Erik ten Hag | United trigger contract extension

As for the squad I think we've got a squad full of good players but no great players. Right now there's a real lack of proven top quality in that squad a lot of money has been spent but I don't look at the squad and think wow that's a fantastic squad.

Keeper - he's a good keeper he isn't a brilliant one. Good with his feet, makes some good saves but he has a mistake in him.

Defenders - they're all good defenders but do any of them are brilliant? I don't think so with the exception of Shaw who is never fit.

Midfield - Still a mess and a massive weakness that wasn't addressed in the summer.

Attack - Rashford is in his prime years now but he's still a streaky player that you can't really rely on and the rest are young players who are struggling for consistency.

To me there's still big money that has to be spent on the midfield ASAP no matter who the manager is we are miles behind the top sides in this area.

As for the attack they really need the players they've spent money on so far to come good but fans are rightfully worried as there's little evidence they will. Antony, Mount, Hojlund and Zirkzee so far have made little impact it's really the kids who've come through who've carried the team from a goals point of view.
 
ETH is the problem. He is way too stubborn and he does not adapt. he lost to Spurs in the CL because he would not change. This is happening at United. He refuses to play two DMs to get a bit if stability. He then plays Bruno. Yes I know that he is individually very talented but he simply cannot play the way ETH wants to play which is keeping possession too when the opportunity does not arise for a quick transition. If we keep giving the ball away like we always do then we will get punished. If he keeps rotating for the sake of rotating then we will get punished. It is the Ronaldo conundrum with Ole. Bruno needs to be play a disciplined game ( position wise) or he should be dropped.
Maybe it is time for our forwards to do their jobs on their own without so much help from the two full backs? But now it is time this is put to bed and a new manager comes in to take over. This cannot go on like this.
 
Ten Hag will absolutely still be in charge of you guys come your next game. There’s no way they are going to sack him after a “positive” away draw at Villa. Plus I’m not even sure who they’d bring in? Tuchel was spoken to in the summer and they didn’t want him then.
 
Well, things change. Tuchel knows he holds all the cards and did in the summer too, so he's not going to change his demands too much. I think we will become more open to what he wants and maybe we can find a middle ground that works for both parties. He's the only one that I can see that will come in and instantly demand respect from everywhere - the people above him and the players. As much as I wouldn't mind Ruud taking over for the rest of the season with a view to getting the job next year, Tuchel would be my first choice. He's the way forward now, even if he's only going to be around 2-3 years. I think he'd sort a lot of stuff out and at the very least get a team playing some football. We can't take much more of this stuff we're watching right now, it really is nearly enough to make you give up. I will never do that, but my brain is telling me to.

As I have said recently - these next set of upcoming fixtures are crucial and will definitely decide if he keeps his job or not. I'm hoping it won't just come down to results though - the team has to also show some sort of cohesiveness and display confidence or we would still just be waiting for the next set of bad results.

Unfortunately I just don't think ETH has the ability to do this - he will be sacked very soon. The pain needs to end.
 
What I don’t get is how Ten Hag can continue to have the backing of the owners? Asides from the FA Cup you guys have underperformed for over a year now and there are no signs that’s going to change. The style is still almost nonexistent and the results are still poor. I just don’t get how they could still completely back him? There’s just no way.
 
I find this no style thing very odd there clearly is a style there's just big questions about how effective it is.

First two games of the season we saw the 4-2-2-2 thing again as neither striker was fit but since then it's been 4-2-3-1 from the start in every game with the intention of passing out from the back, squeezing up the pitch and pressing from the front. He did change that against Villa where he was a bit more cautious with the line and didn't press as aggressively clearly decided to kill the game and just play for a point.

I don't think passing out from the back and building up the play really suits any of our midfielders. None of them have an excellent short passing game so quite often when that ball goes into midfield it's either lost or just goes back to the defence.

Then you look at our forwards and all of them want the ball quickly none of them really have a cutting edge when the game slows down and teams are well set defensively. The only one who seems to enjoy working in tight space is probably Amad.
 
The defence is crap - badly coached and organised.
The midfield is crap - badly coached and organised.
The attack is non existent, so nothing to coach and organise.

Most of them are now his purchases and he doesn't seem to know how shit they are, so I don't think there is much else to say about ETH as a manager to be honest.
 
Let's be honest - the state of the team right now you wouldn't be surprised to learn the whole squad want out.

Just another potential Sancho situation.

And SuperRash has always defended ETH, nothing new here. Why is the more bemusing part.
 
I mean let’s assume this story is true which I’m pretty sure it isn’t then Garnacho needs to follow him out the door.
 
I find this no style thing very odd there clearly is a style there's just big questions about how effective it is.
I don’t know bud… There seems to be no distinct style week to week. You lack any kind of organisation in most games and there’s no pattern to your attacking play. If you watch Liverpool you know what you are going to get in terms of style. City, Arsenal the same. Hell even Spurs and my Southampton you know what you are going to see. But United? I just don’t see it.
 
I don’t know bud… There seems to be no distinct style week to week. You lack any kind of organisation in most games and there’s no pattern to your attacking play. If you watch Liverpool you know what you are going to get in terms of style. City, Arsenal the same. Hell even Spurs and my Southampton you know what you are going to see. But United? I just don’t see it.

Do you watch us every week?

There has been a clear style we're just not very good at it.

Up until the Villa game we'd been playing the exact same way for 6 or 7 games.
 
It wouldn't surprise me about Garnacho, he is another player who doesn't look happy. And didnt he like something on insta he had to remove?

Saying he has to leave even if the manager goes is a bit silly, he's still putting lots of effort in for the club. But if he;s not happy and the keep ETH then why does he have to stay? If we get good money, no point keeping unhappy players
 
It doesn’t surprise because it suits the narrative. It’s a nonsense rumour. There’s rumours that Rashford wants out if Ten Hag is sacked.
 
Do you watch us every week?

There has been a clear style we're just not very good at it.

Up until the Villa game we'd been playing the exact same way for 6 or 7 games.
Doesn't that constitute no style?

It has to work to be a style of play otherwise it's just called a mess.

A coach should trial and error variations of his supposed style and find a working one. ETH has not.

Having a consistent formation with and without the ball is not a style - nor is a basic pressing plan. You could even argue the turnover/counter attack he looks to do is not a style/tactic either as getting the ball back via a mistake by the opposition will usually just happen naturally. Only teams like City require pressed hard or if you want to exploit a team with players who are poor in possession.

So he's only picked a few formations and told his players to get the ball back and counter quickly - I could do that. I don't think I'd be credited with any type of style here at all other than a very basic counter attack which at this level is very poor.

It doesn’t surprise because it suits the narrative. It’s a nonsense rumour. There’s rumours that Rashford wants out if Ten Hag is sacked.

Rubbish. Rashford bleeds United.
 
It wouldn't surprise me about Garnacho, he is another player who doesn't look happy. And didnt he like something on insta he had to remove?

Saying he has to leave even if the manager goes is a bit silly, he's still putting lots of effort in for the club. But if he;s not happy and the keep ETH then why does he have to stay? If we get good money, no point keeping unhappy players

Garnacho is a bit of a silly lad sounds like he's a bit of a hot head and I think ETH has managed him incredible well if he can't see that then he's going to be trouble.

If he's threatening to leave unless a manager is sacked then he doesn't belong at the club you can't have players who think they're bigger than the boss knocking around at a club.

In my opinion Garnacho's profile is massively elevated by being a Man Utd player he's a talented kid but he's still a long long way from being a world class one. Part of the problem with kids coming through at Utd is their reputation probably grows a little bit to quick for their own good.
 
Do you watch us every week?

There has been a clear style we're just not very good at it.

Up until the Villa game we'd been playing the exact same way for 6 or 7 games.
I don’t watch you every week no but I’ve seen probably 4/5 of your games this year and you don’t know what you are going to get. There’s no pattern to the attack, there’s no structure to moving forwards. Other teams have a very set way of playing but United just don’t seem to.
 
Doesn't that constitute no style?

It has to work to be a style of play otherwise it's just called a mess.

A coach should trial and error variations of his supposed style and find a working one. Or better yet, try something different.

Having a consistent formation with and without the ball is not a style - nor is a basic pressing plan. You could even argue the turnover/counter attack he looks to do is not a style/tactic either as getting the ball back via a mistake by the opposition will usually just happen naturally. Only teams like City require pressed hard or if you want to exploit a team with players who are poor in possession.

So he's only picked a few formations and told his players to get the ball back and counter quickly - I could do that. I don't think I'd be credited with any type of style here at all other than a very basic counter attack which at this level is very poor.

Where does it say it has to work to be a style? Southampton have a style but currently it doesn't work because they're not good enough to play that way against premier league teams.

You can see the basic outline of what ETH wants to do but it hasn't been working and it will be interesting to see what he does about it after the break as there was a clear shift vs Villa to be more cautious and not press.

Not all problems are system related the system didn't cause players to make poor defensive decisions in some games that cost goals and miss great chances but there are definitely some issues with the way he sets the team up that have to change especially against better sides. Villa to me looked like a reaction to Liverpool/Spurs it felt a bit like back to the drawing board.

The pressing from the front hasn't really worked in the 4-2-3-1 the wide players don't really press and recover the ball and in that system Bruno is normally to far from the striker so it's very hard to get pressure on the ball when teams play out. When we used the 4-2-2-2 the press seemed to work a lot better but we struggled to create chances.

The play out from the back didn't really change under either system Utd build up the way a lot of teams do but what they don't do is once they play through a press they don't get the ball quickly to players in space and we also don't have someone to hit over the top.
 
Where does it say it has to work to be a style? Southampton have a style but currently it doesn't work because they're not good enough to play that way against premier league teams.

You can see the basic outline of what ETH wants to do but it hasn't been working and it will be interesting to see what he does about it after the break as there was a clear shift vs Villa to be more cautious and not press.

Not all problems are system related the system didn't cause players to make poor defensive decisions in some games that cost goals and miss great chances but there are definitely some issues with the way he sets the team up that have to change especially against better sides. Villa to me looked like a reaction to Liverpool/Spurs it felt a bit like back to the drawing board.

The pressing from the front hasn't really worked in the 4-2-3-1 the wide players don't really press and recover the ball and in that system Bruno is normally to far from the striker so it's very hard to get pressure on the ball when teams play out. When we used the 4-2-2-2 the press seemed to work a lot better but we struggled to create chances.

The play out from the back didn't really change under either system Utd build up the way a lot of teams do but what they don't do is once they play through a press they don't get the ball quickly to players in space and we also don't have someone to hit over the top.
I think if you have a style of play it's there to see for everyone. Why are the world struggling to see it? The same thing is being said everywhere you look - no clear effective style. Only us United fans know what he's trying to do because we watch it week in week out. As I said though trying to do something, is not doing it.

Results and performances prove the above point. Our team is broken - that equates to no working system.

That's just how I feel about it. if you feel otherwise, fair enough.
 
I think if you have a style of play it's there to see for everyone. Why are the world struggling to see it? The same thing is being said everywhere you look - no clear effective style. Only us United fans know what he's trying to do because we watch it week in week out. As I said though trying to do something, is not doing it.

Results and performances prove the above point. Our team is broken - that equates to no working system.

That's just how I feel about it. if you feel otherwise, fair enough.

I think we're pretty much on the same page with saying it isn't working that isn't really up for debate.

Why it isn't working is a much harder question. If the attackers finish their chances against Brighton and Palace we probably have 5 extra points and are sitting in a lot prettier position but the defeats to Spurs/Liverpool sort of show that the way he's setting up the team has some major flaws in it.

My issue is people saying we don't have a style like he hasn't done anything to change the way we play in 2 years. He has changed the way we play quite a bit but it isn't getting results.

So the question now is will these players improve within the current system and generate better results or do we have to change the system to one that they can perform in.

I always come back to the same issue when I look at how we play and that's in midfield we are miles off the top sides in terms of quality. No matter how you arrange that midfield it's always going to be a problem. Casemiro/Eriksen are physically nowhere near the standard, Mainoo & Bruno together makes us very open.
 
I think we're pretty much on the same page with saying it isn't working that isn't really up for debate.

Why it isn't working is a much harder question. If the attackers finish their chances against Brighton and Palace we probably have 5 extra points and are sitting in a lot prettier position but the defeats to Spurs/Liverpool sort of show that the way he's setting up the team has some major flaws in it.

My issue is people saying we don't have a style like he hasn't done anything to change the way we play in 2 years. He has changed the way we play quite a bit but it isn't getting results.

So the question now is will these players improve within the current system and generate better results or do we have to change the system to one that they can perform in.

I always come back to the same issue when I look at how we play and that's in midfield we are miles off the top sides in terms of quality. No matter how you arrange that midfield it's always going to be a problem. Casemiro/Eriksen are physically nowhere near the standard, Mainoo & Bruno together makes us very open.
We definitely have to change the attempted approach. He's tried a crazy amount of different personnel and none of them in any form of team seem to be thriving the way he is trying to play. The only player with any sort of consistency last year was Dalot. That's one player, and that is definitely more of a personal performance based consistency. So you have to ask yourself are these players this bad? I don't think they are. So by process of elimination it must be the tactics. At least that's how I see it.

I agree with you to a point that there is some sort of system, but it's not one that is easily identified, or one that the media and pundits give any credit to, and that is because it doesn't work. So can it be called a system? I suppose, if you want to be totally precise about it.

And if it is the midfield that is the problem, as you say, why has it not been addressed? If he knows the attempted style he is trying to play requires stronger central midfielders then it has to come down to his failures again.

A good coach will always play to a teams strengths, and ETH still has not managed to do this or he cannot work out what will best benefit our current set of players. It's all a bit crazy because it's his team now - he's had a good while to build the team and mould into what he needs for his style. Yet we still see no results. The consistency hasn't even improved at all.

His excuses of it takes time and he needs more players just doesn't wash any more. Most coaches can take charge of a team and instantly set it up to play as they want - that is the very mark of a good coach.

All in all I agree with you though mostly, there is an actual system. Rambled a bit about ETh... meh.
 
Really thought INEOS had higher standards, clearly not when they keep faith with a guy who took us to 14th, let's not forget the fact we are the second lowest scorers in league too.

They made a monumental mistake going back on sacking him after Palace. They got too caught up in the emotion of that FA Cup Final. This was their chance to put things right but have bottled it again.

Never thought I would reach a point where defeats and draws leave me feeling like ah well serves them right for believing in this guy.
 
And if it is the midfield that is the problem, as you say, why has it not been addressed? If he knows the attempted style he is trying to play requires stronger central midfielders then it has to come down to his failures again.

All in all I agree with you though mostly, there is an actual system. Rambled a bit about ETh... meh.

I think given the chance he’d have signed more midfielders this summer but with Casemiro & Eriksen staying he’s kind of stuck with them and has to make the best of it.

The fee and contract handed to Casemiro was a joke and I bet the Real Madrid directors still have a good chuckle over that one every summer. Same can be said for Mount which was always an odd signing.

I think as fans we have to accept that whoever identified those 3 and signed off the fees has made a massive mistake. Problem is we can’t make mistakes like that anymore and buy our way out of trouble. The finances are tightening now with lost CL revenues.

Over the summer we’ve lost McT and Amrabat and bought in Ugarte. That plus the on going decline of Casemiro/Eriksen means we are way weaker in midfield this season than last.
 
I think given the chance he’d have signed more midfielders this summer but with Casemiro & Eriksen staying he’s kind of stuck with them and has to make the best of it.

The fee and contract handed to Casemiro was a joke and I bet the Real Madrid directors still have a good chuckle over that one every summer. Same can be said for Mount which was always an odd signing.

I think as fans we have to accept that whoever identified those 3 and signed off the fees has made a massive mistake. Problem is we can’t make mistakes like that anymore and buy our way out of trouble. The finances are tightening now with lost CL revenues.

Over the summer we’ve lost McT and Amrabat and bought in Ugarte. That plus the on going decline of Casemiro/Eriksen means we are way weaker in midfield this season than last.
So are you saying it's not his fault? That he hasn't had enough time to recruit the right players, and it's more of a club recruitment problem? Or something like that?

I feel like ETH would have had plenty of say in most of the signings, and had input as to whether they were/are a good fit for his system.
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
Don't have an account? Register now
or Log in using
Back
Top