England World Cup Squad Build Up

jsp

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Think there's some growing headaches for Southgate with his squad as number of his players aren't getting much playing time.

Walker, Stone, Maguire and Shaw are all out of form at the moment. Maguire and Shaw have found themselves on the bench and if it wasn't for injuries at City Stones wouldn't be playing either. Mason Mount is also in poor form for Chelsea.

Kalvin Phillips, Emile Smith-Rowe and Jack Grealish aren't getting on the pitch very often either at City although I think Grealish has had some early season injury problems.

Think on the more positive side of things Sterling has made a good start at Chelsea, Trippier is still ticking along at Newcastle, Chilwell is fit again for Chelsea and Rashford/Sancho both seem in much better form. England have 4 keepers who all look to be in form as well in Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope and Henderson.

Ivan Toney must be knocking on the door as well to jump ahead of players like Watkins and DCL for one of the forward positions. It looks pretty nailed on that it'll be Kane and Abraham the only doubt would be will he take a 3rd specialist centre forward or will he look to take 2 so he can take an extra midfield player/number 10.

I know Southgate likes to stick with what he knows for England but at the moment his trusted defenders are making it pretty hard to select them.
 

Mr C

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he told Maguire not to worry and he's in by all accounts. Which goes against his previous statements about must be playing.
 

jsp

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I think international form has to be a factor in selecting his squad playing well for your club team shouldn't mean you suddenly start playing for the national team as you need to fit into that side as well. It's why he's never dropped Pickford even during dodgy spells for his club. Some players just deliver at international level but not club level look at Podolski and Klose with Germany.

I think the defenders will go as there aren't many pushing for their spots but he must be worried about their form and confidence it may well be that away from their clubs they rediscover the international form. The only one who might push to get a starting spot is Tomori from AC Milan Southgate went over to watch him at the weekend. He's the one I think might be able to get in I don't massively rate Coady and Mings isn't good. Ben White has lost his spot at centre back but he's another who could make a claim.

Think the 4 centre mids are pretty nailed on bar injury it'll be Rice/Henderson/Phillips/Bellingham I can't see any others getting in there maybe Ward-Prowse who's had a good start to the season but he'd be an outside bet.

The bigger questions I think are in the attacking spots for me Grealish is under big pressure if Rashford/Sancho maintain their early season form. He's a very popular player but he's not really done much with England yet and the competition in his position is very high.

Saka, Sancho, Rashford, Foden, Mount, Grealish, Smith-Rowe, Bowen and even an outsider like Eze now he's fit again could lay down a claim for those attacking midfield/wide spots. The only absolute certainty for those spots is Sterling if he's fit he's going and rightly so.
 

Mr C

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I think international form has to be a factor in selecting his squad playing well for your club team
I don't know why you mentioned this, I wasn't offering an opinion. I was saying if he plays Maguire, he goes back on what he said - I can't pick players who are not playing at club level.
 

IDFD

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I don't know why you mentioned this, I wasn't offering an opinion. I was saying if he plays Maguire, he goes back on what he said - I can't pick players who are not playing at club level.

Didn't he do this at the Euros anyway with Henderson coming back in having not played for months and Sterling and Stones struggling for minutes with City at the time?

I hope he moves away from Mount.

If he doesn't play Stones and Maguire whose he going with Coady and Ming's? Haha.

I think he's got to find a way to work TAA in to his side. The guy is too good to continue to leave out.
 

Mr C

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the squad isn't looking hot at the moment, Maguire Philips, Shaw all not really playing. There's probably more
 

IDFD

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One of the reasons I was surprised by Phillips move to city. Surely he knew that he wasn't going to start and was putting his world cup place at risk.
 

jsp

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I don't know why you mentioned this, I wasn't offering an opinion. I was saying if he plays Maguire, he goes back on what he said - I can't pick players who are not playing at club level.

I think he said that a very long time ago every international manager says it but very few enforce it because if you've got guys you trust who do certain jobs for you then you have to pick them regardless of what the club situation is.
 

jsp

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Didn't he do this at the Euros anyway with Henderson coming back in having not played for months and Sterling and Stones struggling for minutes with City at the time?

I hope he moves away from Mount.

If he doesn't play Stones and Maguire whose he going with Coady and Ming's? Haha.

I think he's got to find a way to work TAA in to his side. The guy is too good to continue to leave out.

I think he has to leave TAA out because we can't play like Liverpool do and allow him to be a right winger defensively for England he's a big issue. I'd have him in the squad but for me he'd be a guy to come on when we are chasing the game and looking for a goal to give us that quality delivery into the box.

If he plays the 3-5-2 system then TAA/James could scrap for the right wing back spot but I'd say James looks more comfortable.

Also, depends who England play wide because our wide players don't look to score from crosses so it only really gives TAA one option to hit which is Kane.

I think to fit TAA in you have to go 4-3-3 and I just can't see us doing that.
 

Mr C

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Looks like if you're a united player, you get picked for England if you don't get get picked for united.

Shaw and Maguire in, Sancho and Rashford out
 

jsp

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That defence looks very ropey I can’t believe we are back to Eric Dier is Ben White injured?

Opportunity for the reserve keepers to stake a claim with Pickford’s injury.

Great opportunity for Toney if he can make an impression here he’s got a chance of going to the World Cup which for a lad who started in league two got a move to Newcastle and had to drop back down to league one to get a chance again is a great story.

Very surprised to see Bowen ahead of Sancho and no idea why Grealish is still in he’s been crap for City and England since the euros.
 

SuperRash

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Southgate was always hot on you have to be in form to get into the side - granted some guys have got some points in the locker like Maguire and Shaw. But guys like Grealish, Saka and Bowen on current form shouldn’t be in the squad. Was very surprised Sancho didn’t get in.
 

jsp

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Southgate was always hot on you have to be in form to get into the side - granted some guys have got some points in the locker like Maguire and Shaw. But guys like Grealish, Saka and Bowen on current form shouldn’t be in the squad. Was very surprised Sancho didn’t get in.

He‘s very loyal to the guys who’ve performed for him with those lads club form doesn’t seem to count they’ll always be picked which I think is right international form has to count for something.

Sancho is a funny one because he’s had plenty of chances for England and he’s yet to really shine.

The one I think England need back at his best is Rashford that direct running power he gives going beyond Kane is something England have lacked since his loss of form.
 

Mr C

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it's a ridiculous squad

Maguire, Shaw, Philips not playing, TAA, Grealish, Mount well off form, Saka and Sterling not exactly doing great.

How can Sancho not get in above those?

This team is going from possible contenders to no chance. How can you pick players not playing and so off form.
 

jsp

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Harsh to put Sterling in that list he's had a good start at Chelsea.

Saka has also had an ok start to the season.

I think the managers logic is these players will perform with England so what they do with the club sides really doesn't bother him.

I guess we'll see if that logic works in these two matches as they're two tough games and England who haven't look great since the euros last summer need to put in good performances.

I personally don't think Sancho has a chance just don't think Southgate likes him as a player but if Rashford can maintain current form I think he'll end up making the squad.
 

Mr C

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I don't see how you pick players who aren't playing or are in bad form. What does that say to the other players.

He said he would players on club form.
 

jsp

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People can get hung up on what he said about playing but you judge him by his actions he tries to pick a settled squad and when your club form follows you to the international camp you end up getting dropped. That is what happened to Rashford at the euros and it's why since then he's been out.

He's 6 months out from a world cup possibly the end of the road for some of this generation of players he isn't going to suddenly try a load of new things in his last 2 warm up matches before the tournament.

Club football is different to international football the job you are doing at club football and excelling in might not fit what Southgate is doing in the national team for example. I think you should sustain your club form for a long period before you get a chance like Bowen and Toney have done.

I can't really think of stand out names who've missed out on that squad Sancho is a little unlucky and Rashford has an injury. He knows both of those lads and what they can do but Bowen has only had 1 squad so he might want to see a bit more of him.

Shaw/Maguire are very lucky that there just aren't a lot of players putting their spots under pressure because both have been poor for their club side since the euros and their England form has dipped as well.
 

Mr C

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I don't see how players who are not playing can be deemed good enough to play for their country.

How can you judge them, can they make 90 mins?

Maguire, Shaw and Philips should not be in that squad. If they're still not playing by Dec, is he going to take them? The others I guess are just down to opinion, but there are lot of players in that squad not doing it for their teams at the moment
 

IDFD

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Whose he supposed to pick instead of Maguire and Shaw?

Can moan about it all you want but there isn't anyone out there that's actually performing. Chilwell also isn't getting in the Chelsea side. Stones doesn't get in the City side.

Are we really going to play

James Coady Mings Cresswell?

If they're playing or not Southgate knows the players he's picked well and what they offer him. He's been picking them for years. Not 4 random strangers he's picked off the street.

We aren't exactly blessed with options.

It's amusing people say there isn't an agenda against Maguire. Then today all everyone is on about in the media is Maguire making the squad and ignoring Chilwell Phillips and Grealish making it. And let's not mention Mason Mount and his form or lack thereof.
 

jsp

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Well the players who aren't playing in most cases have loads of England caps across many years so he obviously knows the players and what they can do.

In an ideal world he'd want all his players in their club sides and in form but as the England manager he can't really control that he needs to judge these players on how they perform for him. Can they come into the team and perform for him when he needs them to.

Southgate will judge them by how they play for England and how sharp they look in the training if these lads who aren't playing look miles off the pace he might have a judgement call to make on some of them but the clubs with European games have 9 games in October so everyone will have to use the squad.

If he spots that Shaw, Maguire, Phillips and Grealish are all struggling in these two games he might have a word with them and tell them look if you don't start playing regularly your spot at the world cup is at risk. There's 28 in this squad only 23 go to the world cup so there's 5 out of this lot who will be cut from the final group.

This is a world cup like no other there's no training camp or warm up matches he gets the players for a week before the tournament so he's not going to take a risk he'll stick with what he knows and probably look to use the group stage matches almost like warm up games.
 

IDFD

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i've mentioned all of those, apart from Chilwell

I said the media tbf. I say there's a narrative that surrounds him in the media and on social media that means he gets unfairly targeted by United fans who buy in to everything the media say.
 

jsp

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Kalvin Phillips is out with a shoulder problem replaced by Jordan Henderson.

Phillips shoulder issue is what's been keeping him out of the City side think he's gone for shoulder surgery which will hopefully solve the issue longer term for him.
 

jsp

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Pope not doing his chances of going to the World Cup much good his ability with the ball at his feet is really poor.

I do think England need Rashford back at his best they miss the direct option he gives the team.
 

jsp

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1-0 Italy

Really poor again tonight James, Walker, Saka and Foden especially.

As it stands we will be relegated to level B
 

SuperRash

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Saka at left wing back when he’s been playing right wing for Arsenal was bizarre. The whole team just look absolutely toothless

Based on our last few displays, we’ve got no chance at the WC.
 

jsp

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Saka at left wing back when he’s been playing right wing for Arsenal was bizarre. The whole team just look absolutely toothless

Based on our last few displays, we’ve got no chance at the WC.

Chilwell injured and Shaw out of form I can see why he tried it but hopefully it’s something he accepts doesn’t work. England really need both Chilwell and Shaw to get their form before the summer.

Tonight just showed to me how important Pickford and Stones are.

Next game I think he has to start Ramsdale see how he does.

Walker I think has had some very dodgy games recently I know he’s the safety net with his pace but very sloppy.

We look very average but world cups are about momentum things can change quickly in tournament football.
 

IDFD

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I think the pressing questions are:

Is Southgate in danger of being sacked?

Should Kane be dropped?
 

jsp

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I think the pressing questions are:

Is Southgate in danger of being sacked?

Should Kane be dropped?

I‘d say the answer to both is no at the moment.

I do think the World Cup might be the end of the road for Southgate no matter what happens feels like time for a change.

Who do we play instead of Kane? Abraham hasn’t started the season well, Toney is untested, DCL has disappeared, Watkins not good enough, Wilson injured to often.
 

SuperRash

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Chilwell injured and Shaw out of form I can see why he tried it but hopefully it’s something he accepts doesn’t work. England really need both Chilwell and Shaw to get their form before the summer.

Tonight just showed to me how important Pickford and Stones are.

Next game I think he has to start Ramsdale see how he does.

Walker I think has had some very dodgy games recently I know he’s the safety net with his pace but very sloppy.

We look very average but world cups are about momentum things can change quickly in tournament football.
Yeah I guess I can see why he tried it with not many other options, however we are lacking some real bite in the attacking areas so Saka could of given us a little something extra further forward.

Like jsp said I think Southgate will go regardless of what happens at the WC. He has points in the bank so won’t go beforehand but I do think the WC will be the end of the road. Need to bring in someone with fresh ideas.

Kane won’t be dropped even if we think he should be at times. And there isn’t a whole lot of options below him. We do really miss Rashford’s direct play - when he’s in form.
 

IDFD

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England haven't scored from open play in 5 matches. 7 and a half hours.
 

Mr C

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Can't see Southgate lasting beyond the WC. Chelsea might need another new manager :p
 

jsp

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My guess is Rodgers will be the next guy.

He isn’t going any higher in the club game and I think this will be the last season at Leicester.
 

jsp

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TAA not included in the squad for tonight's game against Germany confirmed it isn't injury related, Southgate really doesn't fancy him.

Tomori, Bowen and Ward-Prowse also miss out from the 23 for tonight. Dier did ok against Italy but on the ball he's nowhere near good enough surprised he hasn't given Tomori a chance but must be something he's seeing in training that he doesn't like.

Grealish is suspended but Stones is back from his ban.

Toney is included in the 23 man squad.
 

jsp

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0-1 Germany

Gundogan penalty

Maguire with a sloppy pass straight to Musiala he then fouled him as he dribbled past him, he will be gutted as up until that point in both games he’d done pretty well but he was punished ruthlessly.

Musiala is some player.
 

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