Fred-McTominay

jsp

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Key word there for me is trust he simply doesn’t trust his other midfielders to do both sides of the game.
 

jsp

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It's ridiculous when you know Fred can't do either side of the game.

He’s an easy target there are much more talented higher paid players who aren’t pulling their weight either every week. You know what you get from Fred it’s technically limited but he’s going to work his nuts off.
 

RichH2016

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I mean it says it all to be honest about that United midfield. That needs to be addressed before United can contend for the PL.
 

IDFD

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I mean it says it all to be honest about that United midfield. That needs to be addressed before United can contend for the PL.

Precisely. That's why 85 points and a title challenge is a good season
 

Justin Cider

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We've had far more technically gifted midfielders over the years i'm sure most would agree, but Fred works his tripe off every single game unlike some players I could name, and he was outstanding for 5 or 6 games this Summer for Brazil in a disciplined role in front of the back-four alongside Casemiro(two defensive midfielders, shocking), but United fans just love a fall-guy, so much so that if Fred isn't in the starting line-up we've got another crop of players waiting in line to replace him as head fall-guy for the day. Lingard, Martial, Jones ....

McTom and Fred is the best two-combo we've currently got at the club*, and by quite some distance as well, but on paper(ah if only we played on paper)Matic and Pogba are obviously better.

*Garner and Levitt if they could step up together next season or the year after would be the best of the lot. They find each other so effortlessly, i'm sure they're twins!
 

Cosmic Slop

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Fred's work rate is not impressive. Any decent United midfielder over the years has put in as much effort, if not more. I don't care that he runs around a lot, he just isn't very good.
 

Mr C

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I think he deserves a small amount of credit, he tries his best. His best is nowhere near good enough, but he gives his all.

Martial on the other hand.......
 

Justin Cider

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Fred's work rate is not impressive. Any decent United midfielder over the years has put in as much effort, if not more. I don't care that he runs around a lot, he just isn't very good.

Interesting. Money no object who do you buy to replace him?
 

jsp

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The thing is work rate is the minimum requirement for a Utd player especially in midfield and while Fred does work hard it isn't really enough because you need to match the hard work with ability to be a top player.

As for replacing Fred money no object it would be Kante lets be honest that little guy has been the best midfielder in this league since the day he arrived and when he's been fully fit he is like having two players an unbelievable player. Reads the game incredibly well, energy levels off the scale and also very good on the ball.
 

Mr C

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I read Cheslea are going to sell him next summer.

Can't really believe that.

I think money no object you've got to be looking at Rice.
 

jsp

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Think injuries are catching up with Kante a bit he's struggling to stay fit so Chelsea might see it as an opportunity to cash in and reinvest they've not been afraid to do that in the past especially if big bids are around. He's turning 31 this season is on massive wages and is coming into that last 2 years of his deal so they might see what's on the market for him.

The challenge will be to find the new Kante because he's a special player.
 

Mr C

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Chelsea will go for Rice, he wants to go there, use some of the Kante money.
 

Macariman

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Think injuries are catching up with Kante a bit he's struggling to stay fit so Chelsea might see it as an opportunity to cash in and reinvest they've not been afraid to do that in the past especially if big bids are around. He's turning 31 this season is on massive wages and is coming into that last 2 years of his deal so they might see what's on the market for him.

The challenge will be to find the new Kante because he's a special player.
I'd much rather see us sign Phillis from Leeds. Rice, fantastic young player but Phillips at 25 yr old on a 5 year deal.
The lad just has something very very special about him!
 

jsp

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I'd much rather see us sign Phillis from Leeds. Rice, fantastic young player but Phillips at 25 yr old on a 5 year deal.
The lad just has something very very special about him!

Yeah I think there's a few good uns knocking around in the league outside of the current big 4 that could move up to the bigger clubs Bissouma, Tielemens, Ndidi, Rice and Phillips all impress me whenever I see them but they are so expensive to buy. McGinn at Villa as well I really like him but I think he's got fitness issues.

One who's starting to catch the eye is Connor Gallagher who's on loan at Palace from Chelsea he was also very good on loan at West Brom last season expect he might be one who actually gets a bit of a chance at Chelsea next season if he keeps going the way he is.

Big issue for us with Phillips is he's Leeds through and through so it would need them to be in serious trouble for him to jump to us but I do agree he's a fine player.

There's going to need to be a big pot of money next summer to sort this problem as for me it need 2 or 3 new players to transform the midfield as the current lot aren't going to cut it no matter who's in charge.
 

IDFD

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Bissouma is the guy to go and get. Why it wasn't done this summer I don't know.
 

Macariman

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Yeah I think there's a few good uns knocking around in the league outside of the current big 4 that could move up to the bigger clubs Bissouma, Tielemens, Ndidi, Rice and Phillips all impress me whenever I see them but they are so expensive to buy. McGinn at Villa as well I really like him but I think he's got fitness issues.

One who's starting to catch the eye is Connor Gallagher who's on loan at Palace from Chelsea he was also very good on loan at West Brom last season expect he might be one who actually gets a bit of a chance at Chelsea next season if he keeps going the way he is.

Big issue for us with Phillips is he's Leeds through and through so it would need them to be in serious trouble for him to jump to us but I do agree he's a fine player.

There's going to need to be a big pot of money next summer to sort this problem as for me it need 2 or 3 new players to transform the midfield as the current lot aren't going to cut it no matter who's in charge.
I don't think McGinn or Gallagher play the position we r discussing. Apparently Bielsa is leaving Leeds next year for back home. Phillips, yeah Leeds all the way, the Yorkshire Pirlo I've heard him called, but has to experience Euro football. Must do something to fill that void, and yes it will cost big bucks but, if u pay peanuts u get monkeys!
 

IDFD

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Yeah McGinn and Gallagher are both players who play a bit further forward. I love McGinn and would definitely have him at United but he's not that man to relieve Pogba and Bruno from their defensive duties.
 

jsp

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I've seen Gallagher playing box to box which is what we really are looking for and I'd say McGinn is a similar player but both are playing in 3 man midfields not the two man system we play.

Pogba will be gone next season think that ships sailed to be honest and that potentially is a problem solved in my book unless he's shunted to the left he's a problem and if he's on the left we are missing a wide player.

Kessie is another at Milan and Barella at Inter the former is on a free this summer as his contract is up and Inter are skint.

Thing is we have't paid peanuts for players McTominay aside all those CM players cost over £40m.
 

SuperRash

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Think injuries are catching up with Kante a bit he's struggling to stay fit so Chelsea might see it as an opportunity to cash in and reinvest they've not been afraid to do that in the past especially if big bids are around. He's turning 31 this season is on massive wages and is coming into that last 2 years of his deal so they might see what's on the market for him.

The challenge will be to find the new Kante because he's a special player.
That’s the thing we don’t seem to be identifying these guys before they get their initial move, then they kick ass and then they are going to cost a bomb. We should be looking at getting Kante before he even joins Leicester.

Another example would of been getting Maguire before he moves onto Leicester and then he’s £70m.

Our scouting has been touched upon many times on the forum but we really need to be doing something better. I guess we have identified Pellistri and Diallo of late which is good but we need the guys to come in and basically ready made.

I guess it’s easy to say on a forum and for every Kante there are five duds but I just feel we need to be getting in there so much earlier and taking a chance.
 

Mr C

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I'd be after Norgaard, ok he's just signed a new deal, but I imagine 15-20m would get him.

But if we've got money, then Rice.
 

jsp

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To be fair everyone apart from Leicester missed Kante they had a scout in France looking at players in the second division who had dropped out of academies and they struck gold with him and Mahrez. Where you could say we missed was not being in the race for him after that first season at Leicester where he had a release clause of £35m Chelsea seemed to be the only club willing to pull the trigger and get him.

It's not easy as players need time to adapt and sometimes that adaptation is better done at clubs with less focus/eyes on them than Utd where the pressure is always on. Take Ndidi I bet he wasn't a star in every game from day one at Leicester but they've built him up and he's turned out to be a star but there will be others who didn't make that step. The lad they actually signed when Kante left was called Mendy he was tipped as the next Kante but never really got going cost them £13m but he's largely been forgotten about Leicester then went and got Ndidi 6 months later for £17m.

One I really think we missed as did everyone was Tielemens as soon as he had that 6 months on loan at Leicester and showed how good he was all the top clubs should have stepped in and took him instead they get him for around £30m and would now want double that.

Maguire to me is a fair shout Utd had the chance when Hull went down to take that gamble but I think we signied Lindelof instead that summer.

The rumours at the time were that Utd passed on Fabinho as Mourinho wanted Matic and 12 months later he ended up at Liverpool and developed into arguably the best holding midfielder in the league.

It's not easy for clubs like Utd to do these sort of deals as more often than not once we show interest other clubs get tipped off that we're in the race and we will obviously pay a bit more than others to get them.

I guess we wait to see on the scouting the signings this summer weren't exactly under the radar buys it was 3 mega high profile buys which sometimes are necessary. What was pretty clear this summer was midfield was never really on our radar in terms of buys.
 

Macariman

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I've seen Gallagher playing box to box which is what we really are looking for and I'd say McGinn is a similar player but both are playing in 3 man midfields not the two man system we play.

Pogba will be gone next season think that ships sailed to be honest and that potentially is a problem solved in my book unless he's shunted to the left he's a problem and if he's on the left we are missing a wide player.

Kessie is another at Milan and Barella at Inter the former is on a free this summer as his contract is up and Inter are skint.

Thing is we have't paid peanuts for players McTominay aside all those CM players cost over £40m.
If, and when, we sign someone to fill that void e.g. Phillips, Rice, Bissouma, Ndidi, Tielemans, or indeed Kessie( fantastic player) were gonna have to pay well in excess of 40 mill, closer to double.
 

jsp

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If, and when, we sign someone to fill that void e.g. Phillips, Rice, Bissouma, Ndidi, Tielemans, or indeed Kessie( fantastic player) were gonna have to pay well in excess of 40 mill, closer to double.

Kessie is free this summer Utd should be all over him but I reckon he will have his pick of clubs.

But yeah midfield will be an expensive problem to solve.
 

Cosmic Slop

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Interesting. Money no object who do you buy to replace him?
I think the list of players better than him who would instantly improve us is as long as you'd care to make, you could list players until your fingers grew numb. Even halfway decent players like Rice or Maddison would be a massive upgrade. I like Bissouma, I like Kessie. I don't even know who Gallagher and McGinn are but I like them better than Fred already.
 

Justin Cider

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I think the list of players better than him who would instantly improve us is as long as you'd care to make, you could list players until your fingers grew numb. Even halfway decent players like Rice or Maddison would be a massive upgrade. I like Bissouma, I like Kessie. I don't even know who Gallagher and McGinn are but I like them better than Fred already.

Rice would be an upgrade can't deny that but would cost circa £90m and Maddison is more a no.10.

Bissouma is 25, limited, and still playing for Brighton for a reason.

And Gallagher, if he continues to develop on loan will be difficult to get out of Chelsea without breaking the bank, and McGinn, somebody by all accounts SAF recommended we signed a few years ago has probably found his level at Villa.

Oops forgot Kessie, he's 25 in December, been talked about as the next great thing since he was 17 yet has had only one above average season, so no great upgrade on Fred for me.
 

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