Andre Onana | Match Discussion Thread 2023/24

I very much am paying attention. I've watched every game this season and I'm not seeing this keeper you two are seeing. Yes he's better than De Gea with his feet, but on the whole when it goes back to him he ends up in a bad mess with the ball going to a defender, sure, but usually in a bad position with no support, we lose the ball out of play and it's the same difference. Even his medium kicking is very bad, and he thinks he has two feet, but I don't see that either. He's just kicking the football with both feet and hoping it goes to one of our players.

Just think he's finding out the hard way like Ederson and Allison before him that what worked for them in Portugal and Italy re. kicking doesn't necessarily work in England, there's less margins for error for starters, and for Onana not playing in a settled side isn't helping either, he dinks it out to the left-back who wants it on his left foot, then the next week it's Dalot who wants it on his right, and it's the same with our wide-men, and he's not on the same wave-length as Hojlund yet either.

Be worried if there's no great improvement in his distribution this time next season after a full pre-season though.
 
Think the big thing with ETH is he was bought in to change the playing style of Utd move away from counter attack and into a possession based side but that means changing pretty much the entire squad as so many players are going to struggle to adapt to that new way of playing.

I think he's bought him because this is the way he wants his keeper to play but everyone needs to buy into playing that way or it won't work. There's no point kicking it long as he's got no one to go long to as none of the attackers are good in the air and most of the time you are just giving the opponent the ball back.

I think it's just something they need to persist with and get much better at. I only go back to Martinez because it was working a lot better in those early games especially away at Arsenal but since his injury we have had to adapt the way we do it because of the players he has.

Most of the time he has the ball at his feet he can't pick it up because it's from a back pass or a goal kick.
I think Shaw, Martinez and maybe Maguire could play this style with him, with a lot of practice. If this is the style we are trying to adopt then I'm wondering after all this time why nearly none of them can play it. I don't remember past teams having this much of a problem retaining possession or being completely dominated by visiting teams at OT. I don't think the entire team needs replaced either to use a pass based system. It really shouldn't , or the level of our players must be worryingly low.

Just think he's finding out the hard way like Ederson and Allison before him that what worked for them in Portugal and Italy re. kicking doesn't necessarily work in England, there's less margins for error for starters, and for Onana not playing in a settled side isn't helping either, he dinks it out to the left-back who wants it on his left foot, then the next week it's Dalot who wants it on his right, and it's the same with our wide-men, and he's not on the same wave-length as Hojlund yet either.

Be worried if there's no great improvement in his distribution this time next season after a full pre-season though.
Yeah I agree, our team is no doubt making him look worse than he is, and it's unfortunate. Again though, I can only call what I see. ETH needs to start making his signings show us what they are, not what they can be. Is it enough time yet? No it isn't I agree. He should be given at least until the end of the season then I can take another look.
 
I think Shaw, Martinez and maybe Maguire could play this style with him, with a lot of practice. If this is the style we are trying to adopt then I'm wondering after all this time why nearly none of them can play it. I don't remember past teams having this much of a problem retaining possession or being completely dominated by visiting teams at OT. I don't think the entire team needs replaced either to use a pass based system. It really shouldn't , or the level of our players must be worryingly low.

I think if they can't do it now they'll never be able to do it you can't change the way a player plays that radically you either can do it or you can't. It's why Pep was quick to bomb out loads of City players and why Spurs have ditched Dier so quickly as he's never going to be able to adapt to Ange-Ball.

Utd haven't really been able to do that and I think ETH has made a lot of concessions to his way of playing to try and work with what he's got.

I think it is worryingly low put them lot up for sale tomorrow and how many of them get snapped up by the current top 5? I don't think that many get picked up.
 
I think if they can't do it now they'll never be able to do it you can't change the way a player plays that radically you either can do it or you can't. It's why Pep was quick to bomb out loads of City players and why Spurs have ditched Dier so quickly as he's never going to be able to adapt to Ange-Ball.

Utd haven't really been able to do that and I think ETH has made a lot of concessions to his way of playing to try and work with what he's got.

I think it is worryingly low put them lot up for sale tomorrow and how many of them get snapped up by the current top 5? I don't think that many get picked up.

What our defenders? Probably all of them. Most of them would get a game at Arsenal for starters ....
 
I think if they can't do it now they'll never be able to do it you can't change the way a player plays that radically you either can do it or you can't. It's why Pep was quick to bomb out loads of City players and why Spurs have ditched Dier so quickly as he's never going to be able to adapt to Ange-Ball.

Utd haven't really been able to do that and I think ETH has made a lot of concessions to his way of playing to try and work with what he's got.

I think it is worryingly low put them lot up for sale tomorrow and how many of them get snapped up by the current top 5? I don't think that many get picked up.
I don't agree fully, I think you can teach players new styles, but I don't see the players train so I don't know which of them would be capable. It would be based on ability, if they're a good player they should be able to adapt somewhat, not just become totally unusable.
 
What our defenders? Probably all of them. Most of them would get a game at Arsenal for starters ....

The lot of them.

I reckon Arsenal would have Shaw as they don't really have a left back but not sure they'd go for anyone else but that's a discussion for another topic.
 
I don't agree fully, I think you can teach players new styles, but I don't see the players train so I don't know which of them would be capable. It would be based on ability, if they're a good player they should be able to adapt somewhat, not just become totally unusable.

I don't think you can improve their core skills much though.

You can teach them better places to stand to receive the ball or where to move the ball to which is tactics but I don't think you can massively improve their core skills.

First touch, passing, awareness of space and speed of decision making etc. By your early 20's you are probably as good as you are ever going to be at those sort of things and that is what I'm saying some of our players just aren't good enough at.

There's adapting to be ok at doing it which is what I think has happened but if you want to be "elite" at doing it you have to have the players who are fantastic on the ball. That is why I think Martinez is key to it because he is so much better than the other centre backs at being on the ball close to his own goal.
 
The lot of them.

I reckon Arsenal would have Shaw as they don't really have a left back but not sure they'd go for anyone else but that's a discussion for another topic.

Well that's me telt then :p
 
And yet you are still talking about how shit you think our defenders are at playing football, bloody liberties!
 
And yet you are still talking about how shit you think our defenders are at playing football, bloody liberties!

That's still linked to Onana though.

If we want to see him do the very best of his passing we need players who are better at receiving the ball under pressure.
 
If we had a functioning midfield for a prolonged period of time, and forwards that were making the right runs and making themselves available you might learn to appreciate how bloody good on the ball most of our defenders are, Till such time .....
 
I don't think you can improve their core skills much though.

You can teach them better places to stand to receive the ball or where to move the ball to which is tactics but I don't think you can massively improve their core skills.

First touch, passing, awareness of space and speed of decision making etc. By your early 20's you are probably as good as you are ever going to be at those sort of things and that is what I'm saying some of our players just aren't good enough at.

There's adapting to be ok at doing it which is what I think has happened but if you want to be "elite" at doing it you have to have the players who are fantastic on the ball. That is why I think Martinez is key to it because he is so much better than the other centre backs at being on the ball close to his own goal.
So without Martinez, Onana becomes a liability. Sounds like a plan. ETH genius again.
 
So without Martinez, Onana becomes a liability. Sounds like a plan. ETH genius again.

Well the idea is probably without Martinez the system only works at 60%, with him it's 80% and with him and another centre back coming in it'll work at 100%.

If we signed a keeper that played a more basic style then we never reach the stage where the "system" actually works.

I don't think he's become a liability at all he had a couple of terrible games in Europe there's no denying that but in the league he's been pretty steady. I would say that maybe someone needs a word with the scouting team and say how did they miss Vicario who looks a cracking keeper and cost Spurs less that half the Onana fee but that's one for another day.

I just feel with ETH it was a long term rebuild it was going to take 2 or 3 seasons to sort the squad out because it was a bloated mess and it would take that long because getting rid of current players is very tough. You are basically waiting for contracts to expire.

Obviously I'd hope that by now we'd be seeing much better performances and results and that might mean he runs out of time.
 
I really hope he does well long term but so far its not happened, just on the shot stopping alone he`s like a statue sometimes and isnt great on crosses. Our defence doesent help though and at the moment thats making him look worse.
 
I find it tough to really focus in on one player at the moment back to front the whole team looks a mess and it's really hard to see where the problem is.

I just hope once everyone is fit we can see what the "masterplan" with Ten Hag actually looks like and does Onana become less of an issue.

One thing a better drilled team would help is the ridiculous number of shots he faces in games and that isn't hit fault.
 
I find it tough to really focus in on one player at the moment back to front the whole team looks a mess and it's really hard to see where the problem is.

I just hope once everyone is fit we can see what the "masterplan" with Ten Hag actually looks like and does Onana become less of an issue.

One thing a better drilled team would help is the ridiculous number of shots he faces in games and that isn't hit fault.
Yes fair comment I know I keep harping on about it but our midfield needs urgent attention that will protect the defence and help create more chances up front, at the moment it’s chaotic.
 
Yes fair comment I know I keep harping on about it but our midfield needs urgent attention that will protect the defence and help create more chances up front, at the moment it’s chaotic.

I don't disagree but I would also say the centre back partnership needs sorting we can't keep changing that every week and adapting the way we play to who is available. He needs at least 3 that he can pick from that can play the way he wants to play.

Similar in midfield we can't keep flipping between Eriksen and McTominay because they are totally different players that mean playing a totally different way. Big thing I want to see in the second half of the season in terms of the midfield is what exactly the plan is with Mount because I just don't see him as a central midfield player.

The front 3 I think is starting to look a bit settled but it needs bolstering in the summer as we are so short of numbers up top.

Just think right through the squad we've still got to many players who force us to compromise the system when they play.
 
Well the idea is probably without Martinez the system only works at 60%, with him it's 80% and with him and another centre back coming in it'll work at 100%.

If we signed a keeper that played a more basic style then we never reach the stage where the "system" actually works.

I don't think he's become a liability at all he had a couple of terrible games in Europe there's no denying that but in the league he's been pretty steady. I would say that maybe someone needs a word with the scouting team and say how did they miss Vicario who looks a cracking keeper and cost Spurs less that half the Onana fee but that's one for another day.

I just feel with ETH it was a long term rebuild it was going to take 2 or 3 seasons to sort the squad out because it was a bloated mess and it would take that long because getting rid of current players is very tough. You are basically waiting for contracts to expire.

Obviously I'd hope that by now we'd be seeing much better performances and results and that might mean he runs out of time.
So an 80% functioning system, that includes only passes allowed to the centre backs. That seems like a very dodgy system. Surely you need the full backs to contribute too as that's where the passes usually go when a press comes straight at our centre backs, therfore those percentages don't work. You're trying to be too clever. Fact of the matter is right now the system is broken, the keeper is bad, and he's making error after error. We concede a goal most games.... you can't keep telling me about this phantom system that is never there. The players don't exist for it so it doesn't exist.
 
Dropped by Cameroon for their final group game which they won, puts them through to the next round.
 
I guess we shouldn’t read too much into being dropped by Cameroon, that’s a very fractious relationship there.

However, I did see one of the goals he conceded and it was a similar theme where he was probably a little bit too late to get down to a shot.

I’m interested to see what Bayindir is like against Newport. Granted not the greatest competition but let’s see how good he is with his feet. He was regarded as a pretty good shot stopper in Turkey.
 
He was dropped for the knockout game too.

They’re out and he’s on his way back to Manchester.
 
Got lucky with the end Martinez cleared off the line but I agree the goals aren’t on him.
 
I was looking at the Kilman goal replay and thought he could have done a little better.
 
He was lucky not to concede a penalty. He brings confusion to the defence and I think we should give Bayinder another chance. He is worse in kicking but he is a better keeper with the high balls too. Onana is like Barthez.
 
He has to save the second. It’s at him. He’s too flappy when the ball is in the box.

For the third I don’t blame him but it’s another one where he just doesn’t set himself in anticipation of a shot coming in.
 
I've watched the goals back.

First goal - it's a penalty there's nothing on him there.
Second goal - Kilman hits it into the ground from close range he makes himself big and it hits him then hits off Dalot. We'll never know if that deflection off Onana was enough to deflect the ball wide, it probably wasn't. Not sure what people want him to do.
Third goal - just gets done by Neto he's expecting the ball to be whipped far post which is where that ball should be going but Neto has managed to get it through Varane's legs and he's got no chance to react and get down.

On the rest of the game I thought his distribution was much improved especially his longer passing was finding the target more.

He made 1 mistake where he tried to come for a cross and didn't get there which luckily Martinez was able to clear but he did well coming for other crosses and dealing with them. Also, made a good "save" at the near post to stop a goal where the ball flicked off his head and span across the line rather than into the goal from close range.

I'd say 6/10 is pretty fair for last night.
 
I've watched the goals back.

First goal - it's a penalty there's nothing on him there.
Second goal - Kilman hits it into the ground from close range he makes himself big and it hits him then hits off Dalot. We'll never know if that deflection off Onana was enough to deflect the ball wide, it probably wasn't. Not sure what people want him to do.
Third goal - just gets done by Neto he's expecting the ball to be whipped far post which is where that ball should be going but Neto has managed to get it through Varane's legs and he's got no chance to react and get down.

On the rest of the game I thought his distribution was much improved especially his longer passing was finding the target more.

He made 1 mistake where he tried to come for a cross and didn't get there which luckily Martinez was able to clear but he did well coming for other crosses and dealing with them. Also, made a good "save" at the near post to stop a goal where the ball flicked off his head and span across the line rather than into the goal from close range.

I'd say 6/10 is pretty fair for last night.
He comes for the cross and gets his man and I thought he was lucky not to concede a penalty on that. I have not seen anything yet that makes his special.
 
He comes for the cross and gets his man and I thought he was lucky not to concede a penalty on that. I have not seen anything yet that makes his special.

I don't think it was a penalty but I've not really seen a proper replay, I just don't think those sort of challenges should be penalties. Works the other way to keepers shouldn't just get free kicks every time they're touched.

The massive uproar over the one earlier in the season probably makes people think it should be a penalty but I don't think those sort of collisions should be penalties unless you are seriously late and do something that could really hurt the opponent. There needs to be a certain level of rough and tumble allowed in the box.

He can be a bit rash at decisions to come for crosses he certainly got his judgement wrong on this one because he was nowhere near it.
 
I have had a few looks at it and we should have no complains if that was given as a penalty and the VAR would not overturn it. He does not get the ball and punches the Wolves Player.
 
I have had a few looks at it and we should have no complains if that was given as a penalty and the VAR would not overturn it. He does not get the ball and punches the Wolves Player.

But VAR checked it pretty quickly and didn't give it which sort of says it's a 50/50 call. This is where I have a massive issue with the way VAR works because way to much is put on the "on field" decision which means we still get lots of decisions which don't look right being given.

There are so many collisions between players going for the ball on set pieces and very rarely do any get called for fouls. The only time they give the foul is when your actions clearly stop a player from being able to reach the ball. Killman got to ball first and got his header away just before Onana gets to him he didn't lose out in anyway.

It isn't a penalty but it is a rash decision that he was lucky to not result in a goal.
 
But VAR checked it pretty quickly and didn't give it which sort of says it's a 50/50 call. This is where I have a massive issue with the way VAR works because way to much is put on the "on field" decision which means we still get lots of decisions which don't look right being given.

There are so many collisions between players going for the ball on set pieces and very rarely do any get called for fouls. The only time they give the foul is when your actions clearly stop a player from being able to reach the ball. Killman got to ball first and got his header away just before Onana gets to him he didn't lose out in anyway.

It isn't a penalty but it is a rash decision that he was lucky to not result in a goal.
It is like a late tackle. Players can play the ball but if late a foul is given. Onana takes his man out and VAR would not overturn if given. We were lucky it was not given.
 
It is like a late tackle. Players can play the ball but if late a foul is given. Onana takes his man out and VAR would not overturn if given. We were lucky it was not given.

How often is a late tackle when the player is trying to block a shot punished with a penalty if the attacker gets the shot away? A penalty is there to re-instate a lost opportunity to get a shot at goal.

Unless it's really dangerous and risks injury to the other player, they never put it back and to me rightly so.

I know the rules and the way they're applied mean refs can give a foul for pretty much anything I just don't think this challenge should ever be a penalty.
 
I've watched the goals back.

First goal - it's a penalty there's nothing on him there.
Second goal - Kilman hits it into the ground from close range he makes himself big and it hits him then hits off Dalot. We'll never know if that deflection off Onana was enough to deflect the ball wide, it probably wasn't. Not sure what people want him to do.
Third goal - just gets done by Neto he's expecting the ball to be whipped far post which is where that ball should be going but Neto has managed to get it through Varane's legs and he's got no chance to react and get down.

On the rest of the game I thought his distribution was much improved especially his longer passing was finding the target more.

He made 1 mistake where he tried to come for a cross and didn't get there which luckily Martinez was able to clear but he did well coming for other crosses and dealing with them. Also, made a good "save" at the near post to stop a goal where the ball flicked off his head and span across the line rather than into the goal from close range.

I'd say 6/10 is pretty fair for last night.

Produced the pass of the match, a 70/75 yarder straight to Hojlund who controlled it in an instance, it's the sort of stuff he used to do for Ajax, and they've obviously been practicing it, it was hardly oh look Hojlund is in space as he wasn't.

Not even sure that was a mistake, as long as the defenders are switched on it's fine, Schmeichel used to do it all the time, it's when goalies start coming out realise they are not getting it and trying to go back that causes confusion.
 

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