Podolski has always had that in his locker, you don't see him for an hour but then he just unleashes a thunderbolt.

Not sure if we're gonna salvage a draw from this one but Lingard and Rashford do look lively. Although Alli has clearly been our best player and with him off the pitch it's gonna be tough.
 
Gutted that Alli went off the pitch soon after Rashford came on. With Kane out I thought Rashford should have started too, should be looking at more long term options when the first choice is missing, especially in friendlies regardless of the opposition.
 
Defoe starts vs Lithuania probably the right call but he's hardly in great form but this isn't a game for Vardy and Rashford may be a more useful option off the bench.
 
2-0 Vardy nicely worked goal

Not great performance by England not much creativity from the midfielders but Lallana & Sterling playing well Alli struggling to make anything happen.

Would like to see Barkley come on for Alli
 
Such a boring game, which most of these games against the minnows are. This standard of international football is uninspiring!

I think Keane has been the standout over the last two games, think he has a future at this level for sure. Alli and Lallana are definitely our two most creative players and will definitely be the first names on the team sheet. Was glad to see Defoe grab a goal, I think he has been criminally underused over the years, he should be at more than 56 caps for sure. Guessing he may get squeezed out once Kane and Sturridge are fit. Although I think I would have him ahead of Vardy and Sturridge to be honest.
 
Think the main problem with international football is the weaker sides all setup very defensively they don't really try to come out which makes them a grind for the top sides as you get very few games that flow end to end you basically spend most of the game camped in their half just making sure you don't get done on the counter attack.

I think England really lacked a creative player in the midfield yesterday Oxlade-Chamberlain didn't really run the game which is what he should've been doing in his position most of the creativity came from Lallana who was excellant and a few flashes from Sterling. One thing about Sterling for a guy as talented as him he doesn't half miss a lot of tap ins. That deeper playmaker position is one England haven't really found a solution to since Wilshere got injured Henderson has shown glimpses in there recently and is probably the logical solution but there's no one really to compete with him for it.

Thing with Defoe is while he has been out for a long time there have been others in scoring goals in that period it's not like he wasn't picked out of spite he went off to play in America and that lost him his place in the squad in that time others like Rooney, Welbeck, Carroll, Vardy, Kane, Sturridge, Rashford etc have all come in and out. Defoe did what Defoe does give him a chance and he'll put it away but he wasn't really involved in the game at all apart from that.

Was a shame that Barkley didn't get any playing time I thought it would've been good for him to get the last 10-15 minutes last night guess Southgate didn't want to use his last sub just for the sake of it in case someone got an injury.
 
Yeah really surprised Barkley didn't get any minutes, he has been in probably the best period of his career with Everton. Germany was the game for him to get some minutes. Really hope he can keep up his form for Everton, he has always been a 'flatter to deceive' type of player. However, he does have the raw ingredients to be a top player.

Yeah I see your point jsp about the weaker sides and to be honest it's not surprising and it'll always make for poor games. San Marino aren't gonna come to Wembley and do anything but defend because of their limited players. I do think that the smaller nations should have their own mini qualifying section and then the top performers of that should be put into the main qualifying section. Not easy to implement but would limit these dead games with no action.
 
There is a difference between San Marino who are basically amatuers and Lithuania who are at least all full time professionals the thing is now in the modern game if you are technically inferior the easiest thing to do is just defend in numbers as you can't just hack people anymore so I think the rule changes have encouraged the weaker nations to become more defensive because otherwise they risk getting thumped. England sort of suffer from their own good fortune they somehow cling on to this top seed ranking when the groups are drawn despite flopping at tournaments and they've been lucky in draws to avoid big nations in pots 2 & 3. I mean last time we had serious nations in our qualifying group was 2008 when we had Croatia & Russia and we ended up 3rd since then we've had pretty easy routes through qualifying. I don't really know what the solution to it all is you can't just give the big nations a bye to the finals so you kind of just have to get through this grind of qualification. I do wonder if there would be some merit to having a "weak team group" and the team that comes off gets a playoff game to qualify at least this would give the smaller nations a chance of qualifying but also allows them to learn to play attacking football against each other.

I think Barkley's problem is going to be getting the guys ahead of him out of the team because Sterling, Alli & Lallana are all playing well at the moment and I don't think we can really play Barkley as well as those 3 and a striker which will be Kane. The fact Alli & Kane play so well together at club level makes it hard for Barkley to get in but I think he deserves a chance in the next game at some point.
 
International breaks are here..... yaaaaaaaaaay

Anyway what do we think the line up will be tonight? He's already confirmed Hart will start the game.

Hart

Walker Stones Cahill Bertrand

Dier Henderson

Sterling Alli Rashford

Kane

That's my guess assuming England aren't still d*cking about with the 3-4-3 it's an ok team front 4 is good but the midfield lacks creativity and the centre backs are what they are but should be enough to handle Malta.

To be honest apart from Rose for Bertrand when he's fit that's probably the starting XI for the world cup maybe Lallana would come in for Sterling.

If the team was picked on merit then Jones & Keane would be centre backs and Dier wouldn't be in midfield but I can't see him changing his team he seems happy with Cahill & Stones for now and we've got no one in midfield.

At least with that XI everyone is in their actual position.
 
Think he will save that side for the next match. Surely we are more likely to see Livermore, Kane, Maguire and Vardy?

What's this all about Henderson being captain? So embarrassing. That's how far off it we are as a country
 
England: Hart, Jones, Bertrand, Walker, Cahill, Sterling, Livermore, Alli, Henderson, Kane, Oxlade-Chamberlain.
 
Standard team.

Hart shouldn't be starting, Butland should be in. Not sure what Livermore is doing there, this was a perfect opportunity to start Chalobah. Also for a pure United stand point I'm disappointed Rashford isn't starting but Jones deserves a start for sure.
 
How awful was that half of football?
England are a tedious team to watch for sure. I've got no passion for watching them these days. 4-0 was good in the end though, the gloss added with three late goals.
 
I think from a neutral point of view it is difficult for any team to go out and try to break down that sort of defence. Malta set out to frustrate, and for 45 minutes frustrate they did. Now all you England d fans will be crowing about how England should be able to break them down or pick the lock. Tell me what player England possess that does that for his premier league team? I think Ince was a bit disingenuous about Malta saying Spain or Germany would stick many past them. I didn't see that tonight. Yes Germany have Kroos who would definitely it Ely have moved the ball faster and smarter but against at least 10 behind the ball it is still difficult. So I think the 4 was a good result, was it flattering? No. Why England dominated and tired out a team then punished their lack of fitness/professionalism in the last 10. That is what England will have to do in near every match in their qualifying campaign. No-one comes out to play England, if they did there might be more early goals, but there is no guarantee they'd be for England!
 
I think from a neutral point of view it is difficult for any team to go out and try to break down that sort of defence. Malta set out to frustrate, and for 45 minutes frustrate they did. Now all you England d fans will be crowing about how England should be able to break them down or pick the lock. Tell me what player England possess that does that for his premier league team? I think Ince was a bit disingenuous about Malta saying Spain or Germany would stick many past them. I didn't see that tonight. Yes Germany have Kroos who would definitely it Ely have moved the ball faster and smarter but against at least 10 behind the ball it is still difficult. So I think the 4 was a good result, was it flattering? No. Why England dominated and tired out a team then punished their lack of fitness/professionalism in the last 10. That is what England will have to do in near every match in their qualifying campaign. No-one comes out to play England, if they did there might be more early goals, but there is no guarantee they'd be for England!


The biggest problem for me is why we only started 1 striker last night? And Played 2 holding midfielders, why? Southgate went way too negative for Malta away.

As for opening up defences again with all due respect that wasn't a top defence to open. There's WBA sitting back and saying beat us. Then there's Malta. The centre half owns a coffee shop on the island. His making toasted paninis and lattes today! Anyone of those players should have been able to open that side up. You don't need a Toni Kroos for Malta.

In the end it was Rashford showing his pace and football brain to stay out wide that made the difference. It's a similar problem to United where we have a lot of players coming inside and no one really hugging that touchline and making the pitch big. Everyone was too crowded and playing on top of each other.

I do think moving forward Southgate needs to drop this 4-3-3 thing we just aren't comfortable in that in my opinion. Dele Alli needs to be playing as a 10 so his closer to Kane. Sterling showed that he isn't good enough to be playing for Malta let alone England, so he needs to be replaced with Rashford. Livermore and Henderson together is too defensive. There's still a lot work to be done before the World Cup and is Southgate tactically good enough to mix it with the big nations? For me no.
 
I think you need to look at what Southgate is trying to do with the whole team. I agree you need to set out a different style per opponent but he's only really been manager for what 4 or 5 games? I think you need to accept he has to get his standard system ingrained first, without that he's confusing his players more!
 
We don't need Livermore in a game like that we need a playmaker in their with Henderson but we just don't have a player like that.

Think he got his attack wrong, Sterling never plays on the left for a good reason he's no good there & what has Ox done this season to get a start? It's got to be Sterling right then Welbz/Rashford on the left.

These games are tough to get the initial break through but they got the job done but we all know as soon as we go up vs a top side we will lose because we get found out tactically.
 
Sterling was dreadful last night, I know it's United tinted spectacles but Rashford would have been a better bet. Also never known such a limited ability England captain, I really don't rate Henderson, some of his long ball play and balls into the box are aimless. Shame we don't have any really talent beyond him.

Who knows why Livermore was playing and like jsp said no idea why Ox was deemed a worthy starter.

Really hope the promise of the England youth teams comes to fruition because right now we're never coming close to a major tournament success.
 
Livermore is playing because there's no one else ahead of him.

He's a pretty average centre mid but not sure there's an obvious guy who's better unless we put someone out of position like Alli or Ox in there.

I'd rather have Livermore in there than Dier because he is better with the ball.

I think when Lallana is fit again we could play a 3 with him, Henderson & Alli but that means Alli playing out of position as he like that role he has just off Kane and they've got a good understanding.
 
3 words James Ward Prowse.

He's a 22 year old who's played 30 odd times for our England under 21s. His more creative then Livermore by a long shot and his got an excellent set piece delivery. Southgate knows this. His been his manager at the under 21's. His been involved in all 3 of the premier league matches this season for Southampton. He was fantastic in the side that reached the euro semi finals this summer. I'd rather watch him then Livermore! At least give him a shot against bloody Malta. Oh wait he didn't even call him up! Let's just keep playing the Ox and Livermore and people who we know are flops.
 
I think Ward-Prowse can easily play his way in with a good run of form, he's a player I've heard a lot about but not really seen much of as I rarely watch saints play.

We desperately need a playmaker who can sit in the midfield in these easier games and dictate the play to pull the defence apart and create the gaps for the attacking players to exploit.
 
Southgate confirms Hart to start in goal tonight.

I mean what is the point in calling up the reserves if they never play I could totally understand if we had Neuer as the number 1 but we don't we have a goalkeeper who's out of form and struggling I get playing Hart tonight in the tougher game but surely Butland could've played in the game on Friday?

In terms of the rest of the team I'm guessing it'll be

Hart

Walker Jones Cahill Betrand

Dier Henderson

Sterling Alli Rashford

Kane

It's a toss up between Stering/Oxlade-Chamberlain on the right but I'd probably start with Sterling as I think there will be a little bit more space tonight for him to exploit as Slovakia need to come for a win. If Slovakia open up a bit it will be a real test of how good this team actually is we saw at the Euro's how they can struggle in these sort of games.

England should have enough to get the job done but still don't like this midfield big responsibility on Henderson to dictate the game but in a different way to what he does at Liverpool and I think Alli needs to start giving us more end product in an England shirt.
 
I just wanted to say in here that 4-0 against Malta, looks a good result now as a neutral compared to France 0-0 against Luxembourg, no. They defo have better players against weaker defences so the 'not WBA' holds no water for me. As a neutral fed up with the moaning that 'world beaters' are not getting cricket scores against 'minnows', there are few minnows in international football now, as so proved in the last 4 days.
 
I didn't watch the France game so don't know why they failed to win but the smaller nations now are much better drilled defensively than they used to be, somewhere along the line someone taught these countries how to defend deep in numbers and frustrate the opposition and no matter how good you are in there's no space to get through and no one makes a mistake it is very hard to score a goal.

The issue with this is it obviously does make the games quite dull and boring to watch and it's hard to see where the next step is for them at what point do they try to attack and win games, as they only know how to play one way. When they come up against other similar sized nations can they suddenly flip to play attacking football? However, there's no real alternative to the qualifying system as it is so just get on with it luckily for England despite being a B grade team we got a very kind group as normal, if we had a proper nation in with us like Spain, Italy, Germany. Portugal or France we'd probably be heading into a playoff.

The cricket score still exists Belguim smashed 9 past Gibralter but they were clearly on it that night and decided to run up the score on a team that's only been playing a few years. I think Belgium may be helped that they've had a pretty settled side for a few years now so these guys are used to playing together so it maybe clicks a bit quicker for them when they meet up. England historically make a lot of changes as the "form guy" has to be in the team whereas we'd probably be better off trying to play the same guys all the way through to get some understanding going on the pitch.
 
ust wanted to say in here that 4-0 against Malta, looks a good result now as a neutral compared to France 0-0 against Luxembourg, no. They defo have better players against weaker defences so the 'not WBA' holds no water for me. As a neutral fed up with the moaning that 'world beaters' are not getting cricket scores against 'minnows', there are few minnows in international football now, as so proved in the last 4 days.


Fair play to Luxembourg it's a massive result for them. I mean if you really wanna get extra picky you could argue that Luxembourg have more pro footballers and are ranked higher then Malta as a nation anyway. They've got more players playing in higher leagues then the Maltese lads. But it's still a massive shock.

The overall point being I think England should be more then 1 nil up against a semi pro national side after 86 minutes. Just my opinion. Respect that you as a neutral may not feel that way.

JSP makes a point that if we were in a group with a 'big' side we'd be struggling to qualify as winners. I have to agree with him based on everything I've seen from the nation side over the past few years. Sticking with the French they battered the Dutch on Friday night 4-0 and right now we wouldn't have done that. 1 results doesn't make anyone a 'world beater' just as 1 result doesn't make you rubbish but the French are in a much better place then us despite them dropping points last night.

I'd like us to do something radical. Thoughts on this.... keep open minded. Ok why not Target a specific tournament in the future like say Qatar 2022? Get a young group of lads and a solid squad and play them regularly from now until them. Forget Russia and the next Euros they can be learning curves whatever we do in those tournaments are bonus. Just spend the next 5 years aiming to win the Qatar World Cup. Our side would have tournament experience, know how each other play and have such a good understanding of each other's games if the same people made that squad as often as possible.

The Harts, the Smallings, The Walcotts, all wouldn't be involved it would be a young side based around Rashford. Use some of our successful youth sides players and build something new. You want all your best English players to play at the top level sure but it's not working and it never will. At united we gave Beckham, Scholes, The Neville's and countless more the biggest stage ever to perform on and we still couldn't get it together at a World Cup. And it's twice as hard to be English and playing regular nowadays. It's radical and your gonna laugh. But I think people would tune in and support a young energetic long term side more then a side being lead out by Jordan Henderson in my opinion.
 
Butland, Pickford, Shaw, Chigwell, Stones, Holding, Holgate, Keane, Alexander-Arnold, Davis, Alli, Sterling, Ward-Prowse, Chalobah, Gray, Redmond, Calvert- Lewis, Rashford, Abraham, Kane.

That's my starter squad based on what I've said above. Others will be needed and others can fill in but as many as these players as often as possible.
 
Will never happen when the FA are beholden to sponsors. They've not paid Wembley off so the likes of Vauxhall expect the 'big' guys on the pitch for their corporate box. They'd swiftly pull that deal should the likes of Hart and Chilli be dropped for Butland and Mason Holgate, as those lads don't have the profile!
 
While in theory it would be nice to blood the youngsters in preparation for the Qatar WC in 2022, if we threw all the youngsters together now then they may struggle to qualify for the major tournaments, although we could still do it. I would blood a few more than we have been but a wholesale squad change isn't what is needed.

Even if we do go full scale youngster mad then to be honest a lot of those players you mentioned Max in the squad eventually won't be good enough and we could be saying again in 5-8 years, oh let's get rid of them and start again because it isnt working.

Oh and Jones not in your squad, BLASPHEMY!!
 
That's true. So then it comes down to just how much we as fans want change. It's been over 50 years since we last won it. We've not made a semi since Italian 90. And right now after what happened against Iceland, we are still miles away from getting back up there with the worlds elite. So we need to change. Maybe not going to Malta and Slovakia at home or arriving late would send a message to the FA? It's hard because I always want England to win but the system we've got in our country isn't working. Hosting the biggest league in the world is strangling our national prospects
 
While in theory it would be nice to blood the youngsters in preparation for the Qatar WC in 2022, if we threw all the youngsters together now then they may struggle to qualify for the major tournaments, although we could still do it. I would blood a few more than we have been but a wholesale squad change isn't what is needed.

Even if we do go full scale youngster mad then to be honest a lot of those players you mentioned Max in the squad eventually won't be good enough and we could be saying again in 5-8 years, oh let's get rid of them and start again because it isnt working.

Oh and Jones not in your squad, BLASPHEMY!!


Haha ok Jones can be involved. The cuts off really 25 so in theory he'd make it.

Failing is part of learning. But the kids would all learn together and grow together this way. The whole points to stop things like Ricky Lambert getting called up like he did before the Euros. Let our youngster take over like I thought Southgate was gonna do but hasn't.
 
I think about 5 years ago Greg Dyke did state publically that our target was to win the world cup in 2022, now you could argue that the recent success at youth level is an indication that by 2022 we might actually have a very competitive side but the problem is what happens with these kids when they get to 18/19 years old. The kids in France/Holland/Germany etc will get chances at clubs in their home country and the best ones will probably end up playing in champions league or europa league game and if they do well they'll get moves to the Premier League. What is really interesting is the English kids (british if you want to include Burke going to Liepzig) are actually going abroad to get better chances.

The biggest thing I see is we are picking from a pool of maybe 50 players at any one time other nations have a pool of 150-200 potential players now most of them aren't good enough but because we have no depth we have no choice but to keep picking the same old faces with a new manager and hoping for different results.

I don't think the rip it up and start again thing is worthwhile but I'm sick of seeing players who've failed going to tournament after tournament. Cahill & Hart are examples they've not performed at 2-3 tournaments now so why do they keep getting picked? It can't be for sponsors as no one is buying a corporate box to watch Gary Cahill & Joe Hart and those boxes sell themselves at Wembley because they're sold for the year and they include all the domestic cup finals and concerts you don't buy them for England games.

I think we need to build a team/squad through qualifying then go to the tournament with it call up new talent for friendlies and if they do really well keep them in but if not they wait until the next tournament. One example from Euro 2016 in qualifying Milner played nearly every game and was England's leading assist maker but Hodgson didn't play him at the tournament. I don't even remember which flavour of the month emerged that saw him dropped but it seemed bonkers to me and I accept Milner is a fairly average footballer but you can see why he retired straight away after.

I still think the decision to rebuild Wembley was a mistake we didn't need a national stadium anymore the club grounds were growing and were good enough to host cup finals as neutral venues plus there was Cardiff and I actually think the team going on the road in qualification for 2002 got people behind the team a lot more because they felt like a national team again. They should've just knocked down Wembley and sold the land to developers and used that money to invest in proper grass root facilities, elite level facilities and coaches but no we have to build this horrible monument to football that everyone hates going to.
 
I'm not saying to rip it up and start again I'd still keep picking Stones, Alli, Kane, Rashford and Kane. But what I'm saying is let's give the youth more of a chance and move on from the members of the side that have gone stale.

If Dyke said that then great. And early indications especially the success of our youth teams this summer do suggest we are moving in the right direction. But we've got to bring through more then 1 or 2 players from the under 21s at a time. We need to be bringing 4/5 players in at a time and starting developing a younger feel to our side. It's the only way the process moves forward. I think it's a joke Ward-prowse and Chalobah have played over 30 times for the under 21s. That's stupid. These two should be getting pushed on. Regardless of their club position because they are obviously regarded as the best players their age nationally for that position.

What has been the point of Southgate calling players up and not playing them at Malta away? Again it shows lack of direction. I generally would limit the number of over 25s entering our side for the next few years and persevere with younger players now. It might not work fine. It might have flaws ok. But the system we have know isn't working. We need a ballsy manager to come in there and move people on and telling the FA where it's at. Southgate is too much of a yes man and someone the FA can control very cheaply.
 

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