then having people complain that he's been called up for these games despite him being one of England's best players over the last 4 years.

There reaches a point where you probably do start to fight back just out of frustration but it won't get him anywhere and it'll just make it worse especially if you leak it to a journalist.
 

Mr C

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You could also say, we have to play in a specific way to accommodate his skill set, which affects the rest of the team. Results and performances don’t lie. And what he should do is knuckle down in training and work his way back into the team. Not spout off that it’s everyone else’s fault.

I don’t agree with booing him, but I do think it’s odd that players are picked for England, who are not playing for their clubs. Regardless of how well they played for England 6 months ago. And I think that point should be raised and discussed.

For me, I’ve never rated him, I don’t think he’s very good, he’s got way too many faults, and he’s being found out. However I don’t think he should be booed or persecuted. He should be sold to a club that’s more his level. Then he might get his confidence back and could say he’s earnt his place for England.

And I think he will be sold when replacements are found.
 

jsp

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I think the change in tactics after the first two games is mainly down to De Gea, he can't play the short game that is just a fact, it's why Spain don't pick him anymore despite him being an unbelievable shot stopper. It's why I think he'll be gone this summer and a new keeper will come in.

I think the complete opposite England are building a team over a 2 year period for a major tournament why would you look to change that just because a player who's played well in all the qualifying games and nation league games because he's out of favour at his club? Club football and international football should be treated as two completely separate things.

It's like the TAA issue he is one of the best right backs in the world playing for Liverpool but for England he's a liability because we don't have all the other bits to fit around him. It's kind of the opposite for Maguire the England system and team mates suit him.

I guess perspective is required it's pretty clear he isn't one of the absolute very best centre backs in the world but because we paid a sky high price for him he's compared to them. I think in his first 2 seasons with us he was in the top 5 centre backs in the league which is where we needed him to be but he suffered a massive drop in form last season.

For me he deserved a chance to redeem himself and he'll get that this season but if he can't get back to the player he was in his first two seasons he'll be gone.
 

RVN

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Are you forgetting Keane's behaviour?

You're talking about a guy that leaked to the media he was going to leave in his contract year to get a new contract and got sacked for slating the team around him when he wasn't good enough to make the team.

But yeah he's someone we should hold up as the light of the way to behave. Ridiculous.
I totally get what you're saying here, but he was also a vital cog in the best United midfield i'll ever see, helped control the dressing room for Sir Alex and protected his teammates when needed - Gary Neville at Arsenal. I understand Maguire's frustrations, but get your head down and work. Whatever the intentions, spouting off like this will not help his cause.
 

Mr C

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even then he's not good enough in my opinion, he'll never be fast enough and he'll never read the game to make up for it.

I fail to see how someone who does not play football can play for their country, but I understand why you think they could, I just disagree.
 

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Im unsure how anyone thinks he isn't worthy of his place for England. It's truly baffling. The England team is set up for him to perform and he's never let them down.

It's the same I say about Pickford. People don't want him being the #1 but he's always performed for England so you can't drop him.

Beckham was England captain when he couldn't get in the Madrid side. Don't remember a single person commenting he shouldn't get in the side.
 

IDFD

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I totally get what you're saying here, but he was also a vital cog in the best United midfield i'll ever see, helped control the dressing room for Sir Alex and protected his teammates when needed - Gary Neville at Arsenal. I understand Maguire's frustrations, but get your head down and work. Whatever the intentions, spouting off like this will not help his cause.

I understand holding Keane up for his performances on the pitch. Just not off of them. He leaked stuff to the press and he threw his team mates under the bus. He'd be the last person with a leg to stand on.
 

jsp

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It all depends on how you want to play, in Ole's plan to sit a bit deeper and counter attack he fit really well, under the new boss who wants to push a bit higher and leave more space he's got a problem because he doesn't have recovery pace to get back if he makes a mistake.

To put it simply premier league football is a much higher standard than international football and the pool of quality players available for international selection is smaller. I always go back to Podolski and Klose two of the best ever to put on the shirt for Germany both had very average club careers and were often on the bench but their starting spot for the national team was never in doubt.

Your position in the national team shouldn't really be dictated by what happens between matches if you play well for England you keep your spot if you stop playing well for England you lose it. Same way if Varane has a shocker for France and Maguire plays well for England I don't see ETH changing his starting XI as a result.

The issue around Maguire's position also applies to Stones who is struggling to get starts at City when everyone is fit

You have to separate the club game from the international game now.
 

Mr C

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Every start of season, players say they need games to get match fit. How can you be match fit if you're not playing I guess is the point.
 

jsp

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Well we're only a month or so into the season and he's started 3 matches.

In October Utd play 9 games if he's fit surely he's going to play in 3 or 4 of them as a minimum.

Even if he's only playing the midweek games that's still 1 game a week which will keep him ticking over where players I think really struggle is when they go weeks without playing.

The World Cup is strange as there's no training camp the first group games are basically 1 week after the prem season finishes so it's basically straight on the plane to the team hotel then a week of training and no warm up games.

The World Cup being mid season might be what saves his spot in the England side.
 

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