Chelsea Discussion 2022/23

jsp

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So many unreliable players in that squad you can’t count on any of them.

Mount losing form is a problem he’s normally one you can count on to be 7/10 in most games.

A test of the new owners/board nerve I think they’d be mad to sack Tuchel give him the time to fix it but right now they look like they’ll be in for a tough season.
 

Mr C

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The way Tuchel has been talking in the press, it's like he wanted sacking.
 

jsp

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The Athletic reporting that the atmosphere behind the scenes has been a problem he's not got on well with the new owners/management team that have come in. They're even saying that he'd have been sacked even if they won last night.

He wasn't happy that the signings dragged on as long as they did as he felt it would make the first few months of a season a complete write off.
 

IDFD

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Being reported that they want the Potter deal done today and he'll be in charge for the weekend.

£16m clause in his contract that they'll meet.

Based on how quick it's moving you've got to assume it was already in place before last night's game.
 

jsp

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Yeah sounds like it's been on the cards for a few weeks certainly doesn't sound like it's been a happy camp for a while.
 

Mr C

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Potter is alreday in London discussing it.

I thought Tuchel was unhappy, goes back to the time Roman got blown out.

Bet Auba's not too pleased
 

SuperRash

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Would be a huge step up for Potter and would be a great opportunity to really cement his growing reputation. On the flip side would be a huge blow to Brighton - he’s transformed into a very good team to watch.
 

Mr C

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It's a huge opportunity, but Chelsea is a bit of a poisoned chalice. And their new owners appear to have no idea what they're doing, as a United fan with the Glazers, I feel sorry for the Chelsea fans, that's how I feel about their owners!

*to note, generally I can't bear Chelsea fans......apart from the one I'm married to.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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I see #tucheliban is a thing on twitter. Do I even want to try and figure out what the hell that's about?

What an insane decision, especially as it was in the works for a while. Clearly Tuchel had thoughts about the recruitment over the summer that were at odds with Boehly's. I guess if you're putting up a couple of billion quid you can have a say in transfers, but before you go full FM, you should probably google how your manager transformed your new club and defer to his superior knowledge.

I don't see how Potter turns it down, but he probably should. He's not being successful at Brighton because of his tactical nous or genius managing alone. The conditions are there for him to work his magic, and those at Chelsea are vastly different.

Here's hoping Boehly runs them into the ground.
 

RVN

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I see #tucheliban is a thing on twitter. Do I even want to try and figure out what the hell that's about?

What an insane decision, especially as it was in the works for a while. Clearly Tuchel had thoughts about the recruitment over the summer that were at odds with Boehly's. I guess if you're putting up a couple of billion quid you can have a say in transfers, but before you go full FM, you should probably google how your manager transformed your new club and defer to his superior knowledge.

I don't see how Potter turns it down, but he probably should. He's not being successful at Brighton because of his tactical nous or genius managing alone. The conditions are there for him to work his magic, and those at Chelsea are vastly different.

Here's hoping Boehly runs them into the ground.
I totally agree, but I suppose it depends if Potter feels he will get another opportunity to manage a top 6 club.
 

jsp

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Potter has to take it the job is to big to turn down but he should be protecting himself financially.

Always happens when new owners come in the existing manager tends to not last to long I'm surprised they haven't given it time to settle down things must be really bad if they've canned him at this point.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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There’s no chance he turns it down because every manager has an ego and believes they can be the one to make it work. It’s why people still take the United job ROFL.

Realistically though, the only other top 6 job that might come available soon would be Spurs. Maybe Arsenal if it goes all Pete Tong and Arteta goes in the summer. Klopp and Pep aren’t going anywhere. ETH will get time.
 

jsp

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I think most managers come out the other side of Chelsea with their reputation still intact because everyone knows the score even if you do well eventually you get sacked because they've got a hire and fire culture.
 

jsp

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That is crazy talk if Emma Hayes wants to go into the men's game she'd need to prove herself at a lower level than the Chelsea job.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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Ooh...that's interesting. Why should Hayes go to the lower leagues to prove herself when she has proved herself at the top of the women's game? John Herdman went from a successful stint with the Canadian women's team to the men's team and only took them to their first world cup since 1986. He didn't need to go anywhere and prove himself.

Management is mostly a sales job. Can you sell your philosophy to the players/supporters/press/board and get them to commit to what you're expecting of them. That takes credibility. Right now, Hayes has it. If she goes to League 1 and does ok, does that give her more sway with premier league players? Is man management that different from woman management? I'd be fascinated to see her in charge of the mens team.
 

jsp

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Ooh...that's interesting. Why should Hayes go to the lower leagues to prove herself when she has proved herself at the top of the women's game? John Herdman went from a successful stint with the Canadian women's team to the men's team and only took them to their first world cup since 1986. He didn't need to go anywhere and prove himself.

Management is mostly a sales job. Can you sell your philosophy to the players/supporters/press/board and get them to commit to what you're expecting of them. That takes credibility. Right now, Hayes has it. If she goes to League 1 and does ok, does that give her more sway with premier league players? Is man management that different from woman management? I'd be fascinated to see her in charge of the mens team.

It's only a personal opinion but for me the men's game and the women's game are almost different sports due to the physical intensity the men can play at the game is a lot more compact and quicker with the growing trend to press. In women's football it's generally a bit slower with more space on the pitch to play in but technically it is highly skilled.

You mention football management being like a sales job and I get that you need players to buy into your ideas but a lot of that is done by players seeing the results. If your tactics don't get results and don't make them look good they aren't going to buy into it no matter how much charm and charisma you might have. Footballers are ruthless most of them make their mind up on a manager within a few training sessions.

Chelsea I think is the one top 10 jobs in world football so really only the best of the best should be getting a shot at it.

Hayes has done great things in the women's game but I think to jump to an elite level job in the men's game she should prove herself in the men's game not saying she has to go and work her way up right from the bottom but if she wants to make that crossover she should test herself at a Championship club first.
 

Cruella ne Ville

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It's only a personal opinion but for me the men's game and the women's game are almost different sports due to the physical intensity the men can play at the game is a lot more compact and quicker with the growing trend to press. In women's football it's generally a bit slower with more space on the pitch to play in but technically it is highly skilled.

You mention football management being like a sales job and I get that you need players to buy into your ideas but a lot of that is done by players seeing the results. If your tactics don't get results and don't make them look good they aren't going to buy into it no matter how much charm and charisma you might have. Footballers are ruthless most of them make their mind up on a manager within a few training sessions.

Chelsea I think is the one top 10 jobs in world football so really only the best of the best should be getting a shot at it.

Hayes has done great things in the women's game but I think to jump to an elite level job in the men's game she should prove herself in the men's game not saying she has to go and work her way up right from the bottom but if she wants to make that crossover she should test herself at a Championship club first.
What is she going to gain from going to a Championship club?

I think there's still enough misogyny in sport that would make it challenging for Hayes to be successful, but that's besides the point because no manner of experience can change that.

There are differences between men's and women's football, just as there is between La Liga or The Eredivisie and the Premier League, or the lower leagues and the top flight. Zidane took the top job in world football without paying his dues or getting lower league experience and did pretty well. Why? Because he had credibility from his time as a player which got him initial support.

I agree that ultimately success and what you do when players don't buy in is going to make or break your credibility. Take ETH for example. The first two matches clearly showed that his Dutch experience mattered naught. Small sample size, but it would appear that hauling them in on their day off and making them run (and running with them) bought him credibility, and coupled with a result v Liverpool has earned him the respect of the players. ETH hasn't done anything that Hayes couldn't have done.

How do we know that Potter is a better manager than Hayes? Hayes has challenged for the top honours in her game. Potter hasn't. I get Brighton is a different situation than Chelsea FC Women re: their relative standing in their leagues, but what has Potter done to earn that job that Hayes hasn't?
 

IDFD

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I don't believe anyone is seriously suggesting going from managing Chelsea women's to managing Chelsea men's team. Managing Chelsea women's team is akin to managing a league 2 side in terms of quality and stature of club. Just because it's got the Chelsea name doesn't make it the same level.

Phil Neville managed the England women's team. You wouldn't then go handing him the keys to Old Trafford.
 

jsp

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What is she going to gain from going to a Championship club?

I think there's still enough misogyny in sport that would make it challenging for Hayes to be successful, but that's besides the point because no manner of experience can change that.

There are differences between men's and women's football, just as there is between La Liga or The Eredivisie and the Premier League, or the lower leagues and the top flight. Zidane took the top job in world football without paying his dues or getting lower league experience and did pretty well. Why? Because he had credibility from his time as a player which got him initial support.

I agree that ultimately success and what you do when players don't buy in is going to make or break your credibility. Take ETH for example. The first two matches clearly showed that his Dutch experience mattered naught. Small sample size, but it would appear that hauling them in on their day off and making them run (and running with them) bought him credibility, and coupled with a result v Liverpool has earned him the respect of the players. ETH hasn't done anything that Hayes couldn't have done.

How do we know that Potter is a better manager than Hayes? Hayes has challenged for the top honours in her game. Potter hasn't. I get Brighton is a different situation than Chelsea FC Women re: their relative standing in their leagues, but what has Potter done to earn that job that Hayes hasn't?

Well she'd test out her methods in a male environment do her tactics work, can she get her message across and motivate her players, can she out think and out smart the managers at that level of the game. Can she make the split second decisions in front of 30,000 people rather than 3,000.

Zidane took that job initially on an interim role because he was the sporting director when they sacked their manager mid season.

We don't know that Potter is a better manager than Hayes but we do know that he's a very competent premier league manager having proven himself at a decent premier league club. I don't think it's a guarantee for success as it's a different environment going from a well run club that is currently scouting brilliant to a club that is in complete turmoil.
 

Mr C

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Phil Neville managed the England women's team. You wouldn't then go handing him the keys to Old Trafford.
He was crap and The football under him was attrocious and they should have won WC2019. I watched that tournament and we should have won it. To compare him to Hayes is a bit laughable.
Nonsense to say she can't do it just because she's a woman coaching women. They play lovely football.
I do agree that nobody will take the risk though
 

IDFD

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He was crap and The football under him was attrocious and they should have won WC2019. I watched that tournament and we should have won it. To compare him to Hayes is a bit laughable.
Nonsense to say she can't do it just because she's a woman coaching women. They play lovely football.
I do agree that nobody will take the risk though

No what is nonsense is trying to compare the equivalent to league 1 football too premiership football.

Should Mark White get the job? He's won in every league he's ever managed in.

Surely you can see that the premier League and women's premier League are two different beast?
 

RVN

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Potter has accepted the job. I was listening to a report about LA Dodgers and Boehly's ethos is that if you invest in us we will invest in you. The current manager at the Dodgers has been there for 7 years and in talks about a new 3-year contract, so if Potter performs well and continues the good relationship with the owner, then we could see a different culture at Chelsea regarding their manager.
 

Mr C

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Who has said womens football is the same as league 1? How on earth can that comparrison be verified? I'd love to read that report.

I think a good manager is a good manager, The dutch league isn't as good as the Prem, but ETH is doing ok. Kenny Daglish had never managed before and won the league. There are loads of examples of managers getting a chance and taking it.

I don't think the excuse, she's a woman and has only managed in the womans game is a valid reason. She shown she can coach to a top level. She is excellent when she does anaylsis. So she knows the game, and she has shown she can manage.

Like I said, I agree no club will be brave enough, but I think that is a fault in the mens game.

-----

Potter has taken has he? I thought they were still interviewing people.
Not sure it's a good move for him, some Chelsea fans yesterday on a phone in were likening it to Moyes taking over at united, as Potter hasn't won anything. Also they said he hasn't managed in European comps. Which is a bit harsh for me, Brighton play lovely stuff.
 

jsp

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If I'm totally honest league one is generous if you go by the size of the crowds and interest it's closer to league two/national league and honestly the worst side in league two would beat the England women's national team if they played.

In my opinion it's a huge gamble for a club the size of Chelsea to take I think if she seriously wants to make the move in to the men's game she should look to build her reputation in the men's game by taking jobs. Does she even want to go into the men's game she might be content being Chelsea Women's manager.

Ajax are a huge club get 40,000 for home games and he not only dominated his domestic league he also took them to very good results in Europe which is why Utd appointed him.

As for Potter their fans are clowns he has managed in Europe he was manager of a team in Sweden took them to the quarter finals of the Europa league before he came back to England.

Potter would probably prefer better circumstances but this chance might only come once so he has to take it and back himself to deliver because if he turns it down and things go pear shaped at Brighton it won't come again.
 

IDFD

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Who has said womens football is the same as league 1? How on earth can that comparrison be verified? I'd love to read that report.

I think a good manager is a good manager, The dutch league isn't as good as the Prem, but ETH is doing ok. Kenny Daglish had never managed before and won the league. There are loads of examples of managers getting a chance and taking it.

I don't think the excuse, she's a woman and has only managed in the womans game is a valid reason. She shown she can coach to a top level. She is excellent when she does anaylsis. So she knows the game, and she has shown she can manage.

Like I said, I agree no club will be brave enough, but I think that is a fault in the mens game.

-----

Potter has taken has he? I thought they were still interviewing people.
Not sure it's a good move for him, some Chelsea fans yesterday on a phone in were likening it to Moyes taking over at united, as Potter hasn't won anything. Also they said he hasn't managed in European comps. Which is a bit harsh for me, Brighton play lovely stuff.

League 1 was me being generous. The crowd sized, the budgets and the expectation are much lower in women's football than league 1.

If the Chelsea's woman's team player a league 1 side they'd lose by double digits. (The arsenal women's side just lost 5-0 to the Arsenal under 16's. The women's American team lost 4-0 to their under 15's) women's football isn't even slightly comparable to the men's game yet.

I want the women's game to improve and grow but there is no point pretending it's already on the same level.
 

Mr C

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I don't think I said it's the same level, women are less powerful. Technically, apart from the goalies, there isn't much difference. And the stadiums are pretty full but I'm not sure on the relevance.

None of those facts point to Hayes not being able to manage in the premier league.
 

jsp

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I don't think I said it's the same level, women are less powerful. Technically, apart from the goalies, there isn't much difference. And the stadiums are pretty full but I'm not sure on the relevance.

None of those facts point to Hayes not being able to manage in the premier league.

I'd say even technically there's still a gap between a top women's player and a league two player the standard of the women's game has improved massively in the last 10 years.

So to flip it on it's head other than the fact she's currently employed by Chelsea what qualifies her to manage their men's team?

Also, there's nothing to say that a top men's manager could do a good job in a women's team because the style of play is different and also the management of the group will be different. Like it or not groups of men will act in a different way to a group of women and will respond to different motivational methods.
 

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