3-5-2/3-4-1-2 formation

RichH2016

Moderator
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
7,270
Age
32
I have to say... Fair play to Ole yesterday. He mixed things up and it worked. They got a good result on the road against a team who were above them going in to the game.

But now what? Does he stick with this formation?
 

boothstownred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
6,209
I have to say... Fair play to Ole yesterday. He mixed things up and it worked. They got a good result on the road against a team who were above them going in to the game.

But now what? Does he stick with this formation?
I think he has to stick with it, if for no other reason than to see how it works against a better team than Spurs.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
18,905
Next 6 games are Atalanta, City, Watford, Villareal, Chelsea, Arsenal

Apart from Watford see no reason for not using it in the other games think we’ve seen the 4-2-3-1 isn’t working and needs to be shelved for a bit. He’s in survival mode now where he needs results to keep the season alive.

I do think Cavani is vital to this system his work rate and hold up play is excellent but he can’t start all these games but we’ve got Rashford, Greenwood and Martial who could come in. They need to play the role the way he does.

Where does this formation change leave Sancho though?
 

RichH2016

Moderator
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
7,270
Age
32
Where does this formation change leave Sancho though?
And that's kind of the point I was going to get to. Where does it leave Sancho? Because if they aren't careful he could become another VdB. And this is why I still think a manager change will be needed. Maybe they can wait until the end of the season (I wouldn't but others would) but they are going to need to change. 5-3-2 is not the way a top club that wants to attack should play. United didn't really attack yesterday, they controlled things defensively and then used the 3 attacking players to create a little. But they didn't create a whole lot either. That was never the game plan yesterday.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
18,905
And that's kind of the point I was going to get to. Where does it leave Sancho? Because if they aren't careful he could become another VdB. And this is why I still think a manager change will be needed. Maybe they can wait until the end of the season (I wouldn't but others would) but they are going to need to change. 5-3-2 is not the way a top club that wants to attack should play. United didn't really attack yesterday, they controlled things defensively and then used the 3 attacking players to create a little. But they didn't create a whole lot either. That was never the game plan yesterday.

Well the system is clearly 3-4-1-2 Bruno stays up near the two strikers but essentially out on the field he’s got 7 defensive players and 3 attacking players.

His problem is his attacking players don’t/can’t work hard enough to fit them all into the side so in a 4-2-3-1 we become very stretched and everyone becomes very isolated as we struggle to really pen our opponent in. In that system you can’t play Ronaldo as the centre forward but I think you can play Cavani or Greenwood. It feels like he’s got to play 2 up front now which wasn’t the plan before we signed Ronaldo.

If there are games where he needs to rest Bruno he could switch to 3-4-3 use players like Rashford and Sancho off the 1 striker this is often how Chelsea play it.

Where I see the flaw in this system for us is can Shaw and AWB really create enough chances in the game to play as wing backs. Chelsea get a lot of goals from those positions from James/Alonso/Chilwell.

Also, if you concede first what do you do?
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
7,890
This season he has to use it. Summer, buy a midfield and revert to get the attackers back on the pitch
 

RichH2016

Moderator
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
7,270
Age
32
His problem is his attacking players don’t/can’t work hard enough to fit them all into the side so in a 4-2-3-1 we become very stretched and everyone becomes very isolated as we struggle to really pen our opponent in.
See I don't actually agree. You're telling me that Greenwood absolutely can not press? Sancho can because he did at Dortmund. Rashford is young with energy. These players (minus Ronaldo) can be taught to press. But united don't seem to work on it. They don't do it at the right moments. They don't do it in packs. Individuals press without doing it as a unit.

If Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho can't press because they don't have the hunger or the appetite to then move on from them. The one thing every single top player should do is work hard.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
18,905
See I don't actually agree. You're telling me that Greenwood absolutely can not press? Sancho can because he did at Dortmund. Rashford is young with energy. These players (minus Ronaldo) can be taught to press. But united don't seem to work on it. They don't do it at the right moments. They don't do it in packs. Individuals press without doing it as a unit.

If Greenwood, Rashford and Sancho can't press because they don't have the hunger or the appetite to then move on from them. The one thing every single top player should do is work hard.

Pressing is not just forwards it the whole team that needs to do it that means you need defenders who want to get up into the opposition half and a keeper who will also play like a sweeper.

I’m not saying they can’t do it but we know Ronaldo can’t and when one person doesn’t do it the whole press is weakened. The younger players probably need some coaching on how to do it effectively as there’s no reason why they can’t do it.

I think what we’ve seen is that Ole isn’t a manager that wants to press though in 3 years we’ve never really been a pressing side so don’t really see us starting now. It’s more likely we will go back to sitting off any trying to break on the opponent.
 

RichH2016

Moderator
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
7,270
Age
32
I think what we’ve seen is that Ole isn’t a manager that wants to press though in 3 years we’ve never really been a pressing side so don’t really see us starting now. It’s more likely we will go back to sitting off any trying to break on the opponent.
And I agree with you but then this year he seems to have started this mild press?
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
18,905
And I agree with you but then this year he seems to have started this mild press?

I dunno felt like against Liverpool we just wanted a fast start maybe force a mistake we got that early chance with Bruno and maybe got a bit over excited and we got caught out and people jumped on the topic as it was a perfect example of how not to press. After that we gift them a second goal through indecision and the third is a massive slice of luck and by then heads are gone game over. Against Leicester it was just players low on confidence making mistakes and Utd falling into a trap laid by Leicester by playing out from the back.

The issue really was in that 4-2-3-1 shape how stretched we were as a team the gaps between defence and attack where huge and teams just picked their way through us so easily. That combined with a number of players being out of form led to some shocking performances.

The half arsed press is something we’ve done throughout it’s never been a co-ordinated tactic but it’s something you have to try and do if the opponent has the ball.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
9,035
Age
34
Bruno scores that one on one and it's a different game and Ole looks to have got things spot on
 

Sideshow Bob

Avatar & New Members Forum Mod
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
39,890
Bruno scores that one on one and it's a different game and Ole looks to have got things spot on
Do you genuinely believe that? Teams have been creating chances for fun and United have kept 1 clean sheet in 20 games.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
9,035
Age
34
Yeah I believe that. We wanted the quick start get ahead and sit back and play on the counter.
 

IDFD

Moderator
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
9,035
Age
34
We all know goals change games. You're suggesting Bruno scores in the 5th minute nothing else in the game changes? United can't sit deep and play on the counter?
 

Sideshow Bob

Avatar & New Members Forum Mod
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
39,890
Yes, but it would have had little difference against Liverpool given United’s recent form and how Solskjaer had set up the team. I’m genuinely staggered that anyone would think Bruno scoring earlier would have changed the outcome. I’m sat on the sofa after eating a lovely steak genuinely shaking my head.
 

jsp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
18,905
Hard to see us sitting back and keeping out a side as good as Liverpool but obviously we probably wouldn’t have got tonked if we we scored first, that said Spurs last season we went 1-0 up after a few minutes and totally fell apart. We also scored first vs Leicester then let in 4 so this side certainly has it in the locker especially with the current confidence levels.

Could even argue yesterday we maybe got lucky going in at half time 1 up as Davies took that header off Romero’s head.
 

Mr C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
7,890
Yeah, Liverpool we're all over us, poor team selection and tactics. We were going to get ripped apart regardless. It was totally embarrassing. Bruno scores or not, Liverpool didn't even get out of second gear.

Ole has fouled up his team selection and tactics all season until yesterday
 

nonewname

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
84
At this point it seems like the best set up with the players we have so why not
If it works out and by christmas we are near top of the league and safely through cl group then no one cares"its not the utd way"
If it doesnt then at least he tried something different
 

SuperRash

Moderator
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
5,848
Age
34
A crushing defeat, followed by a successful change of formation, all leading to a Premier League title. This is going to be a great season. :)
 

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
or Log in using
Don't have an account? Register now
Top