Erik ten Hag named new United manager

IDFD said:
Surprised at the vitriol from you Mr. C
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I wouldn't call it vitriol, just pragmatic.

As you know and said, normally I back the manager over the players, as I have on here many times.

But it's just not going to work with this ownership. What I wish for, back the manager, take a hit and get rid of trouble makers, have a long term goal to get the right players, playing the right system to win things.

They just don't care. So the point I'm trying to make, under this ownership, he is toast already, he'll be gone by next summer. So there is an argument of pulling the trigger now, and trying to salvage something.

There is the ongoing issue of the awful football we are playing, and the amount of players out of form and there does look an issue between players and coach.

I would love us to back the manager and get rid of players who I see a bad eggs, and your Bruno would be top of the list, with Antony. Not got the attitude.

It's completely different to Fergie, the players hadn't given up on him
 
Ten Hag has equalled Ernest Mangnall’s record to become the quickest manager to 50 wins for United.
 
Just been looking at United’s forthcoming fixtures for the rest of year. After Luton, United will play:

Everton (a)
Galatasary (a)
Newcastle (a)
Chelsea (h)
Bournemouth (h)
Bayern Munich (h)
Liverpool (a)
West Ham (a)
Aston Villa (h)
Forest (a)

The run of fixtures won’t necessarily make Teg Hag, but it could break him. Do we think he will still be the manager on 1st January?
 
I think he will be in charge with this takeover stuff going on in the background I don't think there's and desire to change the manager during the season unless the team starts risking relegation.

Him being charge for the opening game on next season I'd say is a 50/50 call at this point. Think even if we end up 6th or 7th but in the second half of the season the team starts to click and we see some attacking threat you keep him on and let him continue building.

However, we're almost 18 months in and the team is still dreadful going forward and there has to be serious questions raised over the signings made while he's been in charge.

Bayern Munich (h)
Liverpool (a)
West Ham (a)
Aston Villa (h)

Based on current form that's going to be a very tricky run of games he can't go to Anfield and take another pumping the team have to show up in that one and give them a proper game.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Just been looking at United’s forthcoming fixtures for the rest of year. After Luton, United will play:

Everton (a)
Galatasary (a)
Newcastle (a)
Chelsea (h)
Bournemouth (h)
Bayern Munich (h)
Liverpool (a)
West Ham (a)
Aston Villa (h)
Forest (a)

The run of fixtures won’t necessarily make Teg Hag, but it could break him. Do we think he will still be the manager on 1st January?
Click to expand...

Have little doubt ETH will be here in 2 years time. Fans won’t keep hounding managers out.
 
I do think the tide is turning on him as it should be with the way the team has played since that cup win last season but it's how he deals with this that will determine his future. Can he turn it around or will things continue to drift.
 
Guess the problem is I don’t think there is ever a good run of fixtures for us at the moment. Most clubs can beat anyone on their day now as a lot of clubs can spend big money. Whereas back in the day the top clubs were the ones spending the money and the smaller clubs were just plugging along hoping to take something from the big clubs.
 
The team is playing awful football, that is on him, no matter the injuries, whoever comes out should know what style he wants to play.

But the mess is the background is even more exagerated than with the other managers because of the fu$$ up the Glazers are making of the sale/investment.

I swear they didn't expect Qatar to pull out and are now crapping themselves that they have to sort this mess.
 
The manager should not be setting the style this is the same trap we keep falling in to managers cannot have that much power and control at a club it doesn't exist at other top clubs. Even Pep and Klopp fit into a structure that is set by the owners to a degree both clubs found the perfect fit for what they want to do as a club but the whole club strategy is not dictated by those managers.

The club should be setting the style and every manager we appoint and player we sign fits into that style. Yes the manager can add a bit of his own interpretation to it but the core principles need to be set by the club.
 
It doesn't matter who sets it, it's the managers duty to get it accross to the whole squad is the point I'm making.

I'm sure you knew the point I was trying to make, because I bang on here all the time we shouldnt have not bought players that ETH wanted.
 
The point is he's having to adapt his style to suit the players he has because the squad isn't built for his style, they said when he came in they needed to rebuild and to me that will be a series of ups and down while we make the changes to the squad.. With the exception of Casemiro all the players seem to be young technical players. The doubt I have is have they actually got the quality to play that type of football in this league.

He's got two slow "traditional" centre backs at the moment who don't want to be on the ball close to their own goal so he's having to play deeper and kick longer from the keeper and play for second balls, I don't think that is what he wants to do.

The same thing happened last season when he realised you can't ask these players to take risks at the back as they make to many mistakes and don't progress the ball forward. Same happened when Ole asked these players to do that so I think we've now got enough evidence to say there are players in this squad that can't do it so the manager can't ask them to keep doing it.

The attack is just a mess they don't work together to score goals. Hojlund wants to run behind but so does Rashford and Anthony is offering nothing so currently there's a front 3 who aren't working together to score goals. Bruno doesn't really seem to have developed an understanding with either Hojlund or Anthony yet so there's another break in the chain that he needs to fix.

I don't think either winger has developed an understanding with his full back on how to work together to create chances. The quality of delivery from full back on either side has been awful all season.

The front 4 to me are all players who are individual talents they all play off the cuff stuff there's no working together to create chances for each other.

What would be helpful is him actually having a settled starting XI that he can play for a few games and also some midweeks off to coach the team in what he wants them to do. The problem is this is Utd he's dealing with new injuries every game and as we're in europe he's not going to get the time to coach the players between games.
 
It's still down to him, if the team doesn't know what it should be doing, if the LB doesn't know what the LW is doing. It's on him

You don't bring in a manager and accept absolutely no playing style, attack or goals for 18 months.

He also shouldn't need a settled 11. Thw whole squad should know what to do. Pep brings on another player, or plays 9 different players, they all know what they should be doing. Stones can play couple of positions now. They can mostly swap and change positions. Because they know the the system.

He needs to come in and get the best out of what he's got.

Also he's spent nearly 500m.

At the wekend the only players he bought in that were not available were Malacia and Martinez. Newcastle have awful injuries, yet have over twice as many goals as us.
 
It is down to him to fix but it doesn't mean he is responsible for it, he's got half a squad that plays one way and half a squad that plays another way. So when players get injured or he has to make changes to rest players he's bringing in players that can't do the job he needs them to do so he's got to adapt as he needs to get results.

The whole thing shouldn't be built that way when you change a tyre on an car you don't then need to adjust the engine or change the breaks. You whip the tyre off put on a fresh one and away you go. The top sides are built like machines there's a replacement part sitting in the garage ready to come on if the part on the pitch breaks.

Utd haven't had that sort of structure and continuity in a decade so now every time we try to change it we are bringing in something totally different to what we already have on the pitch.

For 3 years before Pep came in City built a squad capable of playing the Pep way so IF he came they already had a squad capable of playing his style and then he's kept adding to it year on year so that every player in that squad can play his style which is also the Man City style. Pep also tweaks it like all top managers do to keep up with the times like Fergie did. That City squad is way more powerful than it was when he built his first side.

Malacia, Martinez and Casemiro all missed the Fulham game, that is two of his starting XI. He also fielded a team that was missing up to 5 of his starters should everyone be fit.

If you can't cut a manager a bit of slack for having half his team injured for the first half of the season then he's got no chance. It is crap and it needs to get better but he deserves a chance to get to the end of the season then judge it.
 
Newcastle were a mess 18 months ago. Howe has them playing a system they all know.
 
Mr C said:
Newcastle were a mess 18 months ago. Howe has them playing a system they all know.
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Howe took over Newcastle 2 years ago almost to the day in that time the club have bought in something like 16 players and cleared out a similar number. He also came in at the same time as Dan Ashworth who as director of football started to totally rebuild the squad.

He has overhauled the playing squad utilising players who were there that have adapted but moving on those who didn't fit in. Take Saint-Maximan as an example popular with the fans but couldn't adapt to the new way of playing so he was gone, same for Chris Wood signed as a short term fix for the first 6 months but it didn't really work and he's now gone.

So yes Newcastle are a great example of how with a smart director of football and rich owners looking to invest you can quickly overhaul your squad.

They are also riding the wave of the Post-Ashley era where their stadium is bouncing almost every week and everyone is buzzing about the future.

It took Arsenal 3 and 1/2 seasons under Arteta before they'd sorted out the squad and were ready to move forward and at plenty of times there were looking like it would never change. When you have a squad of over paid players that you've spunked big transfer fees on you are pretty much stuck with them until the contracts expire.

To me the club need to be looking at how Arsenal got themselves out of this hole rather than how Newcastle have done it as we don't have Saudi money to fix our problems.
 
With both arsenal and Newcastle you could see what the manager was trying to do.

It's nothing to do with money. I would imagine ETH had spent more than Howe.

We disagree, you clearly think he's doing a job. I think we play awful football with no given system.

I think Howe has done an excellent job at Newcastle, starting from a much lower base

edit, I just looked, it didn't take Arteta 3.5 years at all.

He joined dec 2019
2020-2021 First full season finished 8th scoring 55
2021-2022 5th scoring 61
2022-2023 2nd scoring 88

so it's an improvement every season, you could argue it took 2.5 years to get to the top.

ETH is over a year, looks further away and years off competing, and his most of his signings look like they need replacing.
 
You could not see where Arsenal were going for the first 2.5 seasons fans were in uproar over the stagnation at the club pretty much every one of them wanted Arteta sacked but the club stuck by him and then last season it all came together. He was working closely with Edu to totally rebuild their squad but because of FFP they couldn't just spunk loads of cash they had to wait for players to leave before spending. They basically wrote off 18 months before they even started building the new team.

19/20 56 points in 8th won the FA Cup
20/21 61 points in 8th
21/22 69 points in 5th
22/23 84 points in 2nd
23/24 - we will see at their current pace they'll match last seasons total.

So we're splitting hairs it took him 2.5 years and 2 8th place finishes before getting them to 5th then on to 2nd. If you look at the squad that they had for the cup final in the 19/20 season only 4 players from 20 remain at the club all the rest are now gone.

Looking back with the benefit of hindsight you can see what the plan was the club had to wait for big earners to leave before spending money to replace them.

What Howe has done is unbelievable it defies logic but we don't get know if they can sustain it will they drop back this season.

As for ETH I don't think he's doing an amazing job there's loads that needs to improve I just don't think sacking him solves the problems best to let it ride out and give it more time.
 
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He'll serve a touchline ban vs Everton having picked up 3 yellow cards for his behaviour on the touchline.
 

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