Donny Van De Beek l Match Discussion Thread 2021/22

Macariman

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Veron was a slightly different story Fergie wanted to change his style for Europe and go 1 up front as he felt the 4-4-2 was no longer working in Europe he saw we needed more control, this was around the time Queiroz also arrived. Veron became available due to a passport issue in Italy and Utd pounced but he never really gelled with Keane and Scholes found that new advanced role tough as as a 3 I don't think they ever really worked. Always felt like Keane and Veron were two players trying to do 1 mans job both were really good short passers that wanted to be in the middle of that three. That said it did really come together in 2002-03 when we won the title back from Arsenal Keane missed quite a lot of that season with injury and Veron from memory was good that season so it was a bit of a shock that we sold him that summer.

Veron came as a starting player went straight into the side whereas Donny I think from day one was signed as a squad player we never saw him as a starter and key part of the team. Felt to me like they hoped he could be a bit of a utility man but he feels a bit jack of all trades master of none in this side my worry with him is to get the best version of him he needs to be in a specific role which we don't have for him.

Donny made his name as the goal scoring midfielder in the Ajax team he was the most advanced of their 3 always breaking into the box and he was great in tight spaces around the box. This was the most eye catching part of his game yes he could do all the short passing and rotation you do at Ajax but really he was a goal scorer from midfield and that's what caught a lot of clubs attention. De Jong was always the guy in midfield who controlled the game which is why Barca were so desperate for him although I hear he's really struggling this season.

A player who arrived the same summer as Donny but cost a bit more money was Partey I think he'd have been great in our midfield two but I think we dodged a bullet with him as he's injured a lot. Arsenal spent £50m on him but feels to me like he misses about half the games with injuries but when he's fit I think he looks a good player.
Luckily DvdB hasn't suffered any injuries since arriving at OT
 

Macariman

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Seem to remember jsp, him playing sometimes deeper, allowing him and dejong the opportunity to carry forward knowing the other was still covering
Btw was it u who said recently that OGS wouldn't get offered another job in the EPL?
Doubt even Cardiff would have him back!
 

jsp

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Seem to remember jsp, him playing sometimes deeper, allowing him and dejong the opportunity to carry forward knowing the other was still covering
Btw was it u who said recently that OGS wouldn't get offered another job in the EPL?
Doubt even Cardiff would have him back!

It was and I stand by that comment if he was sacked at the end of last season I just don’t see another club hiring him obviously now it would be less likely.

Just think he’s been found out this season and it very much feels like the players no longer believe either.
 

Macariman

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It was and I stand by that comment if he was sacked at the end of last season I just don’t see another club hiring him obviously now it would be less likely.

Just think he’s been found out this season and it very much feels like the players no longer believe either.
Yeah I thought it was yourself, and remember strongly agreeing.
Afraid my dislike and real concern about him being able to manage MUFC came a lot earlier.
Nearing the end of his 1st season in charge the 4-0 thrashing we took at Goodison firmly backed my initial fears. He should never have been there!
 

Mr C

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I dunno, I think he's done a good job behind the scenes, it had been broken up and become a bit disjointed. He has done a lot of very good things.

But his first team management I think has been shown up this season. It's time to hand the batton over to a stronger leg.
 

Macariman

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I dunno, I think he's done a good job behind the scenes, it had been broken up and become a bit disjointed. He has done a lot of very good things.

But his first team management I think has been shown up this season. It's time to hand the batton over to a stronger leg.
1 clean sheet in 21 games. League performances, abysmal. ECL beaten by Young Boys of Berne, scraping thru against Villarreal and last week's fiasco against Atalanta?
Man Utd 0 Liverpool 5 at the Theatre of Dreams
Waken up for christ sake pal?
 

Mr C

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I did say his first team management has been awful. So I agree

But I have to acknowledge the good stuff behind the scenes during his spell.
 

Macariman

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Behind the scenes? He's shown improvement, over his almost 3 years in charge?
Behind the scenes, r to be taken care of by people 'behind the scenes'
A manager's job, and his coaching staff, is to take care of what happens on the feckin pitch, what results and performances he can achieve, how much silverware he can bring home.
This man, who was given 1 of the most prestigious jobs in world football, has provided us with feck all except total disarray and humiliation.
Lord help the guy who takes over the job on Wednesday!!!
 

Mr C

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I think if you can't see any progress since he's been there, then that is a difficult argument to have with someone.

Personally I think the club has a much better feel about it.

However, what we can agree on, the level on the pitch is way off what it should be with that squad of players. I didn't expect a league win with our midfield, but we are way better than mid-low table fodder.

Unfortunately, he won't be gone by Wednesday, in fact even if we lose to City I can't see them sacking him o_O
 

jsp

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Yeah I thought it was yourself, and remember strongly agreeing.
Afraid my dislike and real concern about him being able to manage MUFC came a lot earlier.
Nearing the end of his 1st season in charge the 4-0 thrashing we took at Goodison firmly backed my initial fears. He should never have been there!

I think at that point he was still dealing with a toxic squad of mercenaries that didn’t want to be at the club anymore and he quickly shifted most of these out.

I always had my doubt I understood the logic about cultural reboots and all that but I never saw a top level coach
 

Macariman

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I think if you can't see any progress since he's been there, then that is a difficult argument to have with someone.

Personally I think the club has a much better feel about it.

However, what we can agree on, the level on the pitch is way off what it should be with that squad of players. I didn't expect a league win with our midfield, but we are way better than mid-low table fodder.

Unfortunately, he won't be gone by Wednesday, in fact even if we lose to City I can't see them sacking him o_O
The thought of that really is really concerning
 

Macariman

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I think at that point he was still dealing with a toxic squad of mercenaries that didn’t want to be at the club anymore and he quickly shifted most of these out.

I always had my doubt I understood the logic about cultural reboots and all that but I never saw a top level coach
I've got to argue that point comrade.
At present we have a squad of so many talented and gifted players but I'd bet CR's thinking will be of wishing he never took that call from Fergie.
Cavani will take the 1st exit he can get (and who can blame him)
Varane, sitting watching and wondering, what the hell have I got myself into?
Lingard blasting himself for not doing his utmost to join the Hammers.
DvdB and Sancho will be screaming "I'm a celebrity footballer, get me out of here!"
And a few more besides.
In our present state, in both management and team morale, don't expect too many of the world's finest declaring that it's only MUFC I'll only consider playing for!
 

Justin Cider

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Can't be bothered to look for the Donny vd Beek thread so if you girls and boys don't mind i'll just post in here that if he wants to play more he is allowed to impress enough in training to make it impossible for the Manager to not pick him, thanks, as you were.
 

jsp

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I've got to argue that point comrade.
At present we have a squad of so many talented and gifted players but I'd bet CR's thinking will be of wishing he never took that call from Fergie.
Cavani will take the 1st exit he can get (and who can blame him)
Varane, sitting watching and wondering, what the hell have I got myself into?
Lingard blasting himself for not doing his utmost to join the Hammers.
DvdB and Sancho will be screaming "I'm a celebrity footballer, get me out of here!"
And a few more besides.
In our present state, in both management and team morale, don't expect too many of the world's finest declaring that it's only MUFC I'll only consider playing for!

Yet Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo all came in the summer.

Pay the money they will come but the club needs to do some serious work in January next summer to trim that squad down to a sensible size without losing quality.
 

Cosmic Slop

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Yet Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo all came in the summer.

Pay the money they will come but the club needs to do some serious work in January next summer to trim that squad down to a sensible size without losing quality.
This is the real mystery here. We added those 3 players and are no better than last season. That's almost an impossibility. Granted, Varane is out injured, but we weren't magically transformed when he was in the side. Sancho has offered nothing. Ronaldo has pulled the bacon out of the fire a few times but at what cost? Would we have needed last-gasp winners if our side had been set up (and coached) to be more balanced?
 

Macariman

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Yet Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo all came in the summer.

Pay the money they will come but the club needs to do some serious work in January next summer to trim that squad down to a sensible size without losing quality.
Exactly, it's taken less than 3 months and they'll be of the same mindset, what the feck have I done
 

Justin Cider

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This is the real mystery here. We added those 3 players and are no better than last season. That's almost an impossibility. Granted, Varane is out injured, but we weren't magically transformed when he was in the side. Sancho has offered nothing. Ronaldo has pulled the bacon out of the fire a few times but at what cost? Would we have needed last-gasp winners if our side had been set up (and coached) to be more balanced?

Let's wait until we see them all on the pitch for 90 minutes together a few times before we decide that's the case.
 

RichH2016

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This is the real mystery here. We added those 3 players and are no better than last season. That's almost an impossibility
I was reading an article yesterday on Sky about the use of Sancho and his slow start. And it all made a lot of sense. Sancho is a really good young player but that doesn't mean he could just come in and instantly hit the ground running. You need a style, a system, a structure for him to come in and succeed. United don't have that structure. They don't have that system in place. The whole team lacks direction and balance and that's a big reason (not the only reason) he has struggled.
 

Justin Cider

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I was reading an article yesterday on Sky about the use of Sancho and his slow start. And it all made a lot of sense. Sancho is a really good young player but that doesn't mean he could just come in and instantly hit the ground running. You need a style, a system, a structure for him to come in and succeed. United don't have that structure. They don't have that system in place. The whole team lacks direction and balance and that's a big reason (not the only reason) he has struggled.

Far too much over analysing, some players just take longer to settle in when they first come to England, and more so at United.

Thierry Henry(similar age as Sancho) who tore up the Premier League for 7 or 8 years struggled big style in his first year and there were wags in the press saying Juventus must've have seen Arsenal coming when they paid circa £11m for him after he failed so badly in Italy, there were 7 or 8 French speakers in the squad and obviously a French Manager to help him settle, so did he struggle initially because of a lack of style or structure, did the team lack direction and balance?
 

RichH2016

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Far too much over analysing, some players just take longer to settle in when they first come to England, and more so at United.
I completely disagree. United have no direction and no structure. No player can thrive in that. There's no attacking intent other than to let the flair players do what they want and try to make things happen.

If I ask what style Liverpool play it is easy to answer. City the same. Even Chelsea. Hell Leicester too. But united? No style, no obvious intent. Its a mess.
 

Justin Cider

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I completely disagree. United have no direction and no structure. No player can thrive in that. There's no attacking intent other than to let the flair players do what they want and try to make things happen.

If I ask what style Liverpool play it is easy to answer. City the same. Even Chelsea. Hell Leicester too. But united? No style, no obvious intent. Its a mess.

I thought you might.

It's about getting a balance, between our current freestyle and LvG's if you go into this area of the field I will drop you, and I don't envy Ole having to come up with a system where Ronaldo plays a full part knowing he'll have to change it when he spells Ronaldo because he's a one off - in an ideal world we'd use Ronaldo as a modern day Ole super sub, but you're never gonna get him to agree to that.

I get what you are saying about those having a style but I don't think many United fans would be happy if we played similar to City, Chelsea or Leicester City, Liverpool probably, though not sure United having three dogs of war in midfield would go down well.
 

RichH2016

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I get what you are saying about those having a style but I don't think many United fans would be happy if we played similar to City, Chelsea or Leicester City, Liverpool probably, though not sure United having three dogs of war in midfield would go down well
Then United fans need to get with the times if that's true. Wouldn't be happy if they played like City? Why? They play some of the best football on the planet. Chelsea are pretty entertaining too and Leicester can be.
 

Justin Cider

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Then United fans need to get with the times if that's true. Wouldn't be happy if they played like City? Why? They play some of the best football on the planet. Chelsea are pretty entertaining too and Leicester can be.

City are very similar to Louis van Gaal's keep the ball for the sake of it which didn't go down to well with the vast majority of United fans, Chelsea's first thought is always defence and I doubt anybody including Chelsea fans would record one of their matches to watch later if they weren't playing United, Liverpool or City to watch later if they had to go out, and Leicester City are well drilled but they sit back and play counter-attacking football even at home.

Anyho back to the 'Could Mr Beek be our saviour' thread
 

RichH2016

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City are very similar to Louis van Gaal's keep the ball for the sake of it which didn't go down to well with the vast majority of United fans, Chelsea's first thought is always defence and I doubt anybody including Chelsea fans would record one of their matches to watch later if they weren't playing United, Liverpool or City to watch later if they had to go out, and Leicester City are well drilled but they sit back and play counter-attacking football even at home.

Anyho back to the 'Could Mr Beek be our saviour' thread
Haha you're likening the City style with the LvG style? Deary deary me.
 

SuperRash

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Haha you're likening the City style with the LvG style? Deary deary me.
To be fair the LVG style is very similar to the City style. Perhaps that wasn’t reflected when he was here, as the possession based game didn’t seem to have any structure here (probably not the players to implement either) However, in previous management roles the parallels with the City style is evident.
 

jsp

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The city style is an evolution of the LVG style.

It’s played much quicker and with much more reliance on squeezing up the pitch then pressing/fouling to win the ball back. It is as much about hard work as it is about technique.

City do knock it around for the sake of it when they are winning to physically and mentally drain the opponent then when the gaps appear they pounce. What you often don’t see is when passing it around the players continue to rotate and make runs in behind to offer options to those on the ball the defending team can never rest.
 

Mr C

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I've always hated watching every LVG team

Peps teams are generally ok to watch.

I don't think because they are both posession based makes them similar at all.

Just compare the goals scored.
 

SuperRash

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Was let out of his cage for 5 minutes tonight and contributed more than Pogba did. Close to a winning goal as well.

Pogba may well be a better player but team wise right now VDB is the better option. Pogba’s head has totally gone for me.
 

RVN

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Was let out of his cage for 5 minutes tonight and contributed more than Pogba did. Close to a winning goal as well.

Pogba may well be a better player but team wise right now VDB is the better option. Pogba’s head has totally gone for me.
Agreed, and in all honesty Pogba's head has't been right for a while as reflected by his contract situation and lack of commitment to the club. As I have said before he doesn't deserve a starting place.
 

RichH2016

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Pogba may well be a better player but team wise right now VDB is the
I'm not even sure that's the case to be honest. Pogba is more talented but he only turns it on when it suits him. He is without doubt the most infuriating player.
 

jsp

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Yep made a positive impact when he came on even if it was only for 5 minutes and fair play to Ole for subbing Bruno who'd totally dissapeared second half as he was marked out of the game.

I wonder if that Watford game after the break might be a game where we see him get a start in a midfield 2 to see what he can do.
 

Mr C

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it's awful management that we've stuck with the same midfield this season, it's been really poor.
 

jsp

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Stuck with the same midfield?

Think we've tried 7 different midfield combinations this season it's the one area where he is constantly messing about.

For me there's no answer with these players none of them are good enough to play the position at the very highest level so the players will need to change whoever is in charge going forward.
 

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