Fred | Match Discussion thread 2021/22

jsp

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I'd rather have a red carder than a red facer

To be fair Bailly would never have let Grey get away on Saturday.

They'd still be picking bits of his body out of the turf.

I think it would take a lot of coaching to get Bailly into that position on the pitch and he's also made of glass so not sure he'd last the full 90 minutes once a week let alone twice a week.

Sadly I think we're just stuck with McFred and Matic until at the earlier January by which times any chance of winning titles could be gone.
 

Mr C

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Well if he's fit, as they say he is, he's played there before, and granted he's not not much better than Fred, but Jones must be worth a try.

I mean it's terrible we are in this situation really.
 

jsp

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I mean Jones hasn't kicked a ball on the pitch in almost 2 years realistically what game could we even try this experiment?
 

Macariman

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We need to know the thinking behind it too. Does Ole genuinely feel that McFred are good enough to start every week? If he does that is a sackable offence on its own. Or is he not getting the backing from above? Or was he given a certain amount of money to spend and decided to spend it where he did? I guess we will never know the answers to this but I would love to hear Oles take on it.
He seems to have thought that for the last 2 yrs
 

IDFD

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Phillips was asked on Friday if he'd join us and he said no his family wouldn't forgive him.
 

Macariman

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When playing for rangers, Fergie got engaged to a Catholic girl. His family told him they would never speak to him again. That dirty bunch of basturts he was playing for sacked him the next day. Look where he ended up.
 

jsp

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Alan Smith said similar things but football can change quickly pretty sure Smith later said the money from the sale basically kept the lights on at Leeds for another season as they were broke. The club pretty much told him they needed him to go.
 

Macariman

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I've said this before. When Utd made the offer for old Pat, which was the highest fee made to any club in Scotland, he cried, literally, to his Boss saying that he didn't want to go, why r u doing this to me
Money talks!
 

Mr C

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I mean Jones hasn't kicked a ball on the pitch in almost 2 years realistically what game could we even try this experiment?
That's as ridiculous a comment as it's an actually a serious option for us.

Are you saying no player can come back from injury? We wean him in like any player coming back from injury. It's not an experiment, he's played cm often.
 

jsp

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That's as ridiculous a comment as it's an actually a serious option for us.

Are you saying no player can come back from injury? We wean him in like any player coming back from injury. It's not an experiment, he's played cm often.

He's spent nearly two years on the touchline with a knee problem and you want him to go into a position that requires players to run over 10km a game loads of high impact challenges and sprints and changes in direction?

What games are we going to wean him in on? Have you seen our fixture list over the next month. Our easiest game is Spurs away.

Utd going out of the league cup has left him snookered really in terms of first team chances he should be playing some U23 matches and then trying to get out on loan for the second half of the season to test out the knee.

It's also a long long time ago he was playing midfield was maybe his first season at the club since then he's been a centre back or right back and from memory he was not very good in central midfield he just went in there due to injuries.
 

Mr C

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lets stick with the reliable McFred then and make no attempts to change anything as it's too risky with the big games coming up. As long as what we are doing is beating teams like Villa and and Everton.

If a player is deemed fit enough, then they should be able to be picked regardless of when they last played. And of course you couldn't play Jones for 90 minutes.

I mean good grief it's embarrassing that he is even an option. But what we are saying currently is we need to pick a combo of Pogba, Mctom, Matic, Fred and DVDB. We've tried all combinations, none work, so we either change the system, or change the personnel.

If we change the system then Bruno suffers.

This harks back to my comment on the other thread. Ole is too scared to make the big calls. We'll carry on like this and our season will be over before December.
 

jsp

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How do you change the system when no combination of your midfield works no matter what you do you are picking 2 or 3 players who aren't really up to scratch.

He is basically stuck with what he's got now unless he gambles on a kid from the youth team like Hannibal which I think would be a very desperate move.

He needs to get his players back in form and to me needs to be much more hands on with the coaching on the side making sure they're doing the job he needs them to do.

With Rashford fit surely we won't be seeing Pogba on the left anymore maybe he will have to trust Pogba as his most talented player to go into midfield and follow strict instructions to sit deeper and protect the defence and not allow himself to be caught up field.
 

IDFD

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I'd be going back to Pogba and Matic in the league games.

But we are never going to move to that in the big games and Fred and McT will both have stormers and everyone will race about how good they are.
 

jsp

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For me the worst pairings are Pogba/McTominay and Fred/Matic I think those two combos needs to be avoided at all costs.

Just think Matic means you are always having to hold one sub for him as he'll never get through 90 minutes think he's done a decent job coming on just don't think he can start and be relied on.

As annoying as it is McFred is the still the obvious solution and we're just going to have to live with the ups and downs that come with that until new players arrive.
 

Mr C

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How do you change the system when no combination of your midfield works no matter what you do you are picking 2 or 3 players who aren't really up to scratch.
There are more formations that the one we currently play.

It's obvious we cannot play it, so he needs to pick the right formation to suit the players we have, even if that means dropping a star player.
 

jsp

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There are more formations that the one we currently play.

It's obvious we cannot play it, so he needs to pick the right formation to suit the players we have, even if that means dropping a star player.

Well given we don't have a specialist right wing back for me that rules out any sort of back 3 formation. Our defensive options to me force us into playing a back 4

We don't have a specialist holding midfield player so that makes a midfield 3 tricky as that man in the middle is vital.

We do have one of the best number 10's in world football so he needs to be accomodated, some of the best wide forwards and 2 of the best number 9's around so the system we do play does make sense.

What I do think he needs to do is put the breaks on it a bit which won't excite fans but we need the two that play in the centre to make sure that at all times one of them stays and protects the defence. For me against both Villareal and Everton both got caught ahead of the ball way to often leaving the defence exposed to counter attacks. The full backs also are getting caught way to high up the pitch leaving massive gaps in wide areas for the opponent to exploit.

I think he needs to settle on an XI and stick with it for a few games when we return that might mean leaving some big names on the bench but so be it. What will be a huge boost to him will be if Rashford returns in his very best form.
 

IDFD

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Whatever formation you play you need to have 2 CM's that can play football and not actually just imposters.

I think as JSP says above you need to play a 4-2-3-1 and just tell those CM's you sit here don't try anything your job is to protect and get the ball to the creative players. The front 4 and Shaw will deal with the rest.
 

Mr C

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I don't really agree we couldn't change this up.

But it's irrelevant, he needs to do that, or what jsp said. Whatever it is he needs to change this slump or come December our season is over
 

jsp

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I think he's got to stop trying to please everyone pick what he feels is his best team and stick with it, he will obviously need to make changes to keep it fresh but we shouldn't be making 3 or 4 changes per game for the sake of it. Some of the rotation has been because of injury to the defence but in midfield there's been a lot of chopping and changing.

Leeds (h) - McTominay/Fred
Southampton (a) - Matic/Fred
Wolves (a) - Fred/Pogba

Newcastle (h) - Pogba/Matic
Young Boys (a) - Fred/VDB
West Ham (a) - Fred/McTominay
West Ham (h) - VDB/Matic/Mata
Villa (h) - Fred/McTominay
Villareal (h) - Pogba/McTominay
Everton (h) - Fred/McTominay

In 10 games we've used 7 different central midfield line ups never picked the same pair two games in a row either but our two best performances this season for me Leeds (h) and West Ham (a) it's been McFred so I think that's the one he needs to stick with and put his faith in even though we know it's flaws.
 

Mr C

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We do have one of the best number 10's in world football
Do you mean Bruno?

He had a really poor end of last season, his stats this season aren't great, especially post Ronaldo.

He's not undropable for me. Great player for us, been amazing, but I think he's dropped off a bit. We can't pick players because of what they've done in the past.

Why aren't we giving Pogba a go in there, Sancho and Greenwood wide.

Whatever formation you play you need to have 2 CM's that can play football and not actually just imposters.

We have Donny on the bench, I didn't watch Ajax, but I assume he showed some quality for Madrid to want him and us to buy him. I read on here we don't play the formation he played at Ajax so he is struggling. So lets give that formation a go, lets put him there and try and get the best out him.

Lets try something different is all I'm saying. I don't for one minute think I know best here, all I am trying to highlight is, there are other options rather than persisitng the one we know isn't working.

We might drop better players, but will the team be better is the key.

I hear on here all the time, we are team of individuals. So let's try and put a team out. I can't believe, with the squad we have, we can't put out a group of 11 players that can play together and beat Villa and a depleted Everton.

We don't have to put the 11 best players out and hope they can gel.
 

IDFD

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The problem isn't our better players though. It's our worst player is in hurrendous form. It isn't coming because we are just putting our best 11 out there or Fred wouldn't be playing.

In 3 league games Fred is directly to blame for 4 of the 7 points dropped.

Southampton - Bruno gives the ball away easily and Fred with a half hearted block
Villa - De Gea should protest the offside more. Bruno misses a late pen.
Everton - Fred with a half hearted challenge which should have stopped the counter.

In the cup games:

Young Boys - AWB gets sent off when we were 1-0 up. Lingard makes a stupid error.
West Ham - Complete second team.

Poor Individual mistakes are to blame for 4 of the 5 games we've dropped points in. As a team even if you aren't playing well you've got to cut out these mistakes by being focused and giving 100%.
 

Mr C

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Well that answers my question, we need to remove him to better the team.

We have Donny on the bench who I can only assume is a decent player, put him in the formation he likes, drop whoever you need to drop, and give it a go. It's an option.

Also, have we even given him a chance in the middle, someone on here said he was our best player vs West Ham, has he even had a minute since? He can't be any worse than Fred, it's about time he got on the rotation for a starting spot.

Some of the decisions being made are baffling. Need a result desperately, international break coming up, drop Pogba and Ronaldo. Lingard is scoring, doesn't get a game. Martial over Sancho. Ok he scored but he isn't going to attack like Sancho will.
 

jsp

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Since Ronaldo arrived it's 1 goal and 1 assist in the league for Bruno they did combine for Ronaldo's goal in the CL it's fair to say those two haven't clicked yet but they will once they get used to playing with each. At the moment I think they get in each others way sometimes as Ronaldo likes to drop off the front rather than run in behind which brings him into spaces Bruno likes but Bruno needs to use that movement to go in behind.

I certainly wouldn't call him undroppable no player should ever have that status I think Lingard being around gives us chances to rest him and bring him off in games where he is getting tired and struggling to have an impact.

The issue I see this season is none of our defenders have really looked at their best all had slugglish starts to the season and midfield has been a problem. They aren't protecting the defence, keeping the ball or creating much.

He needs a core group of players to find their form and be reliable so there's always a platform to build on for me that means picking a consistent side for a few games and resisting the urge to change it as often as he has been.
 

Mr C

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I did notice Bruno rarely made the starting 11 for Portugal in the summer.
 

jsp

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I did notice Bruno rarely made the starting 11 for Portugal in the summer.

Yeah they struggled to find a way of getting him in as Jota is a goal machine for the national team so they like having him and Ronaldo together almost as a front 2 which meant Bruno didn't really fit in the side.

It was a genuine concern people had when Ronaldo arrived how that partnership would develop so far I'm not worried I think they'll work it out but Bruno likes to encourage his team to press the opponent but with Ronaldo up top that won't be happening.
 

RichH2016

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Well he’s not an embarrassment, that is very much hyperbole right there.
I don't think it is hyperbole. He's not fit to wear the United shirt and I would put good money on no other PL team wanting him if he were available.
 

RichH2016

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Personally, I would give Bailly a go in that role. Can't be any worse than Fred. Nothing gets past him and that debacle with Gray if it was Bailly, I think man and/Or ball would've ended up in Row Z.
He's sitting 4th choice as CB, not much to lose as the Brazilian has shown us for over 2 yrs now
Bailly in CDM? Lindelof in CDM has been another suggestion and to be honest bud neither are good suggestions. Would they be worse than Fred? Probably not no. But they probably wouldn't be better either.
 

Justin Cider

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I don't think it is hyperbole. He's not fit to wear the United shirt and I would put good money on no other PL team wanting him if he were available.

That says a lot for the standard of the Premier League then if no club however desperate would take a punt on a integral player in the current Brazilian national team.
 

SuperRash

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I don't think it is hyperbole. He's not fit to wear the United shirt and I would put good money on no other PL team wanting him if he were available.
Again, that’s a bit of an overreaction. I would say a lot of PL clubs would take Fred if he was available right now. Obviously not the very top ones, which is probably a fair assessment of the player he is.
 

Justin Cider

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Again, that’s a bit of an overreaction. I would say a lot of PL clubs would take Fred if he was available right now. Obviously not the very top ones, which is probably a fair assessment of the player he is.

100%

At a decent price Spurs, Arsenal and Everton would take him in a heartbeat, as would all the clubs below them.
 

Cosmic Slop

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I don't think it is hyperbole. He's not fit to wear the United shirt and I would put good money on no other PL team wanting him if he were available.
I am no fan of Fred and I've basically been gunning for him since he signed with us, BUT you are overstating it. He wouldn't get a game in any of the top half, but I imagine when you start hitting 17th place (Southampton, Burnley, Newcastle, Norwich) he would be welcomed. It's early in the season and a lot of clubs around the middle are too good for Fred (Leicester, Wolves, Spurs) and some of the new boys have been punching above their weight class. anyway, I digress. Fred is not good enough for United, let's leave it at that.
 

Cosmic Slop

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100%

At a decent price Spurs, Arsenal and Everton would take him in a heartbeat, as would all the clubs below them.
Disagree. Aston Villa ran circles around our midfield, for instance, why would they downgrade by taking Fred? Villa are in 10th, Arsenal 11th. He wouldn't get anywhere near a functioning Arsenal side.
 

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